Rifle Purchase from friend living in Oregon

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RB1Shooter

RB1Shooter

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I live outside of the state of Oregon and I am interested in purchasing a reproduction Black Powder Cartridge Rifle, breech loader, from a friend who lives in Oregon. This will be a cash deal and I will get directly from him. Where I live, this would be no problem however, OR has some funny gun laws and I am not sure how to go about this legally. Does anyone have any advice?
Much appreciated.
 
If you have him ship it to an FFL in your state you're covered. If he's going to ship it himself (as opposed to having his FFL ship it) make sure your dealer will accept shipments from individuals.
The only other way is a face-to-face transfer. Without knowing what Oregon law is on such I'd suggest doing it in your state to be safe.
 
No more FtF in Oregon.
Well you can but you do it at an FFL and have it transfered and do a BGC, about $35 if the FFL is reasonable with the transfer.
 
...a reproduction Black Powder Cartridge Rifle, breech loader...
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Since it is a cartridge firearm (not a muzzle-loader) and was manufactured after 1898, I believe it qualifies as a firearm under federal law.
This will be a cash deal and I will get directly from him. Where I live, this would be no problem...
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If the gun is legally a firearm per federal law, then it would be a problem anywhere in the U.S. You can not buy a firearm from a resident of a state other than your own state of residence without involving an FFL. To do otherwise would be a federal felony for both of you.
 
JohnKSa said:
Since it is a cartridge firearm (not a muzzle-loader) and was manufactured after 1898, I believe it qualifies as a firearm under federal law.

If the gun is legally a firearm per federal law, then it would be a problem anywhere in the U.S. You can not buy a firearm from a resident of a state other than your own state of residence without involving an FFL. To do otherwise would be a federal felony for both of you.
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Read up on the difference between Antique, Curio and Relic, and Modern Firearms.

After you read up and understand that you will see how many holes are in your statements.
 
RB1Shooter said:
reproduction Black Powder Cartridge Rifle
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It isn't an antique or C&R.

Under federal law and regulation, you may buy a rifle in person from a FFL dealer in a different state. So theoretically you could run the deal through your guy's local store. I bet Oregon will disallow that and your only legal option is to have him send it to your local store.
 
Just do it the safest way possible. The way that you know won't cause you any problems.
Have him take it to an FFL dealer there, and ship it to your FFL dealer where you live. All your bases are covered.

There has to be an FFL involved for firearms sales in different states.
It does no good to speculate on the other details because states define things differently as far as what is a firearm and if replicas qualify. And Oregon isn't typically one of the ones with sane rules regarding firearms.
Be safe and be smart. Go FFL to FFL.
 
Arkansas Paul said:
It does no good to speculate on the other details because states define things differently as far as what is a firearm and if replicas qualify. And Oregon isn't typically one of the ones with sane rules regarding firearms.
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:thumbup:
It's been a while (1998) since my wife and I drove up to Big Timber, Montana to pick up the Shilou Sharps .45-110 (a Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) that my wife ordered for me as a 25th wedding anniversary gift two years prior. But as I remember it, it was just like buying any other cartridge firing rifle from an FFL right here in Idaho. That is, I filled out the paperwork, the factory people working the front desk at Shilou Rifle Company ran a phone-in background check on me, I wrote out a check for the balance, and we walked out the door with the rifle.
OTOH, that was in 1998 (like I said) and the laws might have changed since then. Besides that, I live in Idaho and Shilou Rifle Company is in Montana. If I lived in a different state, and Shilou Rifle Company was in Oregon, it might have been an entirely different story about how I finally was able to lay my hands on the .45-110 Sharps my wife had ordered for me two years prior.
Another "qualifier" - like I said, that was 1998 (26 years ago). I'm 75 now, and my memory might not be all that great. I DO remember this though - my wife and I drove up to Big Timber, Montana from our home here in Idaho, picked up my Shilou Sharps .45-110 from the factory, and drove home with it - after swinging over to Missoula to visit our daughter for a couple of days. :)
 
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Thanks for ALL the feedback. I have no desire to get my friend in trouble nor do I have any desire to be prosecuted for a felony. I love BPCR Silhouette Shooting far to much to lose it. As much as I am paying for the gun, $35 for BGC and shipping, cheap insurance.

Thanks to everyone who responded, you all made my path forward easy!
 
Read up on the difference between Antique, Curio and Relic, and Modern Firearms.
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That's the crux of it, all right. Since it is not a muzzle loader, for it to be exempt from federal firearm laws, it would have to be made before 1899. Since it is a reproduction that does not apply. As far as federal law is concerned, it's a modern firearm and subject to all the rules that apply to any other firearm.

As such, an FFL must be involved to transfer between residents of two different states.
 
Sorry. Not trying to be snarky or dismisive. Oregon has better firearms laws than many other states. I live here. If you want to buy a modern firearm from the 20th century and beyond, you need to be willing to deal with federal laws. FFL to FFL is the way to go unless the transferee is wiling to ship USPS per long gun federal; laws. if you have specific questions PM me. Not that difficult.
 
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FFL to FFL is the way to go unless the transferee is wiling to ship USPS per long gun federal; laws.
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FFL is the only legal way to go since the firearm is not an antique and not a muzzle loader. Cartridge firearms that are not antiques must involve an FFL if the transfer is between residents of two different states.
 
JohnKSa said:
FFL is the only legal way to go since the firearm is not an antique and not a muzzle loader. Cartridge firearms that are not antiques must involve an FFL if the transfer is between residents of two different states.
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Your post is confusing. Make sure you are clarifying. Federal law allows private citizens to ship to an FFL if it is a long gun. I shipped a rilfle recently to another person in another state using USPS and the receiving FFL. This is per ATF.
 
Federal law allows private citizens to ship to an FFL if it is a long gun.
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Yes, that's correct. It wasn't clear from your post that the shipment would go to an FFL. It seemed like you were saying it could be FFL to FFL or the person could just ship via USPS. The latter would only be ok as long as the person shipped to an FFL. Since the transfer is between residents of two different states, an FFL must be involved for the transfer to be legal.

When shipping to an FFL, it's important to contact the FFL before shipment as some FFLs will not accept firearm shipments from non-FFLs.
 
Jim Watson said:
It isn't an antique or C&R.

Under federal law and regulation, you may buy a rifle in person from a FFL dealer in a different state. So theoretically you could run the deal through your guy's local store. I bet Oregon will disallow that and your only legal option is to have him send it to your local store.
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Jim, What you wrote is not completely true. Please see 18 USC 922(b)(3) which is the federal law governing such sales. A person can lawfully purchase a Shotgun or Rifle from an FFL in any state PROVIDED that the sale complies with the laws of both the purchaser's state and the sellers state. Since Oregonian law prohibits the sale, it cannot lawfully be done under the federal law.
 
Remington1911 said:
ReRead this one more time, Get back to me on the 1898 comment.....I will give you plenty of time to dig out your google to actually learn something.

View attachment 1194479
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Remington1911 said:
ReRead this one more time, Get back to me on the 1898 comment.....I will give you plenty of time to dig out your google to actually learn something.

View attachment 1194479
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How about you enlighten us on how many holes there are in John’s statements regarding the OP’s situation
 
Remington1911 said:
ReRead this one more time, Get back to me on the 1898 comment.....I will give you plenty of time to dig out your google to actually learn something.
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Firearms made in or before 1898 are not considered to be firearms per federal law and therefore can be sold across state lines without an FFL's involvement. Because the OP stated that this gun is a reproduction, that does not apply here.

Muzzle-loading firearms are not considered to be firearms per federal law and therefore can be sold across state lines without an FFL's involvement. Because this gun is a cartridge firearm and a breechloader, that does not apply here.


Therefore, transferring this particular firearm across state lines, even though it is a blackpowder firearm, will require an FFL's involvement to be legal.

If you believe there's an error in any of this, please point out the error--the OP needs correct information and if you can provide it, please do. It would also be helpful if you would provide a cite to support your assertion.
 
JohnKSa said:
Therefore, transferring this particular firearm across state lines, even though it is a blackpowder firearm, will require an FFL's involvement to be legal.
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That's right. The type of propellant (black powder or smokeless) has no bearing whatever on the gun's classification as an antique. What's important is the ignition system. If it's a cartridge gun, then we look at the date of manufacture. A flintlock made today is an "antique," while a cartridge gun made in 1899 is not. What are interesting are guns whose production spanned the period 1898-1899. For those, we have to look at serial number tables (if available) to determine which are antiques and which are not. (The M1898 Krag is a good example.)

Then we layer that with the category of "curios and relics." These are cartridge guns made at least 50 years prior to the current date. Although these are "modern" guns, they can be transferred across state lines to holders of 03 Collector's Licenses.
 
All great points John. I will add that the best method to ship USPS from private seller to an FFL is for the seller to call the FFL and obtain a copy of their license for 2 reasons - the first is to show the postal clerk upon shipping and second, it is best to put a copy inside the box. Many FFLs do not like to give their licenses to individuals and some FFLs, especially in CA do not want an individual shipping to them. However, most have no issue since it is perfectly legal with long guns.
 
Chief TC said:
All great points John. I will add that the best method to ship USPS from private seller to an FFL is for the seller to call the FFL and obtain a copy of their license
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If you are a nonlicensee, you don't need a copy of the receiving dealers FFL. You are just required to ship to an FFL. While many, like me, will gladly send it, some will not. Thats because a nonlicensee doesn't need it. If you need to verify the validity of an FFL all you need is the first three and last five digits of his FFL#.



for 2 reasons - the first is to show the postal clerk upon shipping
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No USPS regulation requires anyone, anytime, anywhere to show a postal clerk any FFL. Ever. In fact it may cause more problems. Imagine that you have made a habit of bring Karen the USPS Clerk a copy of an FFL when you mail a rifle. Now guess what happens when some other guy takes his rifle to that post office.....Karen is gonna ask where is the FFL? You've caused a problem for subsequent shippers needlessly.


For a non licensee shipping a rifle or shotgun, just print the label online and drop off at the post office. The less interaction you have with a postal clerk the less nonsense about shipping a gun you'll experience.



and second, it is best to put a copy inside the box.
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FYI.....the receiving dealer already has plenty of copies of his FFL. It's not necessary.
What the receiving dealer really wants is a copy of the shippers ID. Federal law requires the receiving dealer to record the name and address of the shipper and a DL is the easiest way to do that.


Many FFLs do not like to give their licenses to individuals and some FFLs, especially in CA do not want an individual shipping to them. However, most have no issue since it is perfectly legal with long guns.
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It's perfectly legal under federal law for a nonlicensee to ship any gun to an FFL in any state.
The issues are:
USPS only allows licensed dealers, manufacturers and importers to ship firearms other than rifles or shotguns. Violate that and its a felony.
UPS and FedEx policies (not laws) prohibit nonlicensees from shipping firearms period. Violate that and they don't have to deliver your gun.
 
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