Ruger LCP Explosion

[Jim K]

I saw the off-center strike also and thought of an out-of-battery firing. But as already noted, that will not usually result in a split barrel. FWIW, I think the barrel had a defect which caused it to split; high pressure might have been involved, but not necessarily. When the barrel split, the case was no longer supported and the pressure blew the case apart. I think the split began just ahead of the lower lug and spread both ways, blowing the barrel into two pieces. The top of the barrel, under pressure, broke the top of the slide. The gas escaping into the action did the rest of the damage.

There appears to be a bit of a bulge in that area, but I think that was the result of the barrel splitting, not its cause, so I would rule out a squib load or other barrel obstruction.

The apparent light strike is due to the fact that normally pressure feeding back through the flash hole pushes back the primer metal around the firing pin, resulting in the usual "cratered" look. But in this case, the pressure did not have time to do that before the barrel split and relieved the pressure, so the firing pin strike looks shallow.

Jim

 

[dickydalton]

I saw the off-center strike also and thought of an out-of-battery firing. But as already noted, that will not usually result in a split barrel. FWIW, I think the barrel had a defect which caused it to split; high pressure might have been involved, but not necessarily. When the barrel split, the case was no longer supported and the pressure blew the case apart. I think the split began just ahead of the lower lug and spread both ways, blowing the barrel into two pieces. The top of the barrel, under pressure, broke the top of the slide. The gas escaping into the action did the rest of the damage.

There appears to be a bit of a bulge in that area, but I think that was the result of the barrel splitting, not its cause, so I would rule out a squib load or other barrel obstruction.

The apparent light strike is due to the fact that normally pressure feeding back through the flash hole pushes back the primer metal around the firing pin, resulting in the usual "cratered" look. But in this case, the pressure did not have time to do that before the barrel split and relieved the pressure, so the firing pin strike looks shallow.

Jim

Well thought through and I believe you have it right.

 

[dsk]

One look at a Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT barrel and you'll notice how thin they are. The .380 is a relatively low-pressure round, but it's still powerful enough to split a skinny barrel like that if there's a metallurgical flaw in it. The OP said it was a new pistol with only 75 rounds through it, so I agree with Jim that it's a definite possibility. Of course possibility #2 remains an overcharged round, but I don't think there's enough room in a .380ACP case to put a double charge of powder inside. A badly undercharged round can blow up however if the primer hole is exposed and allows the flash to shoot across the powder and set it all off at once.

 

[Duvel]

Makes me shudder at the thought of a hot 10mm letting loose.

OP: Glad you're OK.

Just seems that too much is sacrificed in the name of cost savings and weight reduction. I only have one 380, and it's barrel seems a bit more substantial.

 

[rcmodel]

A badly undercharged round can blow up however if the primer hole is exposed and allows the flash to shoot across the powder and set it all off at once.

No it won't.

The small charge of fast burning power used in small cartridges like the .380 burn in the thought of a blink of an eye in the first place.

In the second place, there is only so much energy contained in the small powder charge.

In the third place, a super-sonic pressure wave cannot form in a 4.0 grain or less powder charge.

And without that, you can't have a detonation.

The pressure in the primer pocket is about three times that of the peak pressure of the .380.

So 'flashing over the charge' causing a detonation just can't happen in that small amount of fast burning pistol powder.

rc

 

[JohnKSa]

I'd say Remington owes you a new handgun and some new ammo as well.

Look at the differences in the primers of the blown round and the one next to it that fired normally.

See the very obviously rounded edges on the primer of the normal round vs. the much more flattened appearance of the primer on the blown round? Takes a lot of pressure (relatively speaking) to do that in a straight-walled pistol case.

I was concerned about the light strike until I noticed how flat the primer was. The strike wasn't light, the overpressure was high enough to blow the original primer dent back out until it looked flat.

I was concerned about the off-center strike but on closer examination, I believe that some of the issue is that the actual primer indentation was nearly completely flattened back out and what is showing up is the result of the case being forced back hard against the firing pin as the round was slammed back during the "ejection" process. At that point the round was off-center because the chamber was already failing.

Note that the other primers have a little bit of a firing-pin drag mark towards the center of the primer while the blown round appears to have a firing-pin drag mark towards the edge of the primer. All of the evidence says that round was very, very different from the other rounds.

I don't like the defective gun theory because there would be no reason for the recoil to be higher than with a normal discharge if the gun simply gave up due to a defect. Since the energy of the discharge would have been the same (maybe less given that parts failed and vented pressure) the recoil for that round should have been no different from the others if it was simply a weakness in the gun that finally failed.

 

[Duvel]

What powder is fast enough, that enough would fit, to do that?

#2? Nitro?

 

[230RN]

I like JohnKSa's analysis. Looks like a double charge to me. You know, you shut down the loading presses on Friday, and start them up again Monday AM at the wrong part of the loading cycle, and...

Hatcher has noted this as having been an occasional problem until "we fixed the loading machines so this couldn't happen again."

The cases aren't marked +P, and as far as I know at the present moment, only Buffalo Bore loads +P .380 ammo, so I don't think that was part of the problem.

I don't think it was a case of a 115-124 grain 9mm bullet mixed in with the .380 bullets in the loading machine. You probably would have noticed the diferent shape of the bullet nose. But that's another wierd possibility, I suppose.

You're darned lucky. You want to buy some Lotto tickets for me?

Terry, 230RN

 

[DoubleMag]

All is well with the OP, that's #1.
And between these 2 companies involved, #2 is there will be a satisfactory resolution to the problem.


Shameless bump for a timely safety notice.......


ALWAYS WEAR SHOOTING/SAFETY GLASSES FOLKS ! ! ! ! !

My grandpappy said ''Lessons learned twice are the hardest''

 

[joystick]

Will try to answer all the questions and provide more info.

I am way luckier than anyone I know, I was in shock when I saw what was left in my hand. I don't want to go through that type of experience again.

Ruger sent me a new pistol including the laser sight. They analyzed the parts and said the most likely cause was an overpressure. Remington sent me a new box of ammo. They checked the rounds remaining and came to no conclusion about the cause.

There was no rust on the gun, ever, it was brand new. Also, I spent 4 years, 8 months, 4 days and 32 min. in the Marines, I learned how to clean and lube a gun. I clean my guns every week, and always before shooting.

I never use reloads in my .380s.

I was using a paper target, 9 rounds were in a normal group, no guessing about how many rounds were fired, or how many left the barrel, no wild shots, no different recoil, nor different sounds. I check for loose bullets, dents, etc. when loading. I never use dropped ammo and it is always stored in a metal box for protection. I don't carry with one in the barrel since this gun has no safety, I try to never cycle rounds, none of those rounds were ever cycled.

The magazine housing was still in the gun. I did get a small cut on my hand from the bottom parts departing.

The brass and the primer are both really flattened. The lettering on the brass looks like it was hit with a hammer. The picture looks better than the actual brass.

I appreciate the help in trying to figure out what happened. JohnKSa has a great analysis. I'm still undecided about the two most likely causes, "undercharged", from dsk, or "overcharged", from rcmodel. I'm leaning toward overcharged right now.

From the impact on my hand I would guess way overcharged. My hand felt like it was hit by a baseball bat and my thumb felt like it had been hit with a hammer. The noise was about double that of a .45 which the guy on the range next to me was shooting. He stopped shooting to see what I fired that was so loud. I'm not sure that an undercharged round would have the energy to do that much damage. I also don't know how much of the powder that Remington uses for the .380 will fit in that cartridge. From a safety and liability standpoint, I would hope that they would select a power density that would not allow a double charge.

I'm shooting the new gun regularly now, it did take a while to get over being nervous.

 

[OilyPablo]

When my HiPoint 40SW Carbine blew it was indeed very violent but luckily didn't destroy the gun. But same thing on my trigger hand the shock and sting was very sharp. Glad your outcome was good as was mine. Turned out there was a burr in the chamber. Impossible to see even field stripped.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Wow. That's the worst picture of a catastrophic failure I've ever seen. sure glad no one got seriously hurt.

 

[rsrocket1]

What powder is fast enough, that enough would fit, to do that?
#2? Nitro?

A 3.5g charge of Titegroup will be a full power load and occupy about 40% the empty space in a .380. A double charge will occupy 80% of an empty case so it won't spill over. That much powder will generate about 98,000 psi (Quickload estimate). It might be off the chart and not really accurate but it would certainly be well above the proof pressure of a .380.

OP, I'm glad you got the situation resolved so quickly. I'm really impressed that Ruger did what they did even though it appears to be Remington's fault. Some gun manufacturers would have simply pointed the finger at the ammo company who would do the same back.

 

[HankB]

Glad you avoided serious injury - ANOTHER reason to ALWAYS wear shooting glasses!

A badly undercharged round can blow up however if the primer hole is exposed and allows the flash to shoot across the powder and set it all off at once.

Several decades ago, there was scuttlebutt that the traditional .38 Special target load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain wadcutter was prone to this. Both the NRA technical staff and one of the powder manufacturers tried - hard! - to substantiate this, and couldn't. Careful analysis of the metallurgy and fractures of guns that had been supposedly destroyed by "detonations" revealed no evidence of the type of shock a "detonation" would cause; rather, the guns blown up showed evidence of both a double or triple charge and a deeply seated bullet in combination.

Now, there is documented evidence of pressure excursions with light charges in bottleneck rifle cases, but that's something else entirely.

As for the problem detailed in the original post - aside from the possibility of a double charge, perhaps the bullet itself wasn't crimped securely and was driven down deep into the case during the feed cycle, compressing the powder and raising pressures?

 

[joystick]

For JohnKsa:

Cropped the original picture to give a better view of the ends of the brass. One with the bad shell and one with the normal brass.

None of the shells seem to have a dead center primer hit, or they may be distorted by the ejection process.

 

[230RN]

Adding up the tolerances for chamber dimensions, case dimensions, firing pin hole dimensions, firing pin dimensions, I would expect many guns to fire off-center slightly. I don't think that's related to your KaBoom (KB) event and I don't see it as a general problem.

I mean, it's not like they were mounted in a lathe, you know. Ten thou off center in a .177 circle looks like a LOT to the eyeball.

I'd be interested in knowing how the primers out of your new gun looked, by comparison. No need to take and post pix, just a verbal description will do.

Terry

Also: Does the LCP use the firing pin as an ejector? Don't want to bother looking it up.

 

[Shaq]

Holy Gun Pieces Batman!

And folks claim the .380 is underpowered for self- defense!!!

The local Cabelas here is running Ruger LCP on sale for $199.00. The ad says it is their lowest price ever.

This makes a case for using firearms made of all metal. I think I will stick with my commie 9x18 semi-autos.

C'mon, dude. You should know better. If the ammo was double charged or had the wrong powder in it, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the defensive power of the 380 cartridge.

What if you filled up a 25 acp case with plastic explosive & the gun came apart. Would you say, "Wow...the 25 auto is no wimpy cartridge??

 

[BSA1]

I also don't know how much of the powder that Remington uses for the .380 will fit in that cartridge. From a safety and liability standpoint, I would hope that they would select a power density that would not allow a double charge.

It's a shame you didn't think of saving a few rounds and pulling the bullets to see how full Remington filled the case with powder.

 

[Shaq]

It's a shame you didn't think of saving a few rounds and pulling the bullets to see how full Remington filled the case with powder.

How full the case is wouldn't provide any useful info. The slower burning a powder is, the more it takes to provide sufficient pressure to make the gun function. And, the larger flake powders take up more room in the case. And factory ammo companies don't reveal what powders they use.

 

[I6turbo]

Looks like it had C4 for propellant!

 

[Equa]

Wow,
That explosion sure was impressive! I also think the primers provide clear evidence of an over pressure condition in the ammunition. The flattened radium on that primer is quite different than the normal pressure casing next to it.
Glad you're OK!!

 

[justice06rr]

I was using one clip...

There's your problem .


Glad your ok though.

 

[Malamute]

A 3.5g charge of Titegroup will be a full power load and occupy about 40% the empty space in a .380. A double charge will occupy 80% of an empty case so it won't spill over. That much powder will generate about 98,000 psi (Quickload estimate). It might be off the chart and not really accurate but it would certainly be well above the proof pressure of a .380.

OP, I'm glad you got the situation resolved so quickly. I'm really impressed that Ruger did what they did even though it appears to be Remington's fault. Some gun manufacturers would have simply pointed the finger at the ammo company who would do the same back.

What does quickload say for pressure with a normally charged cartridge but with the bullet set back, say, 1/4" or whatever you can figure may raise pressure noticeably?

 

[JohnKSa]

Ruger sent me a new pistol including the laser sight.

That was generous of them given that overpressure was almost certainly the cause and therefore the incident wasn't their fault. I'm always impressed that some gun companies understand how to build customer loyalty and surprised that others obviously don't.

Adding up the tolerances for chamber dimensions, case dimensions, firing pin hole dimensions, firing pin dimensions, I would expect many guns to fire off-center slightly. I don't think that's related to your KaBoom (KB) event and I don't see it as a general problem.

I agree. Off center primer strikes aren't a big deal unless some are obviously off center and others are just as obviously centered. Then you have to wonder what's going on.

From the impact on my hand I would guess way overcharged. My hand felt like it was hit by a baseball bat and my thumb felt like it had been hit with a hammer. The noise was about double that of a .45 which the guy on the range next to me was shooting. He stopped shooting to see what I fired that was so loud.

That makes sense. The fact that all the other primers show no signs of flattening also suggest that it wasn't a problem with the gun but was a problem with the round that blew the gun.

Also: Does the LCP use the firing pin as an ejector?

It has a separate ejector.

 

[Peakbagger46]

If you develop a slight flinch after that "incident", don't let anyone give you a hard time.