Rifle companions for C&B revolvers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
BCRider

BCRider

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
7,853
Location
Pacific North"Wet" Coast of Canada
This is an old idea for cartridge shooters. The idea that a handgun and rifle/carbine can share ammo. We see examples in both revolver and lever rifles as well as semi autos and semi carbines.

But what about muzzle loader pairs? As suggested in another thread wouldn't it be nice to share a supply of round ball between a revolver and a cap or flint rifle?

With .36cal revolvers we are looking at a .375 to .380 round ball to shave the proper amount during loading. Using the same ball with a patch would require a bore of around .380to .385. Does anyone make barrels of this sort with a suitable twist rate for PRB?

Looking at the .44 option we've got .454 to .457 as the most popular sizes for use in C&B revolvers. So to use the same size balls with a patch would suggest a .462 to .467 bore. Again do we know of anyone with such a size barrel in a suitable twist rate?

Or do folks that shoot black powder muzzle loaders for fun not shoot revolvers as well? Or do we all just accept that we need separate stocks of ball for hand and long guns?
 
Uberti makes the 1858 carbine. If you have an Uberti pistol you could swap cylinders as well!

I've looked around a bit at custom barrels and it is possible to get a barrel made to the caliber. Of course weight comes into play all depending on the stock you are putting it into, mine being 15/16". I figured to help with weight I'd have the barrel maybe 20" and possibly octagon to round as well as I'd prefer to keep the weight similar (~7.5 lbs) as it is in .50 cal.
 
Something else I've looked at is Pietta carbine barrels for their Colt models. I think they are about 12", and if you get a model that accepts a stock you have a nice shorty! A '61 like that might make a nice little small game getter!
 
We don't need rifles with smaller bores, we need revolvers with bigger ones! It would be awesome to have a .50 caliber revolver no bigger than a Dragoon or Walker, without spending custom Old Army money.

I do have .54 caliber pistols to go with my rifles but they are single shots. Number 2 should be arriving today. :D
 
I'd be all over a .50 cal pistol if it were reasonably priced!

And then I'd want to see a .54 cal made to give me the excuse to get a .54 cal barrel, which I'm already considering anyway!
 
Ever wonder why the original Colt revolvers were provided with a mold?

The easy way to share lead between your revolver and rifle is the way it was done in the old days. You carried a bag of lead shot and a bullet mold. Campfire activity at night was not just fartin' beans and telling stories. That fire provided a place to turn lead shot into whatever you needed tomorrow, or to change those .36 caliber balls into conicals for your Sharps or vice-versa. Add a shotgun to the mix and carry a bag-o-shot for it and you're all set.


Isn't it the movie "Patriot" where Mel Gibson melts his dead son's toy lead soldier over a campfire and casts the musket ball he uses to shoot the Brisith Officer responsible? Great scene.



Willie

.
 
I've been happy pairing various Pietta and others .44 cal bp revolvers (e.g. Remmie, Le Mat, Walker, etc.) with a shoulder-stocked 12" Remmie revolver. While not historically accurate as far as the CAS crowd is concerned, it is accurate and will have to do until I can get an Uberti revolver carbine.
 
Last edited:
Excellent movie, and it indeed is.

If a .50 or even a .54 cal revolver were to be made would you want it the size of an 1858/1860 or like a Walker? With the size of the projectile and whatnot, and being that I've typically got hunting on my mind, I'd think I'd want a nice size powder charge to go along with it. 9" of barrel might work as an option, but 7 1/2-8" of barrel is fairly large. 6" seems about ideal for a woods gun. I wonder have large the gun would be if a .54 cal were given 5 chambers and a stout enough charge capability...
 
The bummer on going with anything bigger than a .45 is that while the cylinders of the Dragoon and Walker are massive in diameter, the chambers are very close to the outside edge. Too much space taken up by the arbor.
 
Normally the percussion pistols are matched with a lever action rifle in the same time era. ie: 1851/1860 vintage pistols with a 44/40 Henry or percussion rifle with a pair of single shot percussion pistols in the same caliber.

I stretched that a bit and shoot an 1866 clone, in 44-40, with my 1860 C B Revolvers
 
The thread was aimed at using round balls for both long gun and revolver, but what about the R.E.A.L bullet by Lee. My ROA shoots them real nice and the bullet must of been designed for rifles or at least the name suggest the bullet be loaded from the muzzle.
 
Yeah, the idea is to get by with the one size round ball for various styles of muzzle loaders.

The R.E.A.L. won't work in this case. Or rather I should say that it would require a R.E.A.L. that is sized to work with the .44 C&B revolvers. Then the companion long rifle would need to be the same bore size as the handguns because the R.E.A.L. doesn't use a patch. So it would end up being a dedicated R.E.A.L. gun or the shooter would then need a .440 size supply of balls for the rifle to use it with patches.

So either way we're limited to the ammo or back to one size R.E.A.L. and two sizes of round ball.

Strawhat, I'm afraid I'm new enough to all this shooting hobby that I've not yet run into that rifle. So what is it please?
 
There are people who use the .45 cal REAL in their ROA's. It ought to work in a .44 (.45) cal pistol I'd think, though their chambers are slightly smaller. Maybe it would just take a little more effort to seat?
 
I originally tried to match things up - I have a couple of things in .54 - but once I started casting that kind of went out the window. Now I just try to keep a couple of range visits worth for each caliber and when it starts getting kind of low I make more. On the plus side once you've given up if you run into some cool old gun in some weird caliber you just shrug your shoulders and get Jeff Tanner to mail you the mold and you're done.
 
I don't know where my head was when I posted about the REAL slugs above. OF COURSE they would fit in both a .45Cal muzzle loading rifle as well as in the .44 caliber C&B's.

I guess it would come down to how hard they are to seat and if the long shape of them will fit into the loading arch of the pistol. Otherwise an external press could be used.

For those that use the REAL's just how tough are they to start when pushing down a front end of a rifle bore? And what do you use for lube/cleaner to ease the fouling stickiness?

I'm also wondering now if a conical as typically used for C&B's would load and stabilize decently in a rifle? Not a bullet I'd want to use for hunting other than perhaps small game. But for target or casual match shooting would the short and light conical grab and ride the rifling well? I guess I'm more worried about them sticking in the barrel fouling if there isn't any water content like I use currently on my patches via the Ballistol and water Moose Milk mix.
 
The REALs I have didn't get filled out when cast as they aren't a true .517", but are .510" at their largest band, and it takes a minor amount of effort to get the band engraved. At .517" I'd assume it's just a little more effort since the band width is minimal. Once started it went down easy.

I'm not sure how a pistol conical would do in a rifle. If it were a shallow groove barrel maybe it might work with a wad. But I'd guess it would take some effort to get it down the bore.
 
I used my excess Gatofeo lube that I poured into SWMBO's soap mold and cut into squares. But it may not be as hard as optimal. It seems to work though. I lube all of my stuff with it.
 
I've considered something like that with a heavier (255-270 grn) bullet I'll have Accurate Molds make for my ROA (dropping at .455") and resizing it to work in a typical sabot to use through my .50 cal Lyman's Deerstalker.
 
I cast and use the 45cal, 200 grain R.E.A.L in my ROA. They load with moderate pressure applied and have clearance in the loading arch of the Ruger, don't fit under in the 1860. I have a Cherokee rifle in 45 also but have not, to date, tried the bullet.
The R.E.A.L in my Ruger is not as accurate as a rb, at least not for me, but I am nit picking in that respect.
Lee makes the R.E.A.L in two calibers, four weights. Lees description says the "bands of the bullet are designed thin to allow fitting and conforming to the different bore sizes found in 45 and 50 calibers. Of course those reading this know that R.E.A.L is an acronym
that doesn't apply to revolve use.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Ball sizing between revolver and single/double shot pistol.
Replies
4
Views
631
arcticap
arcticap
R
  • Locked
.50 t/c SBR ( Percussion canoe-gun )
Replies
13
Views
796
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Malachi Leviticus Blue
I
  • Locked
Flintlock as a hunting tool (T/C Firestorm?)
Replies
7
Views
1K
Poodleshooter
P
Dave Markowitz
  • Locked
Which parts break on cap and ball revolvers?
Replies
16
Views
1K
Skinny 1950
S
S
  • Locked
Zouave rifle suggestions?
Replies
9
Views
2K
Sam1911
S
Back
Top