Rifle optics

[mstirton]

I was organizing the safe a bit and realized that I have 11 rifles with optics and 3 without. This is excluding C&R stuff of course. Actually, the 3 without are .22s (Henry, CZ452fs, Marlin 795LTR). I have put optics on all my centerfire rifles. I guess the SAR1 usually goes without the cumbersome side rail mount 6x POSP, but all the others stay on 100% of the time.

I feel a little better since I sometimes practice with BUIS through the Aimpoints

This really started only a couple years ago when I stopped buying as many guns and got more interested in glass. I find myself browsing optics deals and reviews as often as those for guns.

How may of you are a little too addicted to shooting through glass and what percentage of your non C&R rifles have optics?

 

[WardenWolf]

Pretty much all my rifles that can easily accept optics have them, or at least have optics dedicated for them (in the case of my AK rifles with optics on removable BP-02 rail mounts). I really don't do well with iron sights beyond 50 yards or so. A large part of it probably has to do with the bright Arizona sunlight. I do all my 100 yard shooting through glass. I just added another non-optic gun, though: a Golani sporter. It's not set up to accept optics, so it will have to do without. At least for now. Some day I want to have it fitted for a scope and see what it can really do.

 

[Smith357]

I have no choice, I got old and can't see squat without optics, my only rifle that is without them is my traditional muzzleloader.

 

[Sky]

I have a shot gun and a little carbine Ar that I keep bare bones. The carbine is normally used with a night scope but when it is on HD duty a light is attached and thats pretty much it.

The night scope is large and heavy (2.8 lbs) and when hunting at night most of the shots are taken at less than 125 yards but I usually remove this scope and replace it in it's padded carry case when home. Could have used a larger safe but have found the safe stops me from buying more rifles!!

 

[browningguy]

My only non-optic rifles are a Browning Auto .22, and a Kel Tec Sub 2000.

 

[Maverick223]

My eye sight is not my strong point, so most of my rifles have optics. The few that don't either sport a aperture target sight or a ghost ring; the only exception is the VZ.58, and I haven't decided whether to convert the factory sight to an aperture or not (though I have pretty well decided against optics). FWIW, I voted 50-75%, and it is probably on the high side of that value.

 

[taliv]

it's 2010. the only reason not to have optics on a gun is the same reason there are primitive deer seasons for bows and muzzleloaders: nostalgia

or maybe lack of funds.
or if it's just a collector item you never intend to shoot.

 

[FlyinBryan]

i have optics for all my rifles except for my springfield m1 garands, but i dont keep them on all the time.

i keep the ar's in the safe with just irons, but have optics on them for the range. when i go out to the country i like to shoot with the iron sights.

i did shoot optics only until a few years ago when i got the m1's. after shooting them (they have great sights) i started having quite a bit of fun shooting the ar's with iron sights.

 

[Packman]

Less than 25%. The only thing that has optics is the Marlin M60, and that's even optic-less at the moment, since I'm in the middle of upgrading it to a new scope.

The other 5 are all non-optic, for one reason or another. 2 are 70+ years old, and I keep them in original condition. One is a NIB collector, and will never be shot. The AK doesn't because I haven't found any optics I like. The Kel Tec Sub 2000 isn't, because on that gun, I don't want optics, I'm happy with the ghost ring.

Oh, and my shotgun is a standard bead. I don't like optics on scatterguns.

 

[Maverick223]

it's 2010. the only reason not to have optics on a gun is the same reason there are primitive deer seasons for bows and muzzleloaders: nostalgia

Taliv, I don't often disagree with you, but I believe that you missed the mark on this one. There are several reasons to equip a modern rifle with irons and leave off the optics. First among these is weight and balance, some rifles can be burdened by heavy, bulky, and large optics. I find this to be the case with my VZ.58 and M1 Carbine. Additionally there are rifles that are better served without magnification (for close range applications), sure there are red-dot optics and 1x scopes available, but the reflex sight requires batteries and generally appears fuzzy to folks with astigmatism (like myself), OTOH the 1x scope is superfluous and adds unnecessary expense, weight, and bulk (as mentioned above). Yet another reason to leave the optics off is the lack of provisions for such (either altogether or stock configuration making the scope ride too high), this is the case with my Browning 1895 (I equipped with an aperture sight). There are also applications where the recoil is great, requiring costly scopes that can handle the recoil and provide the necessary eye relief. Finally, you are correct about nostalgia, some rifles simply do not look right with optics, I believe this is the case with my Browning 1885 Highwall (despite it having provisions for a scope mount). I think it is well established that I like my optics, but in some instances they just aren't well suited to the task.

Furthermore I am a big proponent of back-up irons on rifles for (home, self, or wildlife) defense, DG rifles, and rifles that are likely to be utilized for costly hunts far from home (though I believe that back up optics are also a good option in this case), though I don't believe you were making an argument against such.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

I only use a scope when hunting deer other wise my guns all sport open sights.

 

[taliv]

fair enough mav; just my opinion and everyone is free to disagree

i include in "optics" the likes of aimpoint micro T1s (3.5oz), and jpoints (14 friggin GRAMS), etc. I just can't think of a task i could accomplish better (faster, more accurately, etc) with irons than with an appropriate optic.

 

[Maverick223]

i include in "optics" the likes of aimpoint micro T1s (3.5oz), and jpoints (14 friggin GRAMS), etc. I just can't think of a task i could accomplish better (faster, more accurately, etc) with irons than with an appropriate optic.

If they weren't so blurry I might agree with you. I still want to try the Leupy Prismatic (basically a 1x etched/illuminated reticle) despite its relative heft (when compared to some of the competition). FWIW, I too am faster with a 1x (or thereabouts) scope than most irons (though a peep is pretty darn quick), and there is little doubt that I am more accurate with optics. In short I like my scopes...for most things.

 

[taliv]

is it really that blurry? I had astigmatism really bad before i had lasik and now i don't really even remember what it was like, but i still see lights as stars at night. the red dots don't look round to me

 

[Maverick223]

is it really that blurry?

Pretty bad to me, and while it is usable, it is enough to be a distraction. That said, I destroyed my 20/15 vision (now about 20/30 IIRC) by getting battery acid in my eyes in my curious, but stupid, youth, so it may very well be more severe than the average person with astigmatism. :banghead:

 

[taliv]

do illuminated reticles look distorted to you?

 

[Maverick223]

Only if the illumination is turned up too high. In other words, any decent optic, with the illumination on moderate settings is pretty clear. For example, even when on the highest setting, my PRH reticle is still visible and clear. Most of my optics do not have illumination, because I find it unnecessary (I tend to shoot in the daytime), and generally unworthy of the added expense.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Only rifles I have without optics are a Winchester 94 top eject. Because it would take a special mount and I'd rather not alter the gun, I also use it as a back woods gun and nostalgia.

Also a 3 foot long, hand made .22 single shot. Certainly not going to have that thing drilled and tapped.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Red dots (eo tech and a BSA) were distorted to me and I have astigmatism. I found out with those you have to focus on the target and bring the dot up in front of it. After that it's been fine (unless I focus on the dot but I think I've unlearned doing that).
I have optics on most rifles. I can get faster hits with ARs with red dots, and of course the longer range rifles have scopes.

 

[GunTech]

Mostly some sort of optics, except for a couple of of military type rifles. Like many I have poor eyesight (i.e. 20/400 w/o glasses) and age isn't helping. On serious guns I install serious optics - often more expensive than the gun. But it's hard to justify putting something like an Aimpoint CompM4 on a $400 AK.

I do tend to stick with 1x sights on 'social' rifles and think that most people have too much magnification for the applications they put their rifles to. I've also noticed a lot of shooters who put cheap scopes on inexpensive mounts on very costly rifles.

The huge advantage of optical sights is that they put the aiming reticule on the same optical plane as the target. You don't have to pick what you are going to focus on. The widespread use of optical sights in military operations has had a big impact on hit ratios - something that came out in the ACR trials. Shooting well with iron sights is a skill that has to be learned.

Even though I own rifles with iron sights, and every 'social' rifle I own has at least BUIS, I am almost inclined to agree with Taliv. Optical sights are the future. They are no longer delicate, can be very compact and light, and their advantages far outweigh their disadvantages.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

I will have both agree and disagree with you Taliv, and I don't often disagree... While I agree that a good 1X is probably faster than my irons for my HD AR, I don't think that it is THAT much faster. As in, I think that you are hitting the point of diminishing returns. I used to have an EOtech, but the constant adjustment depending on the light conditions got old with me. When I use and optic on that rifle it's my NF 1-4, and while I love that optic, it's just too big and bulky when the gun is jammed next to the bed and the nightstand. I don't think that an optic is going to help me kill someone any deader as they come down the hallway; I'm pretty accurate at that distance with no sights at all.. Some rifles like my Marlin 45-70 I like irons because I find it a bit more challenging, and I don't remember John Wayne ever having a scope on his rifle. Once again, for this rifle, I am accurate enough within the range that I am likely to use the rifle at.

Long and the short is that an optic will add precision, but every application does not always need that precision.

 

[CraigC]

It's 2010 and I use what sights I want. I happen to prefer a good peep sight and 70% of my rifles wear them. It's not nostalgia, it's personal preference. I reckon I take exception to the implication that anyone who doesn't use optics is an old stick in the mud.

 

[taliv]

I don't think that it is THAT much faster

yep, I understand what you mean. If you search around, you will find lots of rifle and 3gun match results posted online. most are divided into optics/irons categories, and comparing them is interesting.