Rifle optics: a blue collar spending perspective for cost / benefit

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

but if it works for your task,

Makes me feel like a sniper. It works very well

sarcasm

 

[9x56MS]

My eyesight used to be excellent, well above average as a young man. Since my late 40s it has deteriorated quite markedly, both farsightedness and astigmatism having reared their dual heads. I can drive a car without glasses, and read without my cheaters in outdoor light, but I can't shoot very well anymore with normal open rifle sights -- the front sight won't properly focus without a corrective lens/aperture such as that shown in my avatar at left.

Some telescopic sights present problems for me too. Unless its eyepiece focus has a large enough adjustment range, the reticle doesn't sharply resolve for me.

When I look through an electronic sight, the red dot looks like a nuclear trefoil:

View attachment 1203004

I can still determine the center, but it's hardly optimal.

I recently bought a Primary Arms 1x prism sight with an ACSS reticle that I can just barely focus by positioning the sight very close to my eye and cranking the focus ring all the way in. I like it.

I've also recently been experimenting with a cheap ($100), heavy Monstrum 4x fixed-power compact scope that also features an illuminated ACSS reticle. Rather surprisingly, I can clearly resolve it's reticle very easily within a fairly large eyebox. An optician could probably tell me what's going on here; all that I will say is that a reticle I can clearly resolve is my first priority with any optical sight.

As my eyesight has deteriorated, I've been growing quite fond of older, low-magnification fixed-power telescopic sights. Often the simple post or crosshair reticles resolve quite well with my eyes. The glass and coating quality back in the 1940's-60s doesn't compare to the present state of the art, the W&E adjustment usually isn't as positive and older scopes are notorious for fogging. However, those that have been well-cared for are still a big improvement on iron sights. Plus they don't cost very much on the used market.

View attachment 1203006

I'm not sure what this has to do with money spent on optics, except that unless eye surgery can improve things I'm inclined to stay near the cheap end of the spectrum.

Come on now, you can’t post a picture of lovelies like those without the details, models, calibers, scopes?

 

[d2wing]

I had a rifle with a Simmons scope on it that I bought used. It seemed ok so I used it that way. Until I saw the biggest buck ever and missed it. I took a few shots as it wondered around
in the woods. Finally it took off. I rarely miss anything I shoot at and normally that would be an easy shot. The scope failed. I only had one day to hunt so I shot a doe later. My nephews son shot it the next day from my stand. It was his first deer and it was bigger than anything I had ever shot and I have shot some nice ones. Moral, don't buy cheap scopes. You might be able to see ok but plastic internals are at some point going to let you down.

 

[The Happy Kaboomer]

Expensive scopes are a hard pill to swallow. IMO, for hunting scopes, diminishing returns start around $500 and really level out around $1000. For PRS or other longer range stuff this can be adjusted.

I just bought two $1500 Browning 1885s. One is a 270 and the other is a 454 Casull. I scoped the 270 with a $500 Leupold 2.5-8x36. It is a lightweight svelt looking scope and doesn’t take too much away from the traditional looks of the octagon barrel 1885. I haven’t decided on the 454 yet but will probably use a Leupold VX-Freedom 2-7x33 that I already own. Lightweight and trim like the aforementioned VX-3 but half the cost. The 454 has shorter range than the 270 and IMO just doesn’t need a lot of scope.

There was no way I was going to pay another $3000 to scope these rifles. Maybe another $1500 but as it is I think I will do fine with what I got. Good glass has become marginally less expensive while good rifles have become much much more expensive. The axiom of “pay as much as you paid for your rifle” may have been good advice 30 years ago but today, not so much.

I totally disagree. Cheap scopes(and binoculars)may work well in the sunshine. But at pre dawn and post dusk they suck. I only use Meopta/Leupold Vx III's and Swarovski. And I will tell you that Swarovski Z5's and up will allow you to to use every minute of legal shooting light. Our legal times for deer are 1 hr before sunrise to 1 hr after sunset. Cheap glass just won't cut it.

 

[Skylerbone]

Sure, I can - I have a credit card.

I, to my great delight, have none. My sole card is a debit linked to my checking account. Does that make me frugal? In a manner of speaking I suppose. I buy nice things if I have the money or I wait until the money is there.

I don’t have that $800/mo car payment either, just an old Ford that suits my needs and has traveled from California to Maine, and Florida to Canada. Bought used. Paid cash. Sole issue is a dead battery in one of the TPS units that needs addressed. Oh, needs washer fluid as well. Picture from this afternoon.



Now my biggest regret in spending has always been firearms related. I buy cheap rifles and inexpensive scopes. Lately I’ve culled a good number in an earnest effort to correct this lifetime misstep. The plan is to have a few nice rifles suited to my purposes with glass that makes sense. True neither may be dream worthy but a far cry from my previous sophomoric view of “collecting” rifles.

My dream is to one day mount a Swarovski atop my $84 Marlin 25N in .22lr. Why? Because I use that rifle more than any other.

 

[tarosean]

You can’t spend money you don’t have, so the price has to come down to meet reality, ergo the scope options shrink too.

Id much rather buy closeouts/discontinued/last years models/ etc. to save pennies than drop to some budget tier.

Besides appreciating a quality “tool,” I think in terms of what it “could cost me” vs what it did cost me. I traveled about 5 hours to a long-range rifle competition about 10 years ago. My 3-15 SWFA scope failed internally about 1/3 the way into the match. So, I became a spectator. Gas, travel, food for 3 days to be a spectator. If I were going to go on an Elk hunt out west, you can bet all my gear would be appropriate for the task and likely I would use a top tier Leupold scope. If I’m going out in the backyard to hunt deer at 35 yards or so, my Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 ($50) will be fine.

Was reading this thread and going to reply with similar but different scenarios, but you summed it up well.

 

[.308 Norma]

I, to my great delight, have none. My sole card is a debit linked to my checking account. Does that make me frugal?

I wouldn't know if that makes you "frugal" or not. My wife's and my rule is to never put more on our credit card than we can pay off the next month. I've heard that paying off a credit card every month (before there's any interest added on) makes a person a "deadbeat" as far as the credit card companies are concerned.

 

[LiveLife]

I've heard that paying off a credit card every month (before there's any interest added on) makes a person a "deadbeat" as far as the credit card companies are concerned.

Credit card companies still make money off transaction fees they charge to merchants for each transaction. Believe me, you are not a "deadbeat" to the credit card companies.

They pay me like $1000 each year in "cash" rewards and to do that, they are making a killing off my retail transactions fees as we pay off our credit cards each month.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Come on now, you can’t post a picture of lovelies like those without the details, models, calibers, scopes?

Not for the first time, but OK ...

Two postwar Husqvarna Mauser 98s with FN actions, in 8x57 (with the Schnabel forend) and .270; a Heym-manufactured .30-06 Monkey Wards Mauser (mid-1960s styled full stock and intermediate action length.)

All three have El Paso Weaver 2.5x scopes on Weaver mounts/rings, though the scope on the Heym (with the gold trim) carries the Sears J C Higgins brand. I call this latter rifle my Mail-order Mannlicher.

The .270 and the '06 both have Timney triggers, and later on I fitted the 8x57 with a M70-style side-swing safety. Other than that, they're stock and in very clean shape inside and out.

[BTW, my real 6.5 MS carbine still just has the original open sights, even though I can't see them that well anymore. Mounting a scope on it would feel like breaking a stained-glass window to me!]

 

[9x56MS]

Dave, thank you for indulging me. Your MS is beautiful. How did you get the checkering so clean? You are a man of great taste.

 

[9x56MS]

I totally disagree. Cheap scopes(and binoculars)may work well in the sunshine. But at pre dawn and post dusk they suck. I only use Meopta/Leupold Vx III's and Swarovski. And I will tell you that Swarovski Z5's and up will allow you to to use every minute of legal shooting light. Our legal times for deer are 1 hr before sunrise to 1 hr after sunset. Cheap glass just won't cut it.

To each his own. I also use Meopta (Cabela’s labeled) and Leupold but just can’t bring myself to spend what they are asking for Swarovski. Having compared them side by side with Leupold my admittedly undescriminating eyes just don’t see $2000 dollars difference.

 

[CptnAwesome]

I know some say "if you spend "X" on the rifle, you should spend "XX" on the scope. For my applications which are hunting and dabbling in precision. My areas of focus are
(1) holds a zero
(2a) Will not fog
(2b) Is clear at all magnifications I need.
(3) Adjustments (clicks) are accurate.

I pay no attention to price of rifle vs price of optics. I just want what suits my needs.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I totally disagree.

I have only ever hunted in a 1/2 hour before and after sunrise and sunset area.

I suppose that would revise my statement about $1000 being where returns level off for hunting scopes.

I do hunt coyote at night though. $1000 or even $3000 doesn’t cut it in that level of darkness.

To each his own. I also use Meopta (Cabela’s labeled) and Leupold but just can’t bring myself to spend what they are asking for Swarovski. Having compared them side by side with Leupold my admittedly undescriminating eyes just don’t see $2000 dollars difference.

I honestly don’t know what I was being “totally” disagreed with in the post you quoted.

Swarovski Z5s aren’t that much more and are really only the next class up from VX-3 which is apparently perfectly fine.

I agreed with the entire post which apparently “totally” disagreed with my own.

 

[redneck2]

I have only ever hunted in a 1/2 hour before and after sunrise and sunset area.

I suppose that would revise my statement about $1000 being where returns level off for hunting scopes.

I’ve told my story about bear hunting in Canada, but I’ll relay it again because it’s so incredibly interesting. OK, at least I think it is.

Hunting black bear. Bears typically come into bait at very late evening or just as the sun is coming up. I was in a tree stand on a very, very dark and rainy day. Under very heavy pine trees, raining. A black bear in those conditions is almost impossible to make out.

Up until that time I never imagined going on a bear hunt. My point is you’ll never be able to anticipate what conditions you will encounter in the future. Marginal glass with poor definition and light transmission wouldn’t cut it. Sitting in a tree stand watching a trophy animal walk away isn’t the time to decide you should upgrade

on my last prairie dog/pronghorn hunt the other guys had gotten “good enough “ binoculars. I have what were at the time the best Leupold model. About half way through the hunt the other guys were using mine because they were clearer and mine could pick out detail theirs couldn’t. Also, if you glass for long periods cheaper glass gives you eye strain

 

[WisBorn]

I wouldn't know if that makes you "frugal" or not. My wife's and my rule is to never put more on our credit card than we can pay off the next month. I've heard that paying off a credit card every month (before there's any interest added on) makes a person a "deadbeat" as far as the credit card companies are concerned.

The credit card company doesn't care if you pay off the card each month. They make there money on both ends. They charge the retailer 2-4% for purchases you make. I use a credit card for the vast majority of my purchases. Never a debit card as they don't have the same security as a credit card.
When I buy a new firearm it has always been cash. Everything else is normally on the card and paid off every month.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Used Leupold ,warranty transfers.That being said time and money spent on hunts,"ammo" if you don't reload all factors for what it could cost you in the long run.If you don't need the gun immediately be patient and buy once well.My 2 cents.

 

[WisBorn]

My favorite scope manufacturer is Leopold!!! I have bought their entry level scopes mainly because they are a great value, VX-1, 2, rifleman, and freedom models. I have a VX-III 3.5-10×40 on my Weatherby in my opinion great glass for a hunting rifle.
I started with Tasco, and have had Nikon scopes on hunting rifles.

Last year I put together a rig that I refer to as my working mans hunting rifle.
A lefthanded Savage Axis in 308win. I mounted a 3-9×40 Hawke scope on top. The rifle was less than $700 out the door with a couple boxes of ammo. The rifle has filled its role and is capable of less then MOA groups.
It is to early to comment on the scope other than it has held zero and is clear enough to hunt in the woods and marshes that I normally hunt. I am planning on hunting with the rig this year as my primary rifle.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Dave, thank you for indulging me. Your MS is beautiful. How did you get the checkering so clean? You are a man of great taste.

Bought it that way. My guess is it was a safe queen for most of the 20th century. Nothing interesting found in the butt trap though.

 

[CraigC]

I totally disagree. Cheap scopes(and binoculars)may work well in the sunshine.

Until they don't.

I hear a lot of folks justify their cheap optics because it's "just a .22" or some other arbitrary reason. Failure can happen at any time, on any firearm, under any condition. They might be fine on Day 1 at the range but can easily fail on Day 2 in the field, or Day 30, or Day 100. When will it happen? I've had quite a few cheap scopes give up and they never did it on a hard recoiling rifle or at the best time. Every one failed on a rimfire rifle, or was just no good to begin with and this was 20-30yrs ago when people 'claim' those Japanese Tascos were actually good. They never were, they just got worse when all production moved to China.

 

[.308 Norma]

When I buy a new firearm it has always been cash. Everything else is normally on the card and paid off every month.

That's pretty much the same as us. That is, firearms and other major purchases are cash (or check), while usual, everyday monthly purchases go on the credit card - which is paid off every month.
As a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago I thought about doing it differently, but quickly changed my mind. I'd told a vendor at the "Spring Fair" (in the minidome at Idaho State University) that I wanted a rear-tine rototiller he had on display, and that my wife and I would drive up to Blackfoot (where his shop is located) on Tuesday to pick it up. We did that, and when it came time to pay for my new tiller (almost $800), I decided for some unknown reason to just put it on the credit card. The shop owner quickly changed my mind about that when he said he'd have to charge me another $42 in credit card fees if I put it on our credit card. Consequently, I told my wife to write out a check instead, and we came home with a fancy, new, rear-tine rototiller - which I've yet to use because the garden area is still a mud hole!
Oh, well. We've always known that growing a vegetable garden is a lot like deer hunting in that we can buy vegetables at the supermarket a lot cheaper than we can grow them ourselves, and we can buy beef at the supermarket for a lot less than we spend on venison yearly. We're still going to grow vegetables, go deer hunting, and use our credit card as we please though - as long as we can anyway.

 

[d2wing]

I stopped using my debit card after it was hacked twice. The first time I was away from home and had no other source of funds. Now I use a couple credit cards and pay them off each month.

 

[Nature Boy]

I’ve never regretted stepping up and purchasing a top tier optic. (It stings but it does fade pretty quickly)

On the other hand I have a big bag full of disappointment on almost every cheap optic I’ve ever bought.

 

[redneck2]

I stopped using my debit card after it was hacked twice. The first time I was away from home and had no other source of funds. Now I use a couple credit cards and pay them off each month.

Same thing happened to us. Fortunately the bank caught it immediately.

Now we NEVER, EVER use a debit card. It gives whoever has the card number direct access to your checking account. Like you we use a 2% cash back card that gets paid off twice a month.

 

[High Plains]

“To each his own. I also use Meopta (Cabela’s labeled) and Leupold but just can’t bring myself to spend what they are asking for Swarovski.” I agree!
In 2011 Cabela’s put their Meopta-made scopes on clearance. I picked up a superb scope for $280. It was going to be on my 7mm Wby a gunsmith friend made. Things changed and I ended up trading the scope for a new Takamine acoustic-electric guitar. If I see another Meopta like the one I had I will not hesitate to buy it.

 

[LoonWulf]

“To each his own. I also use Meopta (Cabela’s labeled) and Leupold but just can’t bring myself to spend what they are asking for Swarovski.” I agree!
In 2011 Cabela’s put their Meopta-made scopes on clearance. I picked up a superb scope for $280. It was going to be on my 7mm Wby a gunsmith friend made. Things changed and I ended up trading the scope for a new Takamine acoustic-electric guitar. If I see another Meopta like the one I had I will not hesitate to buy it.

They show up pretty regularly on eBay. Folks are wise to the "Instinct" line being Meopta Meo-pros tho, so it's pretty rare to see them at steep discounts.

350-400 (for the smaller ones) is what I've been seeing, but I also primarily look for the HTRs