Ruger Blackhawk, .30 Carbine; Money Pit

[444]

I have a local reputation for pouring money into used guns and ending up spending twice what it would cost to buy a new one. My .30 Carbine Blackhawk is no exception. I always wanted a Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. I had the Single Six, the .357/9mm convertible Blackhawk, the .45 Colt/.45 ACP Blackhawk, and a Super Blackhawk. But I could never justify the .30 Carbine. The ballistics certainly don't make it worthwhile. But for some reason it always intrigued me. So, when I came across one used at a local store, I couldn't pass it up. That was my first mistake. I took it out to shoot for the first time and most of the rounds wouldn't fire. I tried a spring kit and it didn't help. I then sent it away to my usual gunsmith. He checked it out, said he worked on it, said it worked fine, and I then had him re-blue it. The bill was about half what I paid for the gun. I get the gun home and the problem is better but not eliminated. I tried factory loads, I tried hand loads. Still got frequent misfires. So, I sent it back to the factory. It came back not much better than it went in. So, I had a buddy install the Power Custom hammer and trigger set. Now it fires every time and I have a smooth action and great trigger pull to boot. In addition I added the steel ejector rod housing, a Belt Mountain base pin, a Bowen rear sight, and a set of real nice oversized rosewood grips. I just finished installing the rear sight and haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I do believe I am finally done with yet another money pit project. I probably could have had someone like Gary Reeder or Bowen build me up a custom gun for what I have in this thing. But, I don't really have a problem spending the money on these used guns. It is like getting a dog from the pound. And, buying a new gun wouldn't have any of the cool aftermarket stuff on it anyway.
I don't know what purpose I have for owning it other than a novelty. If nothing else I have a revolver that I shoot Spitzer bullets out of.

 

[Jim Watson]

From these two posts, sounds like you need a new "usual gunsmith."

 

[444]

You may have a point there.
I have made a lot of mistakes over the years with gunsmiths. I realized that you can have the work done by a nationally known gunsmith for the same money I pay these dolts. Now all I need is to find a few of them. I went through a similar episode with a Springfield Armory 1911 that was a lemon out of the box, made worse by two or three local "gunsmiths". I finally sent it to Clarks Custom Guns and it is a work of art.
In my "usual" gunsmith's defense. He has done a lot of little work for me and done a good job at it. The only reason I had him work on my Model 27 was because I called every source I could find looking for a replacement 6" barrel and it turned out that he was the only one that had one. With this Blackhhawk, I figured the problem was simple and I wanted the gun reblued. He has done blueing for me in the past and has done a nice job. As you say though, after a couple sour experiences, I will probably send him less and less stuff.

 

[Kahr carrier]

 

[Jim Watson]

I was smarting off.
I do not have an answer.

I know a local 1911 specialist who can do anything to one of them but will not take on precision work on anything else. He has installed some sights and sawn the barrel off my IDPA revolvers but won't do internal work beyond a basic deburr and lube "duty action job" on guns he does not have tooling and knowhow on. So I shoot a lot of 1911.

There is a nationally established S&W man nearby, but he is not at present active. Something about the space industry paying better than gunsmithing. I have one gun from his shop. Maybe I'll get another when he retires...

I have been disappointed with several magazine centerfold mailorder gunsmiths.

Credit where credit is due:
I have a Sig Sauer with slick action from Teddy Jacobson, a smooth Python from Reeves Jungkind, and a nice SAA from Eddie Janis.

I have some pretty good guns from other shops but they took from two to five trips to get right. Back when regular UPS was $7 and we were not paying them to protect us from theft by their employees.

I have one gun nicely set up by a gunsmith I met at a match and could look at his work. The one he did for me looked and felt very nice. It just didn't work and he could not fix it on the second go-round. I and a local machinist figured out the problem and fixed it. It wasn't the gunsmith's fault, exactly. It was a factory flaw that he could not find. Of course by then the gun was heavily modified and I could not reasonably send it back on warranty. Moral of that story is to testfire a gun thoroughly before having it customized. Get it working before you get it fancy.

 

[mec]

People really like 30 carb rugers. Just about everybody knows it ain't the most practical caliber out there but nobody seems to care-they enjoy them anyway. You can actually get some pretty good PlusV loads if you find some of the old 90 and 93 grain 30 luger bullets and zoom them out to 1700 fps or so. The Ruger Carbs always seem to be accurate too.

Your springfield armory sounds like it was up to factory expectations. I bought a milspec a while back. The good part was the frame to slide fit is really good. Otherwise:
1. The titanium fast lock time 31 grain firing pin made the gun so safe that it would not always set off primers - happened alot with cci of course- got an Ed Brown heavy duty pin and fixed that;
2. the slide was bored off-center for the barrel and overlarge- Alex Hamilton at Tenring Precision fixed that and it will outshoot my target grade revolvers now;
3. The extractor came without tension and would have jammed on everything if i hadn't corrected it before going to the range
4. At just under 1,000 rounds, the extractor relaxed and quit working- a local enthusiast fitted my new wilson extractor.

I am still waiting to see if any other problems show up. Years ago, I had a springfield armory with a soft firing pin that would peen itself into the slide stop. Then part of the lockwork broke loose and it quite working. - They don't care about what they are doing.

 

[444]

Thanks for the comments MEC.
I was out shooting the .30 Carbine today. I am not out of the woods yet. It shoots high with the rear sight all the way down, so I need to look into a taller front sight.
As far as loads go, I have some 85 grain softpoints that I originally bought for use in 7.62x25. They clocked around 1760 out of my .30 Carbine Blackhawk. I also shot a few different 110 grain loads. Sierra Varminteers, hardball of course, and some 110 grain softpoints.
As you say, I have read a lot of good stuff about the .30 Carbine Blackhawks over the years. The people that have them seem to enjoy them. I hope I can become one of the ones that enjoys it.

As for the Springfield, mine was not accurate. The first time I shot it, I was lucky to stay on paper at 25 yards. I had my Colt with me and could easily stay in the black with my worst mistake shots. A buddy was shooting his Springfield with me that day and said he had a Bar-Sto barrel in his, so he stripped his gun and I put the barrel in mine. Voila ! Nice and accurate. So I bought a Bar-Sto barrel. I had it "fitted" by a local guy who claims to have been an armour for an Army pistol team. When I got it back, it was too tight and the slide wouldn't go into battery. So, I sent it to Bar-Sto. Got it back not much better than I sent it. So, I sent it to Clark Custom Guns. I had an accuracy job, and a trigger job done on it. It was guarenteed to shoot into 2 1/2" at 50 yards with 10 rounds and they supply the test target to prove it. It now shoots like a dream. Once again, why didn't I go with the big name smith that guarentees his work. Clarks has been working on 1911s for 50 years.

 

[mec]

When the extractor relaxed, I left mine at the shop where I had bought it. they had a local "gunsmith" come by and pick up jobs from time to time but he chose this time to quit. Said their books weren't right but this was just more of his nonsense. He has some extremely wierd ideas about things and can totally demolish a Smith&Wesson with one of his action jobs. Fitting an extractor is one of the things he can do when he decides to do it.

He is totally reliable in one key respect. When he decides not to do something, he is steadfast in his determination and will not do it.

The last 30 carb Ruger I shot was about 1.5-2 inches high at 25 with the sight screwed down. Same thing happens with the super blackhawks when you go to 300 grain bullet- only they shoot a lot higher than that.

 

[dude]

I dare to ask......why would anyone think that the ballistics of the .30 Carbine would not make the purchase wothwhile?? The one I had seemed to shoot quite flat and fast!

 

[444]

ballistics of the .30 Carbine

As was noted in my previous post, I am able to get over 1700 fps out of an 85 grain bullet. The same gun in a .357 can give me that kind of velocity with a 125 grain bullet. You can come close with a 158 if you want to push things a little. The standard GI load in a .30 Carbine, CARBINE is a 110 grain bullet at somewhere around 1900 fps. I can get more velocity than that from a .357 HANDGUN using published load data from a major powder manufacturer.

All that being said, I am not out to get top performance out of every round I fire. In fact the vast majority of the rounds I fire are well below max. And, I don't have any burning desire to justify all my gun purchases with some valid reason why I need to own it. A lot of stuff I own is just for fun and this is one of those items. Heck, yesterday I put 50 rounds through a Colt Junior in .25 ACP. But I always enjoy discussions of the relative merits of various guns and their cartridges, and the .30 Carbine is no different.

 

[dude]

I have yet to get into FPS-issues and shoot %95 factory ammo just for fun. The .44Mag reloading I do is boring-ly just what the Nosler book recomends..........no idea of the actuall performance, but have a great time shooting!

However, if I did want to really (really) get heavy into the specs & stuff, the Nosler factory & pro shop is only a 10 minute walk away!