Robinson Xcr Rifles?

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Rifleman 173

Rifleman 173

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May 24, 2007
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426
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Central Illinois
I am looking at possibly getting a Robinson XCR rifle in 7.62 X 39 caliber. I keep hearing really good things about them. Anybody in this forum have one? What do you think of your rifle? Are magazines reliable in the 7.62 X 39 caliber? Any pictures of your set-up available? I'm looking at mounting a Millett DMS-1 scope on top of it when or if I get one. It may not be until the beginning of November or the end of this month...
 
I have one in 5.56 and I love it.

The left side charging handle is so much better then the standard AR charging handle.The bolt release is much more ergonomic since it is at the Mag Well instead of on the left side of the reciever. The safety is easier use also since it rotates 60 degrees instead of 90 degrees. The XCR is much easier to clean since it has a AK style operating system.

I do not have a 7.62 x 39 but from what I have read the magazines by C-Products are relieble now but in the beginning they were not.

I have the Millet DMS-1 on mine and it works great.

My XCR
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AR and XCR Op System
XCRvsAR2.gif

AR and XCR Bolt
XCRvsAR4.gif
 
Other than costing too much, there's a lot to like about the xcr. Currently, I rather have the 3 AK's that you could buy with the same money, but someday I'll have and xcr, when the stars all line up perfectly, or something like that...
 
The XCR is actually, I suspect, going to be priced very competetively when compared against the competition. Right now that competition consists of the first few LMT Piston MRP's trickling out the door. The MSRP's I've seen for that unit are 1995 for the whole rifle (that *might* include iron sights; I'm not sure); and 1450 for just the upper. My XCR with ambi selector was 1475 out the door for the basic rifle/no sights. And I would give the edge in capability (on paper at least) to the XCR as well due to the stock and the more robust looking bolt (though I would really like a piston MRP for some direct comparisons. :))

The 7.62x39 XCR rifles have gotten pretty good reviews so far. Only real complaint I've seen is that the standard hammer springs are not strong enough to pop the primer with tremendous consistency on some of the harder Russian brands of ammo. RA is now shipping a stronger hammer spring with all 7.62x39 kits and factory rifles that seems to have taken care of that.

The new C Products 7.62x39 AR15 30rd mag is shipped with the rifle. As mentioned, some of these magazines have been discovered to have the feed lips out of spec, and C Prod has been doing free replacements on these. Reports from people shooting with in-spec mags have been very positive. Hopefully its just a matter of C Prod getting their production process refined and ramped up properly.

Overall, if this rifle appeals to you, I think now would be a fine time to buy one. The initial kinks are known and being/been addressed.
 
tacweapon, holy cow - nice rifle! I'm not worthyyyyyyy!
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Thanks, I realy like it. I plan on putting it through its paces this weekend I am going to Pat Goodales Tactical Patrol Rifle course. I will try to post a review when I get back on Sunday.
 
I bought my XCR back when they were first hitting the market in early 2006. It's number is under 700 and at first, RA had a few refining issues which they addressed on my XCR free of charge. They had a firing pin recall to address inertia issues(FN had the same recall with their FS2000), then they improved the gas system. I was working out in the Arizona desert at the time and my XCR was not cycling Winchester Ranger 55gr SP at all. This ammunition was also causing cycling problems for our duty M4s due to the environment. I called up Alex at RA and told him about my problem, he shipped me a new gas assembly free of charge and my rifle has been 100% ever since. Since then RA has been using the new gas system on all their rifles. RA just didn't anticipate the use of such weak gas bleeding in the environment that I was in. I haven't done a whole lot to the rifle otherwise.....added a Vortex flashhider(improved accuracy), attached a tac-sling with mount, added fixed tritium sights, and a better pistol grip. The rifle has served me well and I enjoy using it much more than any other rifle I've used before. I hope to convert it to shoot 6.8 SPC in the future once my finances recover from buying a new car for my wife.
 
Other than costing too much, there's a lot to like about the xcr.
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The XCR is admittedly expensive, but take a top end AR (or AK) and trick it out as close as you can to XCR as-issued trim. Add up the cost of everything and see where you are. Then consider that the XCR can do things that neither the AR or AK can.

ASSUMING you want or need (lets face it, for 99% of us, it's not 'need') the unique features of the XCR, it's not a bad deal. Plus, unlike the Masada/ACR, you can actually own one.

Mike :)
 
Tacweapon, tell me about the Millett scope on your XCR. I have a DMS-1 and I love it but how does it work with the XCR? Do you have decent accuracy or really great accuracy? Are you using the rifle/scope as your go to rifle for everything or using it for specific purposes like competition shooting? Is that a 3 point sling I saw on your rifle and how do you like that as compared to a 1 point sling? Got some more pictures of the rifle being used at the range? What distance has been your farthest shot or groups of shots?

What kind of rings are you using to mount your scope to the rifle. Those are obviously not a LaRue SPR-E mount system that so many seem to like. By chance are those high, medium or low height rings and are they quick detach or not?

Thanks much for any information you can provide...
 
Right now that competition consists of the first few LMT Piston MRP's trickling out the door
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Don't forget the POF-USA GP AR. it is very close to what the XCR is(better in some ways), but costs a little more, and is a little more accurate, IMO. All have match barrels factory.


just curious, what kind of barrel does the XCR come with? Crome lined, SS, cromoly?
:)
 
POF makes AR-15s into piston operated rifles. The XCR and the POF design are quite different.
 
The Millet works great on the XCR but I do not shoot for bulls eye as much as I shoot for practical accuracy. I zeroed the scope at 100 yards and was easily able to group on the target the furthest I have been able to shoot is about 260 yards and I was still able to group on the target. The XCR is my go to rifle and I normally have the Millet on it but for hunting season I am going to put a 3x12 on it. It is a 3 point sling I like it better then a 1 point because it is more secure, but it is just personal preference. I do have some pics and videos from the range but I will not be able to post them until Monday, but if you want to see them beforehand go to photobucket and search users for tacweapon and they are there I also have Youtube videos under pah269. I am using just normal 30mm scope rings for now but I plan switch to the Larue sometime, I think the rings are medium or high not sure though. Let me know if you have any more questions,
 
i know, the poster i quoted was talking about the LMT piston ar, and i just decided to add in POF.
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I will admit that I am not real familiar with the POF design, but as I understand it, it uses a standard upper/standard AR15 barrel/standard receiver-to-barrel interface, is that correct? If so, that makes it basically 90% AR15; just with a piston instead of a DI gas tube (and maybe a different carrier?).

The XCR, and now the piston MRP go beyond that. They are in the SCARspec realm capability: Monolithic fully railed uppers, free floated quick change barrels in multiple calibers. Piston operation. *Fully* adjustable stocks. (the piston MRP falls a little short here because its stock will never fold, but thats the only knock against it from what I can see so far.) I don't really think of the piston MRP as an AR15 anymore. The only major part on the upper that is AR15 compatible is the bolt sans gas rings, it looks like. (and the carrier's small parts). I think of it as a new rifle that just happens to use an AR15 lower.

There are currently no other rifles on the market that can match that feature set. The ACR and the FN SCAR will play in the same space if/when they are released.

just curious, what kind of barrel does the XCR come with? Crome lined, SS, cromoly?
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All the XCR barrels are chrome lined except for a very small run of 1:8 SS 5.56 barrels that were produced a while back. I think it is virtually impossible to get your hands on one of those now. Since they went out of production I haven't seen any of the owners willing to part with them.

The 5.56 barrels, as mentioned are chrome lined bore and chamber, 1:9 twist, and available in two profiles; heavy and light. Most are 16", but you can order one that is factory shortened as well if you have an SBR. Alternately you can have a gunsmith shorten a 16" as well.

I do not know the twist rate of the 6.8 and 7.62x39 barrels right off hand. They are, as far as I know, only available in one profile, but can also be ordered in shortened lengths from the factory.

With RA producing their own barrels now rather than outsourcing it, I am hoping the barrel selection will gradually improve. It would be nice if they would permanently add a match grade barrel, for instance. Right now their primary projects are release of the SCARspec fully adjustable factory stock, and factory improved/match trigger. Both will be good things to have available.
 
I will admit that I am not real familiar with the POF design, but as I understand it, it uses a standard upper/standard AR15 barrel/standard receiver-to-barrel interface, is that correct? If so, that makes it basically 90% AR15; just with a piston instead of a DI gas tube (and maybe a different carrier?).
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the only thing the same on my POF is the stripped upper reciever (and even that may be different) well, the bolt. everything else is different. kinda like the MRP. the carrier is a solid piece of metal, the key (or post in this case) is not staked on, it is part of the whole thing.
:)


I think of it as a new rifle that just happens to use an AR15 lower.
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The POF is the same way. The only thing the MRP has on my POF 18" SPR is a QCB system. Mine has a fully adjustable stock too....:D
 
The XCR, and now the piston MRP go beyond that. They are in the SCARspec realm capability: Monolithic fully railed uppers, free floated quick change barrels in multiple calibers. Piston operation. *Fully* adjustable stocks.
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And - it's not just "piston operation", of which there are several different types, with the most reliable type being the kalashnikov type, where the piston, piston rod and bolt carrier are all one monolithic piece, unlike a "stroke" gas piston system (such as a gas piston "AR"), where inertia is relied upon after the op-rod ceases contact with the bolt carrier, which is all well and good until the force acting against the inertia changes due to being dirty or whatever. The XCR, like the AK47, does not rely on inertia at all. The bolt carrier moves directly and completely, all the way through its movement, through the rod which is being moved as directly attached and acting on direct gas force against the piston. Sorry, I'm not very good at describing this. So, the XCR has the operating system of the AK, which is unequaled in its (deserved) reputation for reliability.

With the XCR, you have the perfect marriage of AR and AK, plus some bonus features and modularity, and it actually exists.

Can anything top the XCR or equal it as the pinnacle of military-style rifle design? Emphatically, no. Not at present. In my opinion. Oh, and it's made in the U.S. of A., as another added bonus. To me, it's worth every penny.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robinson+xcr&search_type=
 
The POF is the same way. The only thing the MRP has on my POF 18" SPR is a QCB system. Mine has a fully adjustable stock too....
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...The Monolithic Rail Platform is also.. well... monolithic. :) I've not nothing against the POF; I'm sure it is a fine rifle, but it is not a SCAR type rifle. It is an AR15+piston. The charging handle will also keep the cheek piece from being fully adjustable... though that will be a limitation on the MRP also.

As far as the XCR, it has some AR15 ergonomics and magwell inspiration (though I believe the XCR magwell is superior to that of an AR15); obviously a lot of AK inspiration in the long stroke piston/carrier/bolt design, and I think there is a lot of FAL mixed in there too (bolt catch, charging handle, gas system functionality are all very FAL like). Personally I think the combination gas plug/regulator on the XCR is a better design than the plug and separate regulator sleeve on the FAL.

And - it's not just "piston operation", of which there are several different types, with the most reliable type being the kalashnikov type, where the piston, piston rod and bolt carrier are all one monolithic piece, unlike a "stroke" gas piston system (such as a gas piston "AR"), where inertia is relied upon after the op-rod ceases contact with the bolt carrier, which is all well and good until the force acting against the inertia changes due to being dirty or whatever. The XCR, like the AK47, does not rely on inertia at all. The bolt carrier moves directly and completely, all the way through its movement, through the rod which is being moved as directly attached and acting on direct gas force against the piston. Sorry, I'm not very good at describing this. So, the XCR has the operating system of the AK, which is unequaled in its (deserved) reputation for reliability.
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You are speaking of the difference between a long stroke piston like the AK (where the piston and the carrier are attached) and a short stroke piston like the FAL (where the carrier continues rearward after the piston stops). Both systems have proven themselves in concept, beyond question, on their respective platforms of course.
 
Both systems have proven themselves in concept, beyond question, on their respective platforms of course.
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Yes, true. But, which one is deemed the end-all, be-all of to-hell-and-back reliability when the gun is full of dirt, sand, mud, etc.? :p
 
Now all we need is Alex at RA to give birth to the XCR-M in 7.62x51 and I will be a very very happy camper.

Although I will admit to a hankering after the Kel-Tec RFB.....hey I'm ex British Army I likes me a bullpup.

Damn, now must hide 2 x the pennies from "She who must be obeyed"......
 
it is very close to what the XCR is(better in some ways), but costs a little more, and is a little more accurate, IMO
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Just how is it "better"? Higher price? How much more accurate is it? (Accuracy shouldn't be an opinion)

And the next question. Is it better in 6.8 SPC? oh it ain't available in 6.8. How about 7.62X39? Oh, it ain't available in 7.62x39 either! Then I am sure you can shoot 6.5 Grendel in your rifle? NO? I can shoot all three in addition to 5.56 NATO in my one rifle top and bottom. Just need a caliber kit. Go to Robarm.com. I am planning to the the 7.62x39 by the end of the year for mine. I am thinking of getting it in the SBR variant.

I can shoot everyone of the calibers above with a conversion kit in the same rifle that I shoot my 5.56 NATO in. Just caliber kits. They go for $549 right now. Much cheaper than buying another rifle. Short barrels are available too. That quick change barrel capability allows very good barrel and breech cleaning much easier than most weapons. And the action usually only needs light to moderate cleaning anyway. One of the nice secondary advantages of almost all piston systems.

The XCR shoots Wolf ammo without incident (remember that adjustable gas system) with the chromed chamber/barrel. You can see those robust locking lugs. They ain't going to break like the "girly man" lugs on an AR system bolt. And I like that big robust extractor on the XCR bolt.

Is it perfect? Of course not. Just very good and right now I believe better than anything else I can get in any practical manner. Minimal mechanical problems. Biggest problem was folks whining about not being able to get various NEW kits or different type parts when they said they would be making them. Of course I don't know one weapons manufacturer without that problem. NONE! Maybe you know the one that can prove the rule.

I think it is great that we are finally getting alternatives to the poorly conceived gas impingement system. Not just the XCR. I am hoping that within 10 years we can get the widowmaker out of our troops hands. I frankly don't care who designs or makes it at this point. I have been waiting for 40 years.

By the way, as to price. Most of the high level, operators, instructors and such recommend the COLT 6920 model. I haven't been able to find it for less than 1350 +/-. I haven't looked recently though. They ain't got cheaper though. Then many folks need to get a rail system and change stocks too. Now where is your base price now besides way up.

I mount an Aimpoint and Larue FUG grip on my carbine. I have quick disconnect Larue mounts on my white light, Aimpoint 3x magnifier in a quick detach pivoting Larue mount. I only carry the accessories needed for the mission at the moment. At home the white light is attached for Home Defense(Surefire 9P with LED head). IN the field the Magnifier may be attached. I use the Magpul MIAD grip, With a Samson front flip sight and a ARMS 40Lsp for the rear end of the BUIS setup. ( I do drink the Larue Tactical "kool Aid". WWW.LarueTactical.com)

I like the weapon. I am confident, and enjoy shooting it.

Good luck.

Fred
 
That *IS* a conundrum, isn't it? RFB, no XCR-M, no RFB, no......

Sod's Law means that they will both be released at the same, now if there's a 6 month gap I'll save the pennies and see about both. If both arrive at the same time I'll be like the mule that starved to death between 2 bales of hay........:uhoh:
 
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