As an instructor for basic firearms classes I see a lot of students, particularly women, that are looking for a SD gun for around the house or carry. Many seem to have difficulty with semi auto's with respect to racking the slide, clearing malfunctions, and loading magazines, and general maintenance. Our classes basic are not long enough or detailed enough to absolutely guarantee a student will remember everything they are taught. That turns us to the easiest to manage for everyone, revolvers. I find it is easier to teach people to shoot revolvers accurately than deal with the above issues with respect to semi autos. The S&W small frames are great but ammo costs prevent many from returning for practice on a regular basis. Am I way off base looking into the new Ruger LCR .22 as an option for some students? It has 8 rounds and can be loaded with hot ammo that is much easier for some people to manage and practice with. I know, that I do not want to be standing in front of anyone with any firearm pointed at me and my thoughts are one or two well placed shots should stop most threats. If they practice with, and feel the need for, a larger caliber they can invest in one at a later date and they still have the .22 to bring to the range on a regular basis. Am I way off base?
Ruger LCP .22 for self defense?
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wannabeagunsmith
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Sir, the LCP is a .380.
There is a new LCR chambered in 22lr, which i believe is what he was talking about.
To answer the OP, the 22 isn't the most powerful defense round. But it will do the job, just might take an extra round or two. But as with any round, its all about placement, if you cant hit em with a 45acp, then having a 45 ain't going to do ya a lick of good.
To answer the OP, the 22 isn't the most powerful defense round. But it will do the job, just might take an extra round or two. But as with any round, its all about placement, if you cant hit em with a 45acp, then having a 45 ain't going to do ya a lick of good.
walker944
Member
Yeah, I got a bit confused too. I think the confusion is in the thread title. I believe the OP means LCR .22; not LCP .22. But, he got it right in the body of his comments.
I don't see any problem with people using a .22 LR for self defense, if that's ALL they can manage. My dad is 84 and is only comfortable with a .22 at this stage in his life and physical capabilities. I'm just glad he's still safety aware and conscientious of person protection.
I don't see any problem with people using a .22 LR for self defense, if that's ALL they can manage. My dad is 84 and is only comfortable with a .22 at this stage in his life and physical capabilities. I'm just glad he's still safety aware and conscientious of person protection.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have and sometimes carry a CT laser-grip equipped S&W 317 8-shot .22 revolver stoked with CCI Mini-Mag solids.
Perhaps not as good as a .45 ACP or something.
But I pity the fool that gets in front of it if he values his sinus cavities or heart & lungs.
IMO: The same gun in .22 WMR would be an even better SD choice.
rc
Perhaps not as good as a .45 ACP or something.
But I pity the fool that gets in front of it if he values his sinus cavities or heart & lungs.
IMO: The same gun in .22 WMR would be an even better SD choice.
rc
punkndisorderly
Member
It's a personal choice, but I would strongly recommend against the. 22 (or. 25 or. 32) for self defense in most cases. Ditto snubbies and ultra compact pistols. The only exceptions:
-the person is physically unable to handle anything of bigger caliber due to infirmity
-the person is unwilling to obtain enough training to handle a larger caliber (but is willing to obtain the training to become at least safe to themselves and others)
-anything larger will be left at home where it will do no good at all
Yes, a .22 can do the job. In many instances, the sight of a gun may result in the threat breaking contact. Yes, in many instances shots with a .22 will result in the attacker breaking contact. Yes, a .22 can incapacitate and/or kill. However, if i'm ever forced to draw and fire, I don't want to handicap myself any more than I already am by using a pistol (as opposed to rifle, shotgun, or howitzer). I want to dump as many rounds of the largest diameter possible into center mass as quickly as I can get them there, repeating until whoever i'm shooting stops whatever it was I started shooting him for to begin with.
Some argue "if you don't think .22 is sufficient, stand there and let me empty one into you". I hate this argument. That assumes I won't be firing back at the same time (which means you want to put me down as quickly as possible).
Also, I don't want to be stabbed with a knife, but don't leave my gun at home in favor of one.
I don't want to be kicked in the junk, but don't leave my gun at home on favor of a pair of pointy boots.
I don't want to be rubbed on by a half-naked gat guy, but I don't leave my gun at home on favor of a speedo.
-the person is physically unable to handle anything of bigger caliber due to infirmity
-the person is unwilling to obtain enough training to handle a larger caliber (but is willing to obtain the training to become at least safe to themselves and others)
-anything larger will be left at home where it will do no good at all
Yes, a .22 can do the job. In many instances, the sight of a gun may result in the threat breaking contact. Yes, in many instances shots with a .22 will result in the attacker breaking contact. Yes, a .22 can incapacitate and/or kill. However, if i'm ever forced to draw and fire, I don't want to handicap myself any more than I already am by using a pistol (as opposed to rifle, shotgun, or howitzer). I want to dump as many rounds of the largest diameter possible into center mass as quickly as I can get them there, repeating until whoever i'm shooting stops whatever it was I started shooting him for to begin with.
Some argue "if you don't think .22 is sufficient, stand there and let me empty one into you". I hate this argument. That assumes I won't be firing back at the same time (which means you want to put me down as quickly as possible).
Also, I don't want to be stabbed with a knife, but don't leave my gun at home in favor of one.
I don't want to be kicked in the junk, but don't leave my gun at home on favor of a pair of pointy boots.
I don't want to be rubbed on by a half-naked gat guy, but I don't leave my gun at home on favor of a speedo.
Carl Levitian
member
No, I don't think you are off base at all. If the .22 is practiced with on a very regular basis because the person finds it fun to shoot, it will do nicely. In the couple of years I was on the Trinidad Colorado P.D. I was the responding officer to two different shootings involving 4 different persons. Three of the 4 had a single .22 round to the central torso area, and were down on the ground out of action. Two of them barely made it even with being transported right to the ER. Both had a bullet to the abdoman and spent 4 hours in emergency surgery repairing the stomach and intestinal tract. One person got hit in the upper right arm, and was trying to not move the arm at all, as it hurt like H---. He was very vocal an how it burned.
The three of them in one incident in may of 1978, that were shot by a young man with a RG .22 revolver were drunk, but were stopped by being shot. They were assaulting the victim, and one was hit in the stomach, went down and was curled up a tight fetal position and not capable of response. The second was hit high in the right chest, almost to the shoulder and was slumped on his butt leaning against a building moaning how it hurt, the third assaulter was the one hit in the upper arm, and was standing there acting macho, until his arm was moved by an EMT looking for an exit wound, and he yelled very load "Don't move it, don't move it man!" All three were part of a group of 6 that had attacked the victim in Geovanni's Bar on Commercial street. The victim ran outside, chased by the 6 attackers weilding pool ques and broken bottles, and shot at his attackers as he ran. Three of the 6 rounds fired found targets and stopped them. The three persuers not hit, ran off in the other direction. The cheap RG .22 worked very well.
The .22 will work if the shooter does his or her job. It's the person behind the gun that makes the difference, not the hardware.
Carl.
The three of them in one incident in may of 1978, that were shot by a young man with a RG .22 revolver were drunk, but were stopped by being shot. They were assaulting the victim, and one was hit in the stomach, went down and was curled up a tight fetal position and not capable of response. The second was hit high in the right chest, almost to the shoulder and was slumped on his butt leaning against a building moaning how it hurt, the third assaulter was the one hit in the upper arm, and was standing there acting macho, until his arm was moved by an EMT looking for an exit wound, and he yelled very load "Don't move it, don't move it man!" All three were part of a group of 6 that had attacked the victim in Geovanni's Bar on Commercial street. The victim ran outside, chased by the 6 attackers weilding pool ques and broken bottles, and shot at his attackers as he ran. Three of the 6 rounds fired found targets and stopped them. The three persuers not hit, ran off in the other direction. The cheap RG .22 worked very well.
The .22 will work if the shooter does his or her job. It's the person behind the gun that makes the difference, not the hardware.
Carl.
Though I don't yet own one I feel strongly that LCR's are the best of the breed in pocket snubbies. I plan to get one to supplement or possibly replace my current SP101 and I'm strongly considering getting an LCR 22 first to allow for significant practice that should transfer to any snubby.
I think you have an excellent idea with recommending the LCR 22 for beginers. It's very minimal for defense but it is something, and being cheap and low recoiling it should encourage practice, hopefully enough to gain skill and interest to move up to a more substantial arm.
I truthfully am not that big on .22's, this one however has me feeling differently and I suspect it'll be the next gun I buy.
I think you have an excellent idea with recommending the LCR 22 for beginers. It's very minimal for defense but it is something, and being cheap and low recoiling it should encourage practice, hopefully enough to gain skill and interest to move up to a more substantial arm.
I truthfully am not that big on .22's, this one however has me feeling differently and I suspect it'll be the next gun I buy.
doc2rn
Member
Too bad it doesnt come in .22 WMR, or I would have bought one in a heart beat.
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
Now that you mention it, Doc, I don't know of any Concealable pistol/revolver chambered in .22mag. I wonder why? 
Inebriated
Member
RAMI,
Charter Arms makes one.
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/charte...agnum-revolver-2-barrel-stainless-finish.html
Charter Arms makes one.
http://www.hyattgunstore.com/charte...agnum-revolver-2-barrel-stainless-finish.html
MedWheeler
Member
Not way off base by any means. There will always be people who will use a .22LR weapon for any of various reasons. It's not my first choice by any means, but it can certainly be capable, in the right hands, or ending most forms of a threat. Also, most of these people (those who won't make firearms a pastime or hobby) would be better served by a revolver in that caliber than by an autoloader.
Personally, I'd like to see an LCP-type in that caliber, too!
Personally, I'd like to see an LCP-type in that caliber, too!
Thanks for the responses. I did mis- title and I could not edit it to read LCR. Most of my questions were answered as I thought they would be. I think I will pick up one of these to use as a training aid. If it morphs into more than that, good. My goal is to produce confident shooters that will return to the range and hone there skills.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The Lone Haranguer
Member
.22 is great for easing a new shooter into the game and for training and practice, but I would urge most people to graduate to a bigger caliber for self defense.
easyg
Member
.Sure a .22 might eventually stop your attacker.
But most likely they will stop long after they have killed you.
But most likely they will stop long after they have killed you.
45_auto
Member
There you go, fixed it for you.
3KillerBs
Member
While a .22 is a fine gun for learning on, a joy to shoot at the range, and definitely the budget-friendly option for getting rounds downrange, and while I would feel no lack of confidence if I were to need to defend myself at a time that I was holding my Mark III in my hand, there is no good reason that a woman should be condescended to by an automatic assumption that she would be unable to handle a semi-auto in a defensive caliber.
I assure you, my food processor is a more complex piece of machinery then my husband's S&W M&P 9. A woman who can run her microwave has the intelligence and mechanical aptitude to run a semi-auto.
There is certainly nothing inherently wrong with revolvers. Its just that the assumption that woman = not capable of handling the "complexity" of a semi-auto gets irksome. Really, we handle machinery every day. Sit down with my sewing machine (a VERY basic model with only 9 stitch types, one automatic attachment, and half-a-dozen special purpose feet), for a while and rethink please.
I assure you, my food processor is a more complex piece of machinery then my husband's S&W M&P 9. A woman who can run her microwave has the intelligence and mechanical aptitude to run a semi-auto.
There is certainly nothing inherently wrong with revolvers. Its just that the assumption that woman = not capable of handling the "complexity" of a semi-auto gets irksome. Really, we handle machinery every day. Sit down with my sewing machine (a VERY basic model with only 9 stitch types, one automatic attachment, and half-a-dozen special purpose feet), for a while and rethink please.
Lawdawg45
Member
340PD, you're not "off base" at all. As a matter of fact, most firearms instructors will not recommend a semi auto for a new shooter and the .22 revolver is a good first choice. Aim point and trigger control can be mastered before moving up into more powerful calibers, and practice ammo is dirt cheap for the .22. My wife is a tack driver with all my handguns including my .44's and .45's, but she asked for a .22 mag revolver for Christmas and that's now her daily carry gun.
LD
LD
MedWheeler
Member
Sure, any handgun might eventually stop your attacker.
But it's possible they will stop after they have killed you.
There, polished up even more.
I dispute the "most likely" phrase. Statistics are showing that the vast majority of defensive uses of handguns are indeed successful and, in many cases, don't even involve the attacker being shot.
Ghost Tracker
Member
As a Southern Gent who appreciates "sporting" odds, I understand statistics & probability. But, IMHO, carrying a handgun for self-defense isn't quite so casual. If I'm going to go to the expense & effort, along with accepting the social, moral & ethical responsibility, of being armed in our society I'm certainly am NOT going to gamble on the effectiveness of a marginal caliber. Folks who are MUCH wiser than I have repeated the same advice for a long time. Carry the most powerful handgun that you can both conceal & shoot well. It's a most serious decision to be armed. The decision to be armed with at least a .38 spl or 9mm is, to me, not that big of a jump. It's like deciding you want to race motorcars for a living, then showing up at the track with a Chevy Geo. It will go around the track. And you are involved in the race. But winning? Uh, well statistics are showing...
JustinJ
Member
The .22 is obviously better than nothing but compared to other options it is a very poor choice. People who talk about "shot placement" fail to understand that nice groups against a stationary piece of paper do NOT translate to real world accuracy. The more damage a bullet does the higher the chance of incapacitating an attacker. Lucky shots with .22s happen but if a person's defensive strategies rely on blind luck then weapon selection is the least of their problems.
My girlfriend settled on a Russian Makarov. I'd prefer she use at least a 9x19 but the Mak has served the Soviet Union well for a long time and the key is that she can shoot it well and feels comfortable with it. This is largely because of the caliber and relative weight of the steel frame. Another far better choice is .380 however tiny guns like the LCP are a poor option for those who are recoil sensitive. In my experience women often have trouble with racking a slide because they do so too tentatively but with a little practice they will find they can operate most any auto. If not then a .38 revolver is a far better choice than a .22. Another better option than .22 would be the Baretta Bobcat in .32 as one does not have to rack the slide to load the gun. It's small but having a metal frame dampens some of the recoil.
My girlfriend settled on a Russian Makarov. I'd prefer she use at least a 9x19 but the Mak has served the Soviet Union well for a long time and the key is that she can shoot it well and feels comfortable with it. This is largely because of the caliber and relative weight of the steel frame. Another far better choice is .380 however tiny guns like the LCP are a poor option for those who are recoil sensitive. In my experience women often have trouble with racking a slide because they do so too tentatively but with a little practice they will find they can operate most any auto. If not then a .38 revolver is a far better choice than a .22. Another better option than .22 would be the Baretta Bobcat in .32 as one does not have to rack the slide to load the gun. It's small but having a metal frame dampens some of the recoil.
Shawn Dodson
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For the kinds of people you mention I suggest a .327 Magnum revolver loaded with .32 S&W Long lead wadcutters. It offers six shots and the bullet will crush a full .32 caliber permanent cavity. It also achieves adequate penetration. Recoil is negligent. Wadcutter ammo is widely available and cheap (less than $20 for 50 rounds).
S&W's 632 revolver w/ 2 1/8" bbl would be a great choice. It has a smooth DAO trigger:
Ruger and Taurus also offer modern DA revolvers in .327 Magnum.
S&W's 632 revolver w/ 2 1/8" bbl would be a great choice. It has a smooth DAO trigger:
Ruger and Taurus also offer modern DA revolvers in .327 Magnum.
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