Ruger ar556 vs Howa Varminter for midrange

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webrx

webrx

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Howa Varminter for midrange

Hi all,

I have a Ruger AR556 (model 8500 1/8 twist) and have an option to get a NIB Howa Varminter with heavy fluted Barrel and Hogue stock (1/9 twist) for a really good price (sub $500 out the door) in .223

My son (he is 14) is interested in some midrange shooting (300-600 yards) for paper and possibly some varminting (Coyotes, ground hogs, and Jack Rabbits)

The AR currently sports a red dot, and I have not gotten the Howa yet.

I obviously could scope the AR and it has a faster twist and what ruger calls a medium contour barrel

We have other rifles in 243, 270, and even a 9mm carbine, so not looking to hear "get a 308" I am mainly thinking .223 due to lower recoil and that not affecting his learning at this point. Also, I cant get this rifle in 6.5 CM in this profile or price, so that is out as well.

So basically, anyone shot the Howa Varmint, and how much significance is the difference in twist going to make at mid range distances

Thanks for you thoughts

Dave
 
Last edited:
After further review, and not wanting to start another auto vs bolt thread, maybe the better question is, has anyone shot the Howa Varminter in .223 and have any thoughts on this particular rifle?

I ordered dies today for .223 so I will be loading for it. I just want to get my son a decent platform to start working on accuracy out to mid-range and dont want to spend a fortune on a rifle until we see if he sticks to it. Plus with a .223 bolt I can always use it for rabbits, groundhogs and coyotes if he does not stick.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Dave
 
The Howa? No, haven't shot it. That said I very much enjoy my bolt gun in .223 Remington. I have several AR types but never tire of laying shots in at 200 plus yards with the bolt gun. Personally, be it Howa or another brand, I would add a bolt gun to the .223 Remington mix.

Ron
 
the howa would be an excellent 0-300 yard varmint gun. you already have a 300-600 yard gun in your 243 win.

the howa is probably a 1:14 twist. 55 grain bullets or less will work in that gun.

this sounds like a good plan for varmint hunting.

murf
 
Thanks for the replies

The hoya is actually a 1 in 9 twist so should be ok for 77gr and less if my research us correct.

Dave
 
A .223 bolt rifle is a very good in stem tin my book. The 1:9 would be fine for what you're talking about.
No tengo Howa, but expect they would be great.

Greg
 
I load for a savage bolt gun with a 1/9 twist. It loves 69g matchkings but won't stabilize 75g Amax. I have shot the 69g well (MOA) out to 500, but you really, really have to read the wind.

Those 77g in the Howa might not work..

I like my Savage but wish it were a 1/8 or even 1/7.

Hope this helps.
 
Notice the horizontal dispersion open up at 500 yards (shot same day, similar breeze). Maybe the 77 grainers would be a bit better? Sorry the pictures are sideways...
 

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ordered the rifle yesterday, should be here by weeks end. Howa heavy barrel (fluted) Vaminter, green hogue stock aluminum bedded, 1/9 twist. picked up some Hornady 60 gr pills to reload also have some factory 55 loads, no 69 mks in the LGs, but I will keep my eyes open and grab some when I find them. everything I am reading says to try 52s to 77s and see what the rifle likes best.

Peakbagger, did you sight in at 200yds and make all adjustments from there? Was wondering if I should sight him in at 100 or 200, doing research now. Nice shooting btw, I would be happy if this rifle does that.

Thanks for the input I think my son is going to like this rifle - not me of course, I may never be able to shoot it once he gets a hold of it.

Time to find some decent glass now......

Dave
 
Dave, hope that Howa works out, seems like they have a great reputation! I zero at 200 so I have more adjustment left in my scope turret for longer shots. Wish I had something like a 4-12 with either a good ballistic reticle of some sort and/or turrets with mil adjustments. Targets look really small at 500 with 9X.

What's the barrel length on the Howa? I think I am at 3,000fps with the matchkings, but the 26" on my savage might help a bit.
 
With the 1/9 twist, you probably aren't going to get anything heavier than a 69 grain bullet to stabilize. The 69 is still a good bullet as I have shot 4" diameter groups at 440 yards in moderate wind with a Mossberg Predator which also has a 1/9 twist barrel.

Get a good scope for the rifle that has a graduated reticle and zero it at 100. I like the Vortex PST and HS line of scopes with the mil reticle and mil adjustment knobs. Primary Arms also has a decent 4-14x first focal plane scope with their HUD DMR reticle.

223 is a fun caliber and extremely versatile, and a great way to learn marksmanship and reading wind.
 
I actually have a 4x12x40 new in box I bought back during the black friday sale, I forgot about, I will throw that on it for starters it has the EXT reticle in it. Not top of the line by any means, Cabelas Alpha series, but since I already have it, i might as well use it to break in this barrel and put a few shots downrange until I get something better. I have Nikon glass on my hunting rifles, but was thinking of finding something nicer for this rifle I can probably scrape together a few hundred dollars to get some decent glass.

20" barrel on this one couldn't get the 24 in fluted on this deal for this caliber.

Going to see if I can find some 69gr at the LGS tomorrow, want to shoot a few boxes of factory through it before I go to hand loads just to get a baseline and season the barrel a little. Want to know what it does without the variable of my handloads.

Dave
 
Hi all,

Circling back, sorry I didn't get pictures, I will next time.

Got the Howa, broke it in and sighted it in, using the windex and copper cleaner method cleaning between rounds the first ten, and then after every two the next ten. Just for the record, I did not see any copper after 3 shots so not sure it was worth it, but that is what the instructions said.

In any case, got cloverleafs at 25, pushed it to 100 and readjusted, we were shooting 55 grain, federal, pmc and some perfecta. At that point my son took over and I did not get to touch the rifle the rest of the day so no real idea how it groups. I do know he was able to ring steel at 300, 400 and 500 and he threw a few shots at 700 but did not hit - it was getting windy about that time. Pretty sure he likes it cuz he never got bored and we were at the range a couple hours.

I will try to get some groups next time out.

Thanks again for all the input and advice.

Dave
 
bought some 60gr Hornady's and 69 gr sierras, just need to load them up for next time and do some testing to see what the rifle likes best.

d
 
Circling back in case there is any interest.

Put 50 Sierra 69gr through it this weekend, rifle really liked this load (21 gr imr-3031), but I have to admit, it was a comparison against Walmart perfecta ammo, and PMC both in 55gr loads.

under an inch at 100, and then my son took over the rifle again while I played with dialing in the Ruger AR-556.

Howa 1500 Varmint, he was nailing steel out to 500 in a 5-7 mph wind consistently.

Ruger AR-556, I was also able to shoot the reloads as well as some Tulammo we brought with us, not as consistent as the Howa, but, also does not have as nice a trigger. I think that is the major weakness in the Ruger AR, the factory trigger is really heavy, so is probably the next upgrade, something around 3.5 to 4 lbs would be nice. any recommendations? I think whatever I get I want a drop in group, and ideally an adjustable one.

So, from my perspective, either rifle will work at 500 yards or less as a steel plinking rifle, even in a mild breeze. MSRP on the Howa (in the Varmint and fluted barrel config) and the Ruger are similar if you are buying from the LGS, has a much nicer trigger out of the box, we have not had to adjust it, and it is a much nicer/more pleasant rifle to shoot. Recoil is minimal, had two 14 year olds shooting it and no issues, no concerns. I like my AR, but I like the Howa better for mid-range target/varmint shooting, so did everyone else that was shooting with us yesterday (3 adults and two teens).

disclaimer:
I am not an expert, and I don't play one on TV, this is purely my opinion, and YMMV

Just for the record, I followed the recommended break-in procedure, I am not 100% convinced you need to break in a barrel, but, we did follow it to the letter as this was what was recommended by the manufacturer, and the rifle is shooting just under MOA at 100 yards with this amateur behind the trigger.

Dave
 
Nice. I bet if you mess with seating depth and rel 15 or varget you could cut that in half.
 
Have not been able to find Varget locally for a while now but i keep looking.

I do have some 60gr Hornady's so might give those a try next time. want to check some different loads/powders with the 69s as well.

thanks

d
 
I have a howa 1500 varminter 20 " heavy barrel in .308. I use it for hunting deer. It has the pillar bedded Hogue stock, 3 pos safety, 2-stage trigger. It came rifle only and cost me $550 plus tax 5 years ago. I'd say your $500 deal is pretty good, as you're getting a scope you can always replace.
 
Have not been able to find Varget locally for a while now but i keep looking.
Click to expand...
Too bad you're not closer. I have two 8# and a couple of 1's. I'd give you some to try. I use it in my .223, 243, and .300 Savage.
 
This is a decent deal on a much improved trigger my son installed in our M&P 15 Sports. We got ours on sale for $69.00. I really like mine.
 
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