mcmurry
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I can not afford a new or used AR, nor a "kit" AR. I'm not sure I can afford a Shotgun News AK. So what does anyone suggest for an affordable semiauto of the military type? Thanks.
Rifle Question.
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firesky101
Member
Three letters SKS.
meanmrmustard
Member
^this. Or...you may be able to get an unconverted Saiga. They're getting costlier, but cheaper than a traditional AKM and you can save to convert it later and make it the same. If you are really budget minded, however, a Norinco SKS can be had at gun shows depending on condition for $200-$300. They arecustomizable as there are several makes of after market stocks, scope mounts, rails, etc. or, you can leave either weapon I've mentioned stock, shoot them how they are and become proficient with them. If you're into the tacticool or just want to make a "silk purse", there is no limitation to what can be done to an SKS or Saiga, other than funds and patience. Good luck, bro.
Edit: look at Saiga IZ 132 or IZ 240
Edit: look at Saiga IZ 132 or IZ 240
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ColtPythonElite
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I would rather have a SKS than a AR.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
meanmrmustard
Member
Cheaper to buy, cheaper to shoot, shoots heavier hitting ammo (if we are referring to what round the AR was designed to shoot, none of this SPC or Grendel) refuses to be stopped, run cooler, have a more "traditional" hunting rifle profile, were meant for steel cased ammo, and if it blows up, fails, or gets the crap beat out of it...rebuild it or buy a new one for cheap.
I own an AR, had a few actually, but it's not going to be my SHTF rifle. It's a fun gun, used for hunting and accurate paper punching, but I have rifles I'd actually BET my life on that are easier to clean, shoot, and work on if need be.
Did I mention cheaper?
I own an AR, had a few actually, but it's not going to be my SHTF rifle. It's a fun gun, used for hunting and accurate paper punching, but I have rifles I'd actually BET my life on that are easier to clean, shoot, and work on if need be.
Did I mention cheaper?
ColtPythonElite
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What he^said.
Reloadron
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The SKS / AR subject was beaten up pretty well in this thread. Anyway...
Considering the original post and the fact that the original poster has a very small pocket book I would have to agree that the SKS is a good choice.
However, I see the SKS / AR thing more like an apple / orange. Each rifle has merits. I started a gun business with a dozen SKS rifles so I owe much to those rifles. I still have the rifle that started it all and enjoy shooting it. We were buying SKS rifles as Chinese surplus for about $80 in lots of 10 and selling them all cleaned up for $129.
Yes, ammunition is cheaper and the 7.62 X 39 round packs more punch than the smaller 5.56 X 45 round. It should be noted that an AR is not limited to 5.56 X 45 ammunition. I very much like my AR 10 in 7.62 X 51. Additionally, .223 ammunition is not all that expensive as compared to 7.62 X 39.
The SKS has a fixed 10 round magazine capacity while the AR rifles offer a detachable magazine. Nice feature.
While the SKS offers up adequate accuracy I feel a good AR will beat it hands down. Then too, a matter of what one wants to spend.
So in conclusion the SKS is an excellent suggestion. However, given a choice between a SKS and an AR I would take the AR assuming there were no budget constraints. My AR choice being the AR 10 in 7.62 X 51.
Just My Take.
Ron
Considering the original post and the fact that the original poster has a very small pocket book I would have to agree that the SKS is a good choice.
However, I see the SKS / AR thing more like an apple / orange. Each rifle has merits. I started a gun business with a dozen SKS rifles so I owe much to those rifles. I still have the rifle that started it all and enjoy shooting it. We were buying SKS rifles as Chinese surplus for about $80 in lots of 10 and selling them all cleaned up for $129.
Yes, ammunition is cheaper and the 7.62 X 39 round packs more punch than the smaller 5.56 X 45 round. It should be noted that an AR is not limited to 5.56 X 45 ammunition. I very much like my AR 10 in 7.62 X 51. Additionally, .223 ammunition is not all that expensive as compared to 7.62 X 39.
The SKS has a fixed 10 round magazine capacity while the AR rifles offer a detachable magazine. Nice feature.
While the SKS offers up adequate accuracy I feel a good AR will beat it hands down. Then too, a matter of what one wants to spend.
So in conclusion the SKS is an excellent suggestion. However, given a choice between a SKS and an AR I would take the AR assuming there were no budget constraints. My AR choice being the AR 10 in 7.62 X 51.
Just My Take.
Ron
meanmrmustard
Member
Adding a rifle that obviously the OP can't afford to own in the AR-10 is comparing a melon to the SKSs apples, AR15s oranges, and a used AKMs...some fruit. The AR-15 trumps the SKS in accuracy, but it's a non issue if he can't afford it. Unless you're buying steel cased .223 vs 7.62x39, the two rounds aren't very close in price, at all. Wouldn't even consider .308 in the ballpark.
If he wants a semi .308 cheaper than an AR-10 (which he never mentioned, I'm assuming due to cost) then once again, a Saiga may be in order. But then we are back above his parameters. I say assume in that if he's contemplating an SKS (which I will state is a fine battle rifle, one which worried GIs in Vietnam according to a source of my own) his budget is quite tight. In this regard, what's expected out of the rifle vs what it cost kinda ushers AR platforms out of the equation indefinitely.
Art Eatman
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When a guy is talking low budget, it's a waste of bandwidth to yawp about costly guns.
epijunkie67
Member
For a semiauto rifle that is rugged and fires a common round at a low price the SKS is going to be hard to beat.
If you want one with a detachable magazine an unconverted Saiga would be the next step up. They are supposed to be highly accurate for the platform and shoot the same round as the SKS. I checked online and seem to be running around $400 but you may find a used one cheaper. I've considered getting one myself as a truck gun to replace the lever rifle I carry there now.
If you want one with a detachable magazine an unconverted Saiga would be the next step up. They are supposed to be highly accurate for the platform and shoot the same round as the SKS. I checked online and seem to be running around $400 but you may find a used one cheaper. I've considered getting one myself as a truck gun to replace the lever rifle I carry there now.
When concerning budgets the SKS is the best bet. But history has shown me that:
Russian SKS's started sales around $79 but now bring $500+++
Chinese SKS's " $79 " $400+++
Yugo's not to long ago was a $119 firearm but now are going in $300s.
But still the SKS is a good value and investment for the money. I like the SKS because of the milled receivers, wood stock, short magazine, cheap plentiful and powerful ammo.
'loose
Russian SKS's started sales around $79 but now bring $500+++
Chinese SKS's " $79 " $400+++
Yugo's not to long ago was a $119 firearm but now are going in $300s.
But still the SKS is a good value and investment for the money. I like the SKS because of the milled receivers, wood stock, short magazine, cheap plentiful and powerful ammo.
'loose
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I agreed the SKS was the best choice. What I added was in response to this:
Simply saying, based on that, I would opt for the AR type rifle. Obviously the OP can't afford an AR.
Ron
While SKS's are an inexpensive choice, they are getting more expensive and harder to find.
A better choice would be a 9mm carbine from HI-Point. Cheaper to buy and cheaper to shoot. And yes, I hear they are reliable and fun to shoot.
Jim
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/carbines/carbines_9mm.html
A better choice would be a 9mm carbine from HI-Point. Cheaper to buy and cheaper to shoot. And yes, I hear they are reliable and fun to shoot.
Jim
http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/carbines/carbines_9mm.html
Don357
Member
If I had the money to buy an AR, I would buy an HK93, or 2 AK's. But to comment on the OP's question, I tend to agree on the SKS. If he wants removable, hi-cap mags, several companies make "tactical" stocks for the SKS, that have conversions to accept AK mags, as well as other accessories.
meanmrmustard
Member
They are, and they are fun to shoot. However, after owning one myself, it's not going to hold a candle to the SKS.
Also, for what the HI Point costs lately (popularity still commands a $300 price new) you can get a Norinco SKS that overlaps the uses, range, and price of a Hi Point. You won't be able to touch a Romy for $300, but a Norinco is fine, it works, and does what a HP does only better, maybe cheaper, shoots farther, and is in the OPs parameters for a "military" carbine.
meanmrmustard
Member
Are we talking more than $200 but less than $500? Only reason I ask is for a margin is to give ideas as to what basic rifle can be bought, then what model, manufacturer, caliber, and condition is affordable.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
I think the removable magazine feature is a little overrated. I have purchased a lot of 7.62 x 39 surplus ammo on stripper clips and the internal magazine on an SKS can be reloaded probably as fast as you can change magazines. I know it is 10 rounds vs 20 or 30 but I if you are shooting the rounds that fast you are either practicing "spray and pray" or are in full panic mode and not being effective anyway. I think firefights in WWII were won 8 rounds at a time.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
This has really gone off topic.
While firefights during WW II were in fact won 8 rounds at a time the M1 Garand was loaded using an En Block clip containing 8 rounds. While not quite a detachable magazine it was a considerable improvement over 5 rounds at a time from a stripper clip feeding an O3 Springfield.
Additionally, those 8 rounds at a time, in fire fights, were being fired from a semi automatic rifle which fared better than the bolt action rifles it was in competition with. I would say the M1 Garand had the edge. At that point in time given a choice between the O3 Springfield and the M1 Garand I would choose the Garand.
Discounting other US rifles of the era following WW II the M1 Garand morphed into the M 14 rifle. The then most desirable features the M 14 offered over its predecessor the M1 Garand were the ability to select full auto fire and a detachable 20 round magazine. Those were the two big selling points. I was trained with the M 14. Now at this point given a choice between the M1 Garand and a M 14 I would choose the M 14. Both rifles weigh n the same give or take. They look and function similar. I am giving up a 30-06 cartridge for a 7.62 X 51 cartridge.
Then came the big change. The US moved to the M 16 rifle. Again keeping it simple with the basic US infantry man's rifle. The M 16 offered up another gas operated magazine fed shoulder weapon. Looks absolutely nothing like the M1 Garand or the M 14. The original versions offering full automatic select fire or semi automatic fire and also magazine fed. The standard round being the 5.56 X 45 cartridge. Apparently it was decided that the US infantryman did not really need a 300, 400 or 500 yard rifle as most fire fights occurred within 200 yards or less. Subsequently it was decided there was no need for the fully automatic feature which was reduced to 3 shot burst for the basic infantryman. This to eliminate the spray and pray concept. Additionally, the ammunition was lighter. So all things considered, given a choice I would opt for the M 16 rifle over the M 14 which I really liked.
All of this is here nor there and pretty much my opinion and we know what is said about opinions. As to the original poster? You want a military type rifle? You have small purse strings? Go to a good gun show and shop around for the rifles mentioned. If the cash is real short, then consider buying an SKS.
Just My Take
Ron
I hate completely off topic responses, answer the ops question or start a new thread.
Op -sks is the way to go. I bought one in college ad it was great an inexpensive to keep shooting, and as others have mentioned you can customize them to your needs as you go along.
Op -sks is the way to go. I bought one in college ad it was great an inexpensive to keep shooting, and as others have mentioned you can customize them to your needs as you go along.
meanmrmustard
Member
There's a reason why military wanted developement of a cartridge to bridge the gap between the 556 and 7.62x51, the 6.8 SPC. While the m16 is a fine rifle, it has it's shortcomings I.e.: shooting assailants at longer ranges yielded few dead bodies. The Garand shoots a higher power round capable of a more trustworthy one shot kill. Suffice it to say, hi cap mags for a pee shooting AR is almost needed, either for suppression or double/triple taps. Both rifles you guys mention have trade offs, like all others do.
So, keeping this ON TOPIC, since the AR isn't affordable, along with the M1/M14 platform, the SKS platform is still appealing, 10 rounds be damned if the magazine modification is made to allow for higher capacity. So, the AR hi cap vs low cap Garand argument, or whatever you two fellas are talking about is moot.
Where'd the OP go!
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henschman
Member
If you get an SKS, put some Tech Sights on it. They are awesome... they really increased the speed and accuracy I could get out of that platform. They double the sight radius, and give you an AR rear aperture sight.
birdshot8's
Member
and if it doesn't need to be a battle rifle, you can't go wrong with lever actions.
If you want to shoot tiny little groups at the bench with a semi-auto, military style rifle, while spending as little as possible, its hard to beat an AR. However, having said that, if you're looking for a fun, relatively inexpensive, incredibly rugged, utterly reliable, military rifle you can't beat an SKS. An SKS, by the way, also has enough power, bullet size and weight that if need be, could also be pressed into service as a big game/deer/hog/black bear rifle which is an important factor for some. Look around and you can still find a used one at a decent price.
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