Risk in buying S&W M19?

[Tipro]

Been pondering the Model 19 for awhile now, and am ready to buy once the right one comes along, if only I can get past a concern. I've read several times that the Model 19 can develop issues if too many magnum rounds are shot through it. As such, should I be overly concerned about what previous owners have done if buying used? What sort of inspection should be done, preferably through pictures since I likely will buy online?

Thanks

 

[jhvaughan2]

In most case this risk is very overstated on the net. It came about by complaints from some police departments who shot high volumes of Lightweight (125gr) bullets at magnum velocities.
Most M19s have many more .38 specials shot through them than magnums. The .38 pose no problem what so ever. Also keeping your magnums in the 158g range you will stay away from the condition known to cause this problem.

If you are concerned about this and need a similar revolver to shoot large quantities of .357 (especially 125g) then get a 586/686. It is nearly the same size as the M19 with a thicker forcing cone to prevent this issue.

The damage is easy to spot. It is reparable by replacing the barrel. (However it will have to be obtained on the used market.)

 

[Telekinesis]

My understanding is that it is only a problem with a heavy diet of 125gr magnum loads. If they were 158+ grain loads it should be fine.

As far as the used revolvers, I would hazard a guess that the majority of them get used with .38s for the most part and only occasionally see .357 Mags (I know that's what I would do if I didn't reload - no way could I afford to shoot .357 magnums on a regular basis if I had to buy them retail). I would highly recommend going for the model 19 though. I'm not a revolver guy, but I absolutely love my Model 19. Excellent fit and finish, accuracy, and power (not to mention the great trigger).

 

[wanderinwalker]

If the gun checks out per the Revolver Checkout sticky, and doesn't have a cracked forcing cone as shown in jhvaughan2's picture, you should be golden. Most people are going to shoot .38s primarily in a K-frame size gun, especially a 4" model. For every one on here who says firing Magnums in a J-frame is no big deal, there are probably 20-30 people who find a couple cylinders of .357s through a full-size gun to be more than plenty. I'm not particularly recoil shy but 158s at 1200-fps through my 4" 19 are my limit.

As for the 586/686 comment, I must respectfully disagree that they are near the same size as a K-frame. Even with the same stocks and blindfolded, I can't imagine not being able to tell a K from an L. IME the L-frame is quite a bit heftier all around. That said, I do find my 586 much more pleasant when the range agenda calls for nothing but full-power .357s and slightly easier to manage when shooting quickly.



Left to right: M-18 K-frame .22 LR, M-19 K-frame .357, M-586 L-frame .357 and M-629 N-frame .44 Magnum. Old picture, I no longer have the 629 and the smooth Ahrends stocks on the 18 are now on the 19. (I find smooth non-finger grooved stocks much easier to grip consistently when drawing.)

 

[moxie]

Model 19 is a super gun. Just check it out like any other used revolver per the sticky.

It handles very nice and has a great trigger. Get a good one and shoot the heck out of it.

 

[BYJO4]

If you are looking for a like new model 19, there should be no issues. Most model 19s have not been shot with a constant diet of 125 gr 357 ammo. As already mentioned, check out the forcing cone.

 

[Jim K]

The bottom of the forcing cone has to be a bit thin because of the size of the K frame. That was no problem with .38 Special, or with the older .357 ammo, though it was always advised to not feed the gun a steady diet of hot .357 loads. When the trend began to the jacketed and less compressible 125 grain bullets at very high velocities, the Model 19 forcing cones did not stand up well, and the ultimate solution was the L frame.

But if .357 loads are kept reasonable and bullets with heavy jackets avoided, the Model 19 will give good service for many years to come. As others mentioned, many of those guns (including my own) have been fired much more with .38 Special than with .357 in any case.

Jim

 

[gotboostvr]

The forcing cone cracking with thousands and thousands of HOT 125gr loads is a real thing, but I'd say the biggest issue with buying nice older Smith wheel guns is that they tend to multiply.

Since I bought my first one (a 19-3) I've bought pistols other than S&W revolvers, but none of them have really hung around too long. I tend to look at friends like they're crazy when they ask about relieving me of one of my Smiths!

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I had a 66 that developed a crack in the forcing cone with about 350 rounds of Remington 125 jhp ammo. I sent it back to S & W and they replaced the barrel, cylinder and some internal parts on their dime. This was back in the late 70's early 80's and .357 ammo was loaded to higher pressures than today's ammo.

 

[Kernel]

If your worried about unknown .357 Mag wear from a previous owner, just buy a Model 15 instead. It's nearly identical to the M19, costs hundreds less (typically), is far more common, and could of only have shot .38 Special in it's past life.

 

[rswartsell]

The lighter 125 gr and even nowadays 110 gr bullets unquestionably open the "hot gas" window earlier than the .357 loads common when the Mod 19 was with the co-operation (at the behest?) of Bill Jordan developed. The 158 gr was standard, some lighter loads existed but none to my knowledge below 130.

What effect does this have? A longer (in micro-seconds) exposure to hot (perhaps hotter?) gasses making any weak point more vulnerable to the attendant violence of a normal recoil pulse, abrasion from particulate matter, etc.

Add to this the common practice of using FAR more semi-wadcutter loads that might lead the revolver, and something of a perfect storm develops. Jacketed rounds pushing a small wave of residual lead before them (increasing pressure), bathing the truncated cone in hotter gasses for longer than was contemplated, the weak spot gave up.

Well informed users have had many years of trouble free excellent performance even with high energy (not low bullet weight) loads. Caveat emptor and do what you feel is best.

Many people believe the K-frame .357 not only to be a viable magnum but a very good one.

 

[cfullgraf]

Model 19 forcing cones do not just crack with 125 grain loads. Mine did shooting a steady diet of primarily 158 JHP loads.

This was back in the 1980s, S&W replaced the barrel and i still have the revolver and would not trade if for anything--well, maybe a 40mm Bofors.

Now, I mostly shoot only mid range or lighter loads in the Model 19. I rarely get the urge to shoot full house loads any more but would do it in my 686 if I did.

 

[rswartsell]

I have shot 20 years worth of 158 hard cast lead, 158 gr semi-jacketed HP and the occasional 180 gr hc. I NEVER shoot 125 or 110. My Dan Wesson 15-2 does the heavy lifting for hunting, the Colt Lawman Mk III the newfangled SD rounds, and the 19 just keeps ticking.

In the usage envisioned for it I have never had a problem and it handles exceptionally well.

I give credence to the warnings here, but not too much.

 

[J-Bar]

The only other risk I can imagine would be wanting to buy a lot more S&W revolvers... It happened that way with me.

 

[9mmfan]

The only other risk I can imagine would be wanting to buy a lot more S&W revolvers... It happened that way with me.

That and the jealousy of those of us who don't have one. Yet.

 

[Reloadron]

I would be strongly inclined to suggest you pass on any Model 19 revolvers. That would leave more out there available for me.

While I have heard of this problem and thank jhvaughan2 for providing an image I have yet to see the problem on my own Model 19-3 gun. The gun has had a steady diet of 357 moderate loads through it and while I don't count rounds my guess is 1,000 plus since I have owned it.

Ron

 

[SwampWolf]

I doubt that very many owners ever fired a lot of 125 grain Magnum loads out of their revolvers over a long period of time. The cost of doing so is pretty prohibitive, not to mention the accompanying heavy recoil. Take a look at the forcing cones and top straps of used Model 19s as others have suggested. Undue wear in these areas will be pronounced and fairly evident.

 

[rondog]

This is making me grieve for the two gorgeous 6" 19-4's that I used to own, but had to sell in lean times. <snif> I really loved those guns.....

 

[Jim K]

Those barrel ends (the forcing cone is the inside part) are not affected only by hot gas. Erosion is not really the problem; the forcing cone of a Model 19 is just as resistant to erosion as the cones of the L or N frame. The problem with the Model 19 is that the combination of high pressure plus jacketed bullets slamming into the cone can split the thin area of the cone as jhvaughn2 shows in that photograph. Erosion plays only a small part (if any) in the process.

Jim

 

[palmetto99]

I have a 19-4 that was an LEO trade-in. The forcing cone has a little erosion, the top strap has some flame cutting and it's got a lot of holster wear, but man oh man is it a shooter. It locks up solid and has a great action. My point, even as a "beater" the model 19 can still be a great revolver.

 

[cfullgraf]

I doubt that very many owners ever fired a lot of 125 grain Magnum loads out of their revolvers over a long period of time. The cost of doing so is pretty prohibitive, not to mention the accompanying heavy recoil.

Not with reloads back in the day. In the 1980s and 1990s, even with full power loads of 2400 or W296, cost of a box of 357 Magnum reloads was a small fraction of the cost of factory ammunition.

 

[ElToro]

if you can afford to shoot out a model 19 till its broke you can afford another one. buy it. shoot it. love it.

if it really scares you, buy a replacement 19 barrel to keep on hand but i suspect that even your kids wont need that barrel.

 

[Bezoar]

if the only concern is cracking and erosion, just make sure you get in writing a 2 or 3 day review period once it gets recieved by your ffl. Ive noticed that its common for online sellers to put 'no review period" and "no returns" when they use phrases like

"lockup seems good" "barrel looks good"

But ive seen "nra graded' guns for sale online that have the plastic grip melted from heat source, and one side of the barrel without finish called "nra very good to nra fine"

 

[stubbicatt]

I can only report on one Model 19, the one I bought from new. Twice I sent it back to the factory to have the cylinder/barrel gap reset. I shot 158 grain hand cast bullets and 2400 powder thru it exclusively. In my opinion, either the frame stretched or something, and while I dearly loved that revolver, I would get an N frame over this. Say a Model 27.

 

[PabloJ]

Been pondering the Model 19 for awhile now, and am ready to buy once the right one comes along, if only I can get past a concern. I've read several times that the Model 19 can develop issues if too many magnum rounds are shot through it. As such, should I be overly concerned about what previous owners have done if buying used? What sort of inspection should be done, preferably through pictures since I likely will buy online?

Thanks

No problemo Tipro. S&W is offering new stainless magnum K-frame .357. They stand behind what they make. It is state of the art weapon with shrouded barrel, internal lock and state of the art MIM components. I would buy one w/o hesitation if this is type of gun I wanted.