ROA's with conversion cylinder always shoots high, very high!

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Quint

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Recently I bought a R&D .45 caliber conversion cylinder for use in my ROA's. The first time I used it the ROA shot about 12 inches high at 25 yards.Today I took 2 ROA's to the range, along with several different loads. BOTH shot high with all the different loads. Today I shot them at 10 yard targets and they grouped at about 1&1/2 inches but about 7 inches high. The sights are adjusted as low as possible. I can see no excess shaving in the forcing cone. I am starting to think my problem may be the bullets I am using.

All shots were fired using a sand bag rest. The loads I used are as follows, all with the same bullet, 250 grain lead RNFP made by X-Treme. These bullets are .452 diameter;

(1) Unique 9.0 grains
(2) Trail Boss 4.5 grains
(3) Trail Boss 5.1 grains
(4) Trail Boss 5.8 grains
(5) Black MZ 26.5 grains

Then I shot 2 BP cylinder loads, 1 in each gun, loaded with 20 grains of 777 and .457 diameter round balls. All shots from both ROA's were in, or touching, a 2 inch bullseye.

Does anyone have any suggestions??? What diameter or brand of bullets are you using for metallic cartridges ? Any help will be appreciated.
 
Quint said:
Recently I bought a R&D .45 caliber conversion cylinder for use in my ROA's. The first time I used it the ROA shot about 12 inches high at 25 yards.Today I took 2 ROA's to the range, along with several different loads. BOTH shot high with all the different loads. Today I shot them at 10 yard targets and they grouped at about 1&1/2 inches but about 7 inches high. The sights are adjusted as low as possible. I can see no excess shaving in the forcing cone. I am starting to think my problem may be the bullets I am using.

All shots were fired using a sand bag rest. The loads I used are as follows, all with the same bullet, 250 grain lead RNFP made by X-Treme. These bullets are .452 diameter;

(1) Unique 9.0 grains
(2) Trail Boss 4.5 grains
(3) Trail Boss 5.1 grains
(4) Trail Boss 5.8 grains
(5) Black MZ 26.5 grains

Then I shot 2 BP cylinder loads, 1 in each gun, loaded with 20 grains of 777 and .457 diameter round balls. All shots from both ROA's were in, or touching, a 2 inch bullseye.

Does anyone have any suggestions??? What diameter or brand of bullets are you using for metallic cartridges ? Any help will be appreciated.
Click to expand...

It’s your front sight. It’s intended for the much lighter 144 grn round ball. Contact Ruger and they will send you a .45 Colt front sight to install for free, which is what I did for mine, though I haven’t installed it yet.
 
If you've got a ROA target model and it sounds like both of them are, the easiest and most painless solution is to purchase a extra ROA rear sight blade and file it down. That way you can easily put your ROA back to factory by putting the original rear blade in.

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Clembert,
Thanks for that info. It does seem to be the easiest method. One of my ROA's is the stainless model and it has a pin that holds the front sight blade, which would be an easy change; however, the other is a blue model and it does not have a pin. The complete front sight would have to be changed on it. The blade options sounds like it is the simplest answer to my problem. Thanks for your response.
 
Use this calculator to see how much adjustment is needed: https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13093
But you really can't compare POI between an anemic 20 gr load with ball and a fair cartridge load with 250 gr bullet - heavier bullets always hit higher, because the recoil starts at the moment that bullet start to move. If you happen to notice most if not all centerfire revolvers have front sights taller than the rear when sighted in typical (30-50 yards) distances, the barrel is pointed down when shooting - that's for compensating the recoil force pushing the barrel up while the bullet is still in it.
 
Quint said:
Clembert,
Thanks for that info. It does seem to be the easiest method. One of my ROA's is the stainless model and it has a pin that holds the front sight blade, which would be an easy change; however, the other is a blue model and it does not have a pin. The complete front sight would have to be changed on it. The blade options sounds like it is the simplest answer to my problem. Thanks for your response.
Click to expand...

Yup, the front blade doesn't have an adjustment screw so you'll have to deal with whatever height replacement front blade...but you can file it down if it's too tall...but isn't it cheaper and easier to do the rear blade. Good luck...let us know how you get the issue resolved.
 
Mizar said:
Use this calculator to see how much adjustment is needed: https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13093
But you really can't compare POI between an anemic 20 gr load with ball and a fair cartridge load with 250 gr bullet - heavier bullets always hit higher, because the recoil starts at the moment that bullet start to move. If you happen to notice most if not all centerfire revolvers have front sights taller than the rear when sighted in typical (30-50 yards) distances, the barrel is pointed down when shooting - that's for compensating the recoil force pushing the barrel up while the bullet is still in it.
Click to expand...

I always wondered about that but some folks say the bullet is long gone before the weapon has recoiled. I dunno....

HERE's A VIDEO I made a long time ago that suggests this is true. It has nothing to do with the ROA but the firearm was mounted in a test fixture to somewhat approximate recoil but more to measure bullet speed and accuracy in a consistent manner. Anyhow, it seems there's smoke and fire before the firearm recoils. Again, I dunno and this was more about entertainment and taking some other measurements.
 
Clembert,
I agree that working on the rear sight blade makes more sense so I ordered the blade and will post the results after I receive and file it down.

Rodwha,
FYI, Ruger will no longer send a Blackhawk front sight free. Seems they have abandoned the ROA altogether.
 
I had to install a taller front sight and cut my rear sight's notch way down to get it to hit to POA at 35 yds with hot black powder hunting loads. My ClassicBallistx cylinder will hold +35 gr. of 3F black powder and I shoot a 255 grain conical bullet. It has killed a deer so it was worth the trouble.
 
Quint said:
Rodwha,
FYI, Ruger will no longer send a Blackhawk front sight free. Seems they have abandoned the ROA altogether.
Click to expand...

Just get some 1/8" flat stock at the hardware store and cut a piece to match the front sight, complete with the hole. Leave it very tall. Cold blue it and secure it with the pin and epoxy. Then just file it down a bit at a time when sighting it in.
 
Patocazador said:
I had to install a taller front sight and cut my rear sight's notch way down to get it to hit to POA at 35 yds with hot black powder hunting loads. My ClassicBallistx cylinder will hold +35 gr. of 3F black powder and I shoot a 255 grain conical bullet. It has killed a deer so it was worth the trouble.
Click to expand...

Any idea how fast that thing travels?

Have you ever weighed your T7 charge? Curious as it gives others a better idea as to just how much powder it is as everyone’s powder measure throws differently.
 
rodwha said:
Any idea how fast that thing travels?

My chronograph gives goofy reading with black powder loads

Have you ever weighed your T7 charge? Curious as it gives others a better idea as to just how much powder it is as everyone’s powder measure throws differently.
Click to expand...

I've never used Triple Se7en.
I do weigh all my loads. I don't trust a volumetric measure.
 
Patocazador said:
I've never used Triple Se7en.
I do weigh all my loads. I don't trust a volumetric measure.
Click to expand...

Oops! For whatever reason I thought you used T7. Whatcha using?

Maybe a measure isn’t consistent per se, but I’m happy enough with it. Not sure weighing all of my charges would improve things much if any. But were I taking pre measured charges I might be more inclined (and likely would) weigh them all.

Any idea how fast your load is going?
 
Quint said:
Rodwha,
Thanks for the information. I will contact Ruger
Click to expand...
If you ask for a sight for the ROA, they might tell you that they don't carry them anymore, the same front sight is on the Blackhawk, the stainless model, The 1st time I called, they sent me a solder on front sight so be sure it is a pinned on type.
 
Clembert,
I took your suggestion and filed the rear sight blade down a bit, then took the ROA to the range this morning. At 25 yards, with the original 250 grain load the point of impact was only about 5 inches high this time. Obviously that was a great improvement but I need to do a little more work on the blade. Then I fired some 200 and 230 grain bullets and they shot about 3 inches high at 25 yards. I think a bit more grinding on the rear blade and using a 200 or 230 grain bullet will cure my problem. Incidentally, I am only going to use the conversion cylinder in one of the ROA's. The other one will be used strictly for BP substitutes and round balls.

Thanks very much your good pictures and information.

To everyone who responded to this post...I say thanks and I appreciate your input and suggestions. This forum has really been a super great help to me on several of my ROA problems and questions.
 
Sounds like you are well on your way....Your 9.0 Unique loads can be dropped to 7.5 or 8.0 just for grins.
 
We can't find any Unique out here but a friend let me load 6 from his supply, just to try. I have hopes of finding Unique in an upcoming trip to Las Vegas. Right now I have to use either Trail Boss, Bullseye, or 231 since that is all I can find here. Reloaders have access to very limited supplies here.
 
Long before there were conversion cylinders I had a high shooting ROA. I shot round balls and the lee bullet designed for that gun. I like to zero my adjustable sighted revolvers with the rear sight in the middle of its range. I wound up making a taller, Patridge front blade from key stock. Fast forward from '77 to '16. I got a conversion cylinder from Howells. A cowboy level load and a 225 grain button nose wadcutter was dead on at 25 yards with the setting left from forty years ago.
I suspect that your bullet is too heavy.
I also believe, and this is me, that loads for conversions should approximate bp levels and not hot stuff.
I have heard all the stories about ROAs handling cylinders full of Bullseye but think the stories are full of another kind of bull.
I have been a ROA fan since shooting the prototype at Friendship sometime in the early 70s. It is nothing more than a Blackhawk designed for black powder (and I have seen Blackhawks destroyed by 22 grains of Bullseye). Sorry I got off track. Lighter bullets should hit lower. Try a 200 swc before you go to a lot of work with files.
 
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I have recently been out my ROA shooting a 200 grn semi wad cutter with a truncated cone. I noticed it shoots 100 yards level sights. This works for me as I am shooting at Jackrabbits anywhere from 50 to 120 yds on a regular basis. Every cap and ball revolver I have owned has shot level sights at 100 yards.
 
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