rifle for my son
- Thread starter beeb173
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WardenWolf
member
Ruger, I know, makes a 7.62x39 version of their M77 Hawkeye rifles. You can always plug it to single shot if that's what you need. It's not in that price range, though.
that's an option. thanks.
Kachok
Member
Are you looking for a hunting rifle? If so skip the SKS they have some pretty crappy accuracy in general. If you need a low recoil rifle there are other good ones out there.
WardenWolf
member
There's also the Savage Model 10. Not a wood stock, but that can be fixed with a good aftermarket from Boyd's. It'd be more accurate than a Ruger, too.
The one HUGE downside to the SKS is that it's difficult to scope it. If you do go the SKS route, choose carefully because SKS's vary widely in quality and condition. I'd say try to get either a Romanian or Russian for accuracy. Romanian stuff can be just as good as Russian, sometimes better because it was produced later and on better machinery. The Romanian ones often don't have the nicest wood, though sometimes you'll find one that looks as good as it shoots.
i'm looking for a plinking rifle that could be used on deer. .223 and 357/38 special are also options but ideally i'd like the Russian round.
Kachok
Member
Yeah I would opt for the 7.62x39 too given those options seeing as deer are on the menu, In your price range there is only one option on the new market that is the handi-rifle, I have never owned one so I cannot vouch for them personally but there are plenty of people on here who have.
Sav .250
Member
I`d go with a lever in say 30-30. Just load one shot at a time. later on, load it up. No need to buy another weapon.
KansasSasquatch
Member
That would be my suggestion too. There's also plenty of decent used bolt actions rifles in that price range. Does it HAVE to be a wood stock? These days it seems wood adds $100-300 dollars to a rifles price.
The Chinese made a dandy bolt gun that looked like a Mauser 98 in 7.62x39mm. Not sure how many of those are floating around but I suspect one comes up for sale on occasion.
Just what you are looking for is out there... its in New Zealand... Found that with a google search. Just do some digging you will find what you want eventually.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f13/norinco-7-62x39-bolt-action-f-s-5475/
Just what you are looking for is out there... its in New Zealand... Found that with a google search. Just do some digging you will find what you want eventually.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f13/norinco-7-62x39-bolt-action-f-s-5475/
WardenWolf
member
Ah yes, there's also the Zastava Mini Mauser in 7.62x39.
http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m85-...her-rifle,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-60283.html
That's more in your price range, and I think it'll be exactly what you want, if you can stand the Mannlicher stock.
http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-m85-...her-rifle,-cai-yugo-import.-new.-p-60283.html
That's more in your price range, and I think it'll be exactly what you want, if you can stand the Mannlicher stock.
adelbridge
Member
B30139 7.62X39 RUSSIAN
CAI is the importer of Mini Mausers. $399 Monte Carlo stock. I have a back order in on some, hopefully they show up soon.
You could also go T/C Encore for a true single shot but it will cost you more than double your budget
CAI is the importer of Mini Mausers. $399 Monte Carlo stock. I have a back order in on some, hopefully they show up soon.
You could also go T/C Encore for a true single shot but it will cost you more than double your budget
30/30 isn't cheap enough for plinking imo. thanks though.
BCRider
Member
I'm guessing that you want to use cheap milsurp ammo. Just be aware that the TRUE reason for the poor accuracy of milsurp rifles isn't the rifle itself but the inconsistent ammo.
How will you teach your son to shoot tight accurate groups if the ammo itself will only provide at best 8 inch groups at 100?
To save money on ammo AND provide the sort of accuracy that most of us desire I'd suggest that you get into reloading. I can reload .30-30 ammo for about 30 to 35 cents a round even up here in Canada where everything gun related costs more than in the US. And those rounds are as consistent or more consistent than factory ammo. This provides me with consistent shooting ammo that will truly deliver group sizes that are limited by my shooting rather than the ammo's performance.
A compact and simple reloading setup can be put together for around $200 and it'll all fit into a medium size storage tote when not being used. So all in all it'll cost you more to get started in reloading. And even with reloading you may find that milsurp is still a little cheaper. But the improvement in accuracy given by reloads will more than justify the trouble and expense.
Otherwise once the results are down to about 8'ish inch groups you won't know if you and your son are accurate shooters or that your performances are being masked by the poor ammo.
Here's an example of milsurp ammo performance. A year back I got a couple of Mosin Nagant rifles and a SPAM can of surplus ammo. The best I could manage at 100 yards were 8 to 10 inch groups with occasinal flyers out wider than that.
A couple of weeks back I finally got around to trying some Privi Partizan ammo and the groups immediately shrunk to 4'ish inch. Which for me and my old guy eyes using combat iron sights is about as good as I can get. Obviously if I'd had a scoped rifle this would have been even more of a dramatic change. Because of changes in this stuff are not linear even with a scope I'd be likely to only see 6 inch groups with the milsurp where we know that with good ammo something more down around 1 to 1.5 inch for 100 yards is standard.
So my advice is to start by figuring out an alternative ammo to the milsurp junk if you want to see your son truly perform as best he's able. And even for plinking if you want to cut ammo costs I'd say ditch the milsurp option and go with a nice .22 bolt gun. After all, rabbit stew is still game dining....
How will you teach your son to shoot tight accurate groups if the ammo itself will only provide at best 8 inch groups at 100?
To save money on ammo AND provide the sort of accuracy that most of us desire I'd suggest that you get into reloading. I can reload .30-30 ammo for about 30 to 35 cents a round even up here in Canada where everything gun related costs more than in the US. And those rounds are as consistent or more consistent than factory ammo. This provides me with consistent shooting ammo that will truly deliver group sizes that are limited by my shooting rather than the ammo's performance.
A compact and simple reloading setup can be put together for around $200 and it'll all fit into a medium size storage tote when not being used. So all in all it'll cost you more to get started in reloading. And even with reloading you may find that milsurp is still a little cheaper. But the improvement in accuracy given by reloads will more than justify the trouble and expense.
Otherwise once the results are down to about 8'ish inch groups you won't know if you and your son are accurate shooters or that your performances are being masked by the poor ammo.
Here's an example of milsurp ammo performance. A year back I got a couple of Mosin Nagant rifles and a SPAM can of surplus ammo. The best I could manage at 100 yards were 8 to 10 inch groups with occasinal flyers out wider than that.
A couple of weeks back I finally got around to trying some Privi Partizan ammo and the groups immediately shrunk to 4'ish inch. Which for me and my old guy eyes using combat iron sights is about as good as I can get. Obviously if I'd had a scoped rifle this would have been even more of a dramatic change. Because of changes in this stuff are not linear even with a scope I'd be likely to only see 6 inch groups with the milsurp where we know that with good ammo something more down around 1 to 1.5 inch for 100 yards is standard.
So my advice is to start by figuring out an alternative ammo to the milsurp junk if you want to see your son truly perform as best he's able. And even for plinking if you want to cut ammo costs I'd say ditch the milsurp option and go with a nice .22 bolt gun. After all, rabbit stew is still game dining....
Kachok
Member
True enough, pinking with low end 7.62x39 is about like pinking with buckshot they both are horribly inaccurate, that is why I opted not to buy the CZ by time I got quality ammo for the 7.62x39 it cost about as much as 6.5x55 ($13 a box) and at the range or in the field the Ruskie could not hold a shadow to the Swede in it's wildest dream, I have not regretted the Tikka 6.5x55 for a second, that turned out to be the most accurate rifle I have ever owned and a darn near perfect hunting rifle.
WardenWolf
member
Don't knock low-end 7.62x39. You can still get acceptable groups out of cheap ammo, as long as you buy the better cheap ammo like Silver or Brown Bear. Even black-box Wolf isn't bad. The Wolf Military Classic ammo is really low-end, though, and should be avoided.
Scooter22
Member
THe Bear line of ammo is very good. It shoots as well as "white box" US stuff. It looks like you want to use cheaper brands for plinking. One problem you may find with sporting guns shooting the surplus and Russian ammo is the hard primers. IIRC this was a big problem with the Handi Rifles and a couple other brands. If you decide on a gun google the reliability with cheap and surplus ammo. One example is my Mini-30. It has the heavy Wilson hammer spring installed but the Tula ammo from Walmart only fires 50% on the first try. US, Bear and Russian white box is 100%. Wolf is iffy.
denton
Member
There is a little different alternative that you might consider if you handload, or maybe even if you don't.
Savage and Stevens made some bolt action 30-30 rifles, up until about the 1980s. One model was the Savage 340. I have one of those. It's a great little rifle.
Shooting cast and gas checked 175 grain flat point bullets at 1900 FPS is pretty cheap. I get my bullets for $.13, use about $.07 worth of powder, plus a primer. That particular combination has a reputation for being very effective against deer.
The rifle was made to sell for $99.95 back in the day. It was the less expensive alternative for those who couldn't afford the more expensive lever action. Now a used one is about twice that.
Personally, I'd be hesitant to get something chambered in 7.62x39. Commercial ammo uses 123 grain bullets, which are light for deer. I think you'd be better off with a 30-30 or a downloaded 308. You can work with bullet weights that are more appropriate for your application, and in the case of the 308, you can load to full power as your shooter grows. JMO.
Savage and Stevens made some bolt action 30-30 rifles, up until about the 1980s. One model was the Savage 340. I have one of those. It's a great little rifle.
Shooting cast and gas checked 175 grain flat point bullets at 1900 FPS is pretty cheap. I get my bullets for $.13, use about $.07 worth of powder, plus a primer. That particular combination has a reputation for being very effective against deer.
The rifle was made to sell for $99.95 back in the day. It was the less expensive alternative for those who couldn't afford the more expensive lever action. Now a used one is about twice that.
Personally, I'd be hesitant to get something chambered in 7.62x39. Commercial ammo uses 123 grain bullets, which are light for deer. I think you'd be better off with a 30-30 or a downloaded 308. You can work with bullet weights that are more appropriate for your application, and in the case of the 308, you can load to full power as your shooter grows. JMO.
moxie
Member
If 123 grain bullets are light for deer, tell that to the thousands of deer and black bear taken every year with 100 gr. .243s.
The .243 is a good option too.
The Savage Axis can be had in either .243 or 7.62x39. Both good choices for a bit over $300. Used probably less.
The .243 is a good option too.
The Savage Axis can be had in either .243 or 7.62x39. Both good choices for a bit over $300. Used probably less.
Kachok
Member
OK here is the down low on the 7.62x39 for deer.
Yes the 123-125gr bullets are a tad light (low Sectional Density or SD) but as long as they are well constructed they should surpass the minimums of penetration for ethical kills, which ones are constructed well enough? That is a tough one, too many opinions and too little hard data to comment on each and every one but I would not hesitate to use 125gr Core-Lokts or 123gr TSX, if you take up handloading there is a 123gr Hot Core, 123gr Pro Hunter, and a 123gr SST for a .311 caliber that have a good reputation too.
The 150gr class is simply a better choice still if you can find some, but you are REAL limited in bullet selection, and it is more pricy when you do, the only one I would use is the Cor-Bon 150gr and it costs more then what I paid for my last box of 270 WSM. Not a problem if you roll your own but if you could do that you would not need a 7.62x39.
With the right bullet the 7.62x39 can be used for any game you would hunt with a 150gr 30-30 but as you can see that is nowhere near as easy as some make it sound.
A 243 or 6.5x55 make a much more versatile shooting/hunting cartridge and you can get the respectable Prvi stuff for $13 a box, yeah that is more then the $5.99 for el-chepo 7.62x39 FMJs but if he will be shooting for accuracy there is no comparison. Not trying to change your mind just showing you another prospective. For simple budget plinking nothing in the world can touch a 22LR.
Yes the 123-125gr bullets are a tad light (low Sectional Density or SD) but as long as they are well constructed they should surpass the minimums of penetration for ethical kills, which ones are constructed well enough? That is a tough one, too many opinions and too little hard data to comment on each and every one but I would not hesitate to use 125gr Core-Lokts or 123gr TSX, if you take up handloading there is a 123gr Hot Core, 123gr Pro Hunter, and a 123gr SST for a .311 caliber that have a good reputation too.
The 150gr class is simply a better choice still if you can find some, but you are REAL limited in bullet selection, and it is more pricy when you do, the only one I would use is the Cor-Bon 150gr and it costs more then what I paid for my last box of 270 WSM. Not a problem if you roll your own but if you could do that you would not need a 7.62x39.
With the right bullet the 7.62x39 can be used for any game you would hunt with a 150gr 30-30 but as you can see that is nowhere near as easy as some make it sound.
A 243 or 6.5x55 make a much more versatile shooting/hunting cartridge and you can get the respectable Prvi stuff for $13 a box, yeah that is more then the $5.99 for el-chepo 7.62x39 FMJs but if he will be shooting for accuracy there is no comparison. Not trying to change your mind just showing you another prospective. For simple budget plinking nothing in the world can touch a 22LR.
dprice3844444
member
http://www.lowpriceguns.com/product.php_365355 rossi single shot
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