breakingcontact
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Good 22LR is reliable, even cheaper stuff isn't bad. What it is though...is dirty.
Rim-fire reliability
- Thread starter ozarkgunner
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larryh1108
Member
Remington Golden bulk packs were the worst, by far. Federal bulk was better but still had their share of duds. I never had any problems with CCI. I do believe that the bulk packs have more issues because of the way they are packed and shipped. Many times the bullet is seated crooked and loose (though it won't come off if pulled by hand). I have not tried the new and improved Remington because I was soured on the old stuff plus there isn't any around to even try.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Pretty amusing, looking back over all the posts so far.
I made a table on a scrap piece of paper and every time someone praised, denounce, or was indifferent about something, I wrote it down. I was curious to see what trends there might be and whether or not it might provide something useful beyond the "this brand sucks" level. And I did find something useful.
Interestingly, the Praise column has more pluses in it for virtually each brand of ammunition citd than the Denounce column, with the exception of Remington bulk packs. "Virtually" because I'm not counting the brands which only made a single appearance in one column or the other. (Like American Eagle...only one comment about that, and it was in the Denounce column. Nothing else to support or refute this experience.)
And here's the useful part I mentioned earlier: There are claims of improvement with the newer Remington bulk pack as well. Certainly my own experience with Remington bulk packs that I've bought just this year seem to be very good. I've gone through almost all of the 5 boxes I've bought this year with no problems.
Based on this, it's entirely possible that the various claims of poor performance by some people with respect to Remington bulk packs might no longer be representative of the quality of their current production runs.
This might make it worth people's while to revisit Remington and give them a "second shot", as it were.
I made a table on a scrap piece of paper and every time someone praised, denounce, or was indifferent about something, I wrote it down. I was curious to see what trends there might be and whether or not it might provide something useful beyond the "this brand sucks" level. And I did find something useful.
Interestingly, the Praise column has more pluses in it for virtually each brand of ammunition citd than the Denounce column, with the exception of Remington bulk packs. "Virtually" because I'm not counting the brands which only made a single appearance in one column or the other. (Like American Eagle...only one comment about that, and it was in the Denounce column. Nothing else to support or refute this experience.)
And here's the useful part I mentioned earlier: There are claims of improvement with the newer Remington bulk pack as well. Certainly my own experience with Remington bulk packs that I've bought just this year seem to be very good. I've gone through almost all of the 5 boxes I've bought this year with no problems.
Based on this, it's entirely possible that the various claims of poor performance by some people with respect to Remington bulk packs might no longer be representative of the quality of their current production runs.
This might make it worth people's while to revisit Remington and give them a "second shot", as it were.
Caliper_Mi
Member
In addition to the priming process as mentioned by others, the priming compound being in the case means that it is exposed to the loose powder and can potentially knocked loose during handling/shipping/etc.
Someone did, it's called centerfire.
All the larger rimfire calibers have been replaced by centerfire. I have a hunch that it would be too difficult/expensive to make 22LR as a centerfire, thus it continues. Buy quality ammo and don't beat it up. I stick to CCI just because it works well for me and makes purchase decisions easier. Also, I save the nice plastic boxes CCI uses for the Mini Mags and repackage the bulk Blazer ammo into them. That way the rounds are each individually held and don't get knocked around like they do in the bulk boxes.
P5 Guy
Member
Well, I had a couple of Winchester with no bullet or powder, just a primed case. Some too bent to chamber from that Mexican manufacturer.
longspurr
Member
In the 70's I was into Bullseye shooting. Using a S&W mod 41 I was shooting 500-800 rounds per week - every week. This was standard vel stuff. Usually Remington or Winchester. The remington consistantly had a couple dud's per brick, sometimes per box. The Win T22 was mostly good, but I did have a batch that also had a couple dud''s per box.
Currently I'm not shooting enought 22 to know the state of 22 reliability.
Currently I'm not shooting enought 22 to know the state of 22 reliability.
22-rimfire
Member
I agree. The new and improved production started in late 2011 or early 2012 at Remington. Then the shortage hit and it didn't matter what brand the ammunition was. Folks just wanted to maintain a useful supply.
I have been trying to place purchase dates (month/year) on ammunition boxes in an attempt to get a feel for the time element and quality. I certainly have pre-new and improved Remington. I have stuff from 1985 too. The recording gets a bit old with the Federal Champion/Lightning HV (#510 and 510B) as I buy a lot of that at Walmart and usually in the 50-ct boxes. So, I have lots of 50-ct boxes and most are not labeled. But the bulk packs and bricks are all labeled. Honestly, if I had my preference, I would not buy another bulk pack again.
Has anyone experienced misfires from a bolt action 22 rifle? I don't recall ever having any problems with a bolt. I often have problems with some semis but more load and eject issues than actual misfires so I tend to think this is more of a magazine issue.
I do know I sometimes hear a marked difference in the sound of ammo out of the same box.
I do know I sometimes hear a marked difference in the sound of ammo out of the same box.
Caliper_Mi
Member
Yes. And it was Remington GB ammo, although older vintage. The particular rifle is a Romanian trainer which has a very solid firing pin strike and will often light duds that were tried once or twice in other rifles.
Shawn Dodson
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I've encountered a failure to fire every now and then in my 40+ years of shooting. Last summer I went shooting with my dad and he had some older quality .22 (probably 20 years old) that he'd kept in an ammo can and we experienced misfire after misfire. So I made a note to myself to write the month & year on the box when I purchase .22 LR ammo and rotate my stock so I shoot the old stuff first.
I belive the reason why my father and I experienced so many misfires is because the primer compound broke down over time and became dislodged from the rim when the heavy ammo can was "plopped" down onto the concrete garage floor.
I belive the reason why my father and I experienced so many misfires is because the primer compound broke down over time and became dislodged from the rim when the heavy ammo can was "plopped" down onto the concrete garage floor.
Gaucho Gringo
Member
I can remember in the 50's when my dad was first teaching me to fire a gun, once in a while there was a .22 dud. I think every since .22 was invented there has been a certain number of failures, just like every other manufactured product. Nothing is perfect all the time.
30 years of rimfire and can't remember a misfire. Have had cycling problems in semi-auto, one OBD and lots of stovepipes with sub-sonic. But never a FTF or a squib. Ammo has been Lapua, SK, CCI (including Blazer bulk in recent years).
22-rimfire
Member
If you shoot rimfires much, you will have failures. You can reduce the frequency of failures by buying better ammunition and keeping your guns pretty clean (at least the action and around the chamber). I have never had a FTF with CCI HV or SV. Maybe I don't shoot it enough. So many choices... I tend to view CCI HV as "expensive" ammunition or used to.
CCI SV has become my go to 22 ammo for paper punching and Federal Lightning/Champion #510 or 510B (50-ct boxes) for most everything else. I get an occasional FTF with the Federal.
With bulk, I expect FTF's. That's a fact. I don't worry about it.
I have no particular problem with Remington 22 ammunition although I know the older mid-1990 to recent 2012 manufactured stuff will have a higher incidence of FTF's. I live with that. I also have Remington ammo that dates back to the mid-80's (mostly in the 100-ct yellow plastic boxes). Generally shoots pretty well. I keep loosing that stuff and it turns up a year or so later. That's what happens when you place filled 50 cal ammunition cans in closets and so forth and they get covered up with other junk. I have no idea how much of that stuff I still have tucked around.
I tend to view CCI HV as "expensive" ammunition or used to.CCI SV has become my go to 22 ammo for paper punching and Federal Lightning/Champion #510 or 510B (50-ct boxes) for most everything else. I get an occasional FTF with the Federal.
With bulk, I expect FTF's. That's a fact. I don't worry about it.
I have no particular problem with Remington 22 ammunition although I know the older mid-1990 to recent 2012 manufactured stuff will have a higher incidence of FTF's. I live with that. I also have Remington ammo that dates back to the mid-80's (mostly in the 100-ct yellow plastic boxes). Generally shoots pretty well. I keep loosing that stuff and it turns up a year or so later.
That's what happens when you place filled 50 cal ammunition cans in closets and so forth and they get covered up with other junk. I have no idea how much of that stuff I still have tucked around.In my experience the bulk Remington stuff...like the Golden Bullets...is complete and utter dog crap.
During the height of the panic I sold a little over 6,000 rounds of it on Gunbroker...easily...for about $0.11 each. I'd been sitting on it for years because it sucked so bad.
Recently I found three 50 round boxes of some kind of Remington junk hidden in with the rest of my ammo. I loaded some 15-22 mags with it and shot them today. I had multiple malfunctions. The difference in recoil and report from round to round was ridiculous. Terribly inconsistent.
Remington can go do something I'm not allowed to post on THR as far as I'm concerned.
During the height of the panic I sold a little over 6,000 rounds of it on Gunbroker...easily...for about $0.11 each. I'd been sitting on it for years because it sucked so bad.
Recently I found three 50 round boxes of some kind of Remington junk hidden in with the rest of my ammo. I loaded some 15-22 mags with it and shot them today. I had multiple malfunctions. The difference in recoil and report from round to round was ridiculous. Terribly inconsistent.
Remington can go do something I'm not allowed to post on THR as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting to see the varied experiences. I've shot hundreds of thousands of rounds of 22's, likely the majority Remington, and had extremely few problems. This was before it was bulk packed, and the Golden Bullet loads were the better grade, not economy. I had a LOT of variation in report from Fed 22's, so gave up on it in the 70's and 80's. Used to shoot scads of the old Winchester Wildcat 22's in the bricks (10 boxes of 50not loose pack). It was consistant for economy ammo, and generally reliable. It required more frequent cleaning from the wax on the bullets than the standard grade stuff, but that was worthwhile for the savings.
It was somewhat rare to have failures to fire with the stuff I shot in the past. Not sure what happened recently, if its the ammo, or the guns. I know some guns are more sensitive. I knew of a Smith 41 that wouldn't shoot certain types or brands of ammo in the winter, too many failures to fire. It was OK in the summer. I've probably mostly had hammer fired guns, which may help with ignition. Even the more recent Remington bulk ammo hasn't given me any trouble to speak of.
The Remington Thunderbolt ammo has always been junk from my experience though. It seemed quite a contrast from the regular grade stuff.
It was somewhat rare to have failures to fire with the stuff I shot in the past. Not sure what happened recently, if its the ammo, or the guns. I know some guns are more sensitive. I knew of a Smith 41 that wouldn't shoot certain types or brands of ammo in the winter, too many failures to fire. It was OK in the summer. I've probably mostly had hammer fired guns, which may help with ignition. Even the more recent Remington bulk ammo hasn't given me any trouble to speak of.
The Remington Thunderbolt ammo has always been junk from my experience though. It seemed quite a contrast from the regular grade stuff.
BullSlinger
Member
Due to the 22lr shortage from panic buying I am not in a position to be picky about what brand I happen to be shooting. Lately I feel lucky if I can find ammo in 22 caliber available for purchase. I have not seen bulk boxes on shelves any place since December of last year. When I do find it for sale it is 50 round box at six dollars or more.
Many 50 round boxes of .22lr are worth $6 or more.
inconsistent priming in the rim
As someone who routinely fires a bulk box of various manufacture thru both a Ruger MK2 and MK3 in one session I am used to on average around 2 FTF per 500 or so.I have noticed if I drop it back in the pipe with the another part of the rim under the firing pin most of the time they go bang. $20 for 500rds comes to .04 per round. When you think of it in those terms it seem remarkable that they are as reliable as they are. ----although if i had problems with a premium brand I might contact the manufacturer
As someone who routinely fires a bulk box of various manufacture thru both a Ruger MK2 and MK3 in one session I am used to on average around 2 FTF per 500 or so.I have noticed if I drop it back in the pipe with the another part of the rim under the firing pin most of the time they go bang. $20 for 500rds comes to .04 per round. When you think of it in those terms it seem remarkable that they are as reliable as they are. ----although if i had problems with a premium brand I might contact the manufacturer
22-rimfire
Member
Yes, the Golden Bullets used to be Remingtons better 22 ammunition and the Thunderbolts were the promo grade. But years ago, I saw little difference between the two. Mohawk was another of the Remington brands for a while. I guess Remington is packaging "Peters" again which I believe are thunderbolts.
In the late 1990's and up until about 2010, the golden bullets were pretty unpredictable, but they still on average shot pretty well. This is about when I stated to shoot 22's more and started shifting my shooting to rifles versus handguns. This is the time period where the FTF issue became more pronounced and something experienced by many. I did not shoot them out of semi-autos. I got tired of ejecting FTF's. Nobody seems to know about when the reduction in quality happened. I am not sure when Reimgton started the bulk pack packaging as I was generally not interested in it. Have some of course. I have some of just about everything... below Midas grade.
Yeah, but I refuse to sell at those kinds of prices. I will not participate in the scalping that has been going on for the last 10-12 months. Believe it or not, I still have some that I paid $0.50/50-ct box (retail) in my cache. Remington GB's were frequently priced on sale at $0.99/100-ct plastic box which gradually became $1.99.
In the late 1990's and up until about 2010, the golden bullets were pretty unpredictable, but they still on average shot pretty well. This is about when I stated to shoot 22's more and started shifting my shooting to rifles versus handguns. This is the time period where the FTF issue became more pronounced and something experienced by many. I did not shoot them out of semi-autos. I got tired of ejecting FTF's. Nobody seems to know about when the reduction in quality happened. I am not sure when Reimgton started the bulk pack packaging as I was generally not interested in it. Have some of course. I have some of just about everything... below Midas grade.
Yeah, but I refuse to sell at those kinds of prices. I will not participate in the scalping that has been going on for the last 10-12 months. Believe it or not, I still have some that I paid $0.50/50-ct box (retail) in my cache. Remington GB's were frequently priced on sale at $0.99/100-ct plastic box which gradually became $1.99.
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ColtPythonElite
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I don't agree....I shoot thousands of rounds of bulk outta my Ruger MKs. A misfire is rare. A misfeed might come after a few thousand and no cleaning. Five minutes of cleaning fixes the problem.
Either a lot of the .22lr rifles out there are crap (such as 10/22's and Marlins), or a lot of the .22lr's out there are never cleaned or lubed (possible), or a lot of the bulk .22lr out there is crap...because malfunctions are basically an every-string-of-fire occurrence on Appleseed lines.
And every bulk Remington ammo I have shot has been utter crap...and that's in firearms that are 100% on good ammo.
You get a bunch of people shooting bulk .22lr somewhere for a day, and you'll get to see plenty of malfunctions.
And every bulk Remington ammo I have shot has been utter crap...and that's in firearms that are 100% on good ammo.
You get a bunch of people shooting bulk .22lr somewhere for a day, and you'll get to see plenty of malfunctions.
ColtPythonElite
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I shoot local silhouette matches. Most of our guys use bulk. I rarely see a misfire....However, none of them use Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Model 60 rifles.
Most of the malfunctions I see are failures to eject, surely due to the incredibly inconsistent charge from round to round.
Just not enough oomph on a lot of the individual rounds, especially after a couple or few hundred rounds downrange.
mljdeckard
Member
The only .22s I have ever had a failure to fire with were bulk pack. Minimags, stingers, velocitors, never had a problem.
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