Ruger Single Six: Match grade barrel? Accuracy?

[ThomasT]

Well. I'll let you two duke it out about what custom gunsmiths will and won't do. My experience is they won't do anything. I contacted the big one, HB about putting adjustable sights on a model 31. Nope, he couldn't do that because he didn't have another adjustable sighted j frame to look at. I offered to send a model 34 along to look at. Nope still not interested.

A year later I inherited my dads model 28. I called the big one to see if he could bore the cylinder and install a 44 caliber barrel and convert this gun to a 44 special. Nope, couldn't do that either. I gave up on custom gunsmiths.

I wonder if the OP has even shot his new single six? When I was first getting into handguns and reading every gun mag I could get my hands on they kept saying to try as many different types of ammo as you could find.

Well I did just that. I had about 20 different boxes of 22lr rounds and spent several hours testing each box. Wow it sure showed me that 22s are picky . Some groups at 25 yards were in the 4" range and others were right around the 1" size. I had one group with 18 shots that were just under an inch. That was an eye openner for me.

As far as a tighter match barrel maybe it will make a difference. A similar post was on the Firingline a couple of weeks ago. I measured several boxes of 22lr rounds and all the bullets miked in at .224-.225. So whats the deal with a .219 barrel? Besides with the long run a bullet has before it hits the rifling it has to be going several hundred FPS and then has to instantly start spinning? I would think it would be easier to make an accurate semi auto where the bullet starts right into the rifling than a revolver with the long bullet jump.

It has been done many times but a revolver, especialy a single action with the slow, heavy hammer fall has a lot stacked against it.

 

[CraigC]

I don't know about adding adjustable sights to a J-frame but converting N-frame .38's and .357's to .38-40, .44-40, .44Spl and .45Colt is a routine conversion.

It has been done many times but a revolver, especialy a single action with the slow, heavy hammer fall has a lot stacked against it.

Not really. I've heard this theory repeated several times but never seen any actual testing done to prove it and experience would indicate it's a non-issue.

 

[ThomasT]

Hey Craig. I like to sit and piddle with my guns. (like everyone else here) And the difference in lock times between a double and a single action can be seen and the hammer blow felt. A good point with the single action is that if you have hard primers you can count on those guns to set them off. I like single actions and have no problems owning several of them. My super BH has a heavy hammer fall but the weight of the gun tames the jarring from the hammer.

As for it being a non issue I think it just comes down to shooting a gun a bunch until you get used to the way it feels and you don't notice it any more. Thats why I stated in my other post that I got some amazing (to me) groups with an older single six. By the time I was done shooting that day the gun and I were as one unit. I still don't know what possed me to selll that gun. It was a gift. I am wiser now.

 

[JohnBT]

Or you could spend $15 on a box of Lapua Midas L target ammo and see how the Ruger likes it. The bullet is a little oversized.

"The L series is 5.69mm diameter (.224)."

 

[Prosser]

The budget for this is 400 dollars and under. I figure that if I want a super accurate .22lr, I can buy one of those bolt action .22lr canons, do a trigger job, and be in it for that.

I'm hoping my favorite gunsmith has an old, good, 22lr barrel laying around, or just bite the bullet, and get a Lilja, Kreiger, or Douglas barrel.

CraigC:
Lee Martin is a genius in a machine shop. He's hardly a home gunsmith. IIRC, he got it from his dad, who was likewise.

I haven't shot the gun. Put new grips on it, but figured I'd devalue this thing quick shooting it. I am going to have Jack Huntington look at it, and see if there is a way to increase the accuracy. Accuracy is a funny thing. Sometimes loose is GOOD.

Also, with some calibers, they tend to 'align' themselves. In other words,
the big bullets tend to correct minor alignment inaccuracies, or, the guns are just easier to make sure everything is closer, because everything is bigger.

If there is one thing I've learned is a guy that's been a gunsmith his whole life can see the big picture, and come up with a combination that leads to an accurate gun that a less experienced gunsmith might think wouldn't work.

Also, the experience allows the gunsmith to determine what changes provide the best value. In other words, yes align boring is nice, but, it's expensive, prohibitively in this case, and might not give you the accuracy expected. It would be kind of funny to have two, brand new cylinders, and both of them not work for what I want to do with the gun.

I can see align boring a new cylinder, 400-600 dollars, and then shooting through a barrel that's .226-7" and the bullets rattle down the barrel...

If there is one thing I've learned, each gun is an individual, and, must be evaluated by an experienced smith before any work is decided on.

I want the option of selling it new for what I have in it.

Once the barrel is checked, and evaluated, I'll go from there.

Seems my trip this week was canceled. So, the project is still on hold this week.

 

[ThomasT]

I haven't shot the gun. Put new grips on it, but figured I'd devalue this thing quick shooting it.

Its a Ruger Single Six. They have no great value unless they are several decades old. I have my GFs gun made in 1961 and I doubt its worth more than $350 at the most. Go shoot your gun and shoot several hundred rounds to break in the barrel. Nothing will devalue a gun like working on it. And you may find out it needs nothing at all done to it.

I can see align boring a new cylinder, 400-600 dollars, and then shooting through a barrel that's .226-7" and the bullets rattle down the barrel...

Where did you get that diminsion from? From everything I have read the barrel should be .224. Thats why in my other post I stated I have miked several 22lr rounds and they all miked .224-.225. They should fit your barrel just fine. If not try the Paco Kelly accurizer. But if you get the bullets too big they are going to be tough to chamber.

Since Ruger is making their own barrels you may find your new gun has an excellent barrel on it now. But you will never know until you try it. And with all the CNC machines in use now I'd be willing to bet your cylinder lines up just fine with the barrel. A simple range rod test will tell the tale on that.

 

[CraigC]

Lee Martin is a genius in a machine shop. He's hardly a home gunsmith. IIRC, he got it from his dad, who was likewise.

Which illustrates my point beautifully. Very few who are not professionals possess the knowledge, ability and proper tools to build a accurate sixgun. Lee is a rare example.

If there is one thing I've learned is a guy that's been a gunsmith his whole life can see the big picture, and come up with a combination that leads to an accurate gun that a less experienced gunsmith might think wouldn't work.

Exactly! Which is why I think a gunsmith like Jack should be able to examine and measure the sixgun to see what would make the most difference and what would be a waste. Taylor throating is another option I forgot to mention. I would definitely shoot it extensively first to see where you stand, because it just might surprise you. You at least need a baseline for comparison.

 

[Prosser]

Thanks Ratshooter. I didn't know Ruger was making it's own barrels now.
Any idea where the blanks start, who they get them from, or do they start from scratch? What has been the observation on the quality of the new barrels?

I have noticed reviews of the 10 shot new ruger as being a tack driver.

CraigC and Ratshooter: What else has Ruger changed in their production stuff, moving from the old Single Six to the new ones?

This new one is light years from the old Single Six I almost bought for 350 dollars, 15 years ago.

Ratshooter: This gun is worth 500-550 new, and, when you look at the quality, and the package, it's certainly worth that. When I first got it, I was really impressed with the overall quality of the gun. Something I can't say about, value wise, with the blued guns.

With nothing more then a Poor Man's trigger job, it has a wonderful trigger.

 

[ThomasT]

Hi Prosser. I didn't know a single six cost that much now. I paid around $350 for the new one I have now but that was about 4 years ago. Do you have a hunter or target model, something besides the basic SS?

And if your take on the gun is that it is a high quality gun you can bet the barrel is in the same league as the rest of the gun. I know ruger started making their own barrels a few years ago but the SS has always been noted as being accurate. I have read a few complaints about poorly rifled barrels but even then ruger would replace them if they were bad.

Ruger has made gazillions of these guns and shooting it will not hurt the value. Go shoot it. Then shoot it some more. Like Will Terry said his gets better over time. Its just getting smoother. When you have 5000 rounds through it then decide if you need a new barrel. I bet you don't.

 

[CraigC]

I don't know if Ruger has changed the way they build Single Sixes. I do know t hat the New Vaqueros and all the new flat-tops are built on new CNC machinery and they cut their chambers one at a time with the same reamer. They are much improved over anything previous. Have no idea if that has carried over to the Single Six or not. Ruger has been producing their own barrels through hammer forging for quite some time.

I've handled a new Single Ten and was fairly impressed. Not bad at all at $439 either. Unfortunately, the old malady of the chamber swinging too far at the "click" is still there for unloading but at least it can now be loaded more easily. I usually prefer Old Models but may yet bring one home. It will need new sights, can't abide flashy fiber optics on my sixguns.

 

[DPris]

I had a Douglas barrel installed on a Single-Six, with Taylor throating.
The result didn't shoot markedly better than a stock Single-Six I have.
Denis

 

[Coal Dragger]

Sorry to hear your FA was a pain Prosser. Did you ever consider having FA open up the chambers just a smidge, or did they decline to do so?

 

[Prosser]

As I said earlier, it's a beautiful gun, but, for what I wanted it for, getting it there was going to cost me more money then I wanted to put into a 22lr.
I've done this kind of investment, but, the calibers start at .475 for the ones I kept.

I don't see much point in having what is probably a matchgrade quality cylinder opened up. I should have just bought matchgrade ammo. One of the chambers was tighter then the others.

I bought a gun that had a barrel I wanted shortened, would need different grips, and different sites. Plus, opening up the chamber. I would have had a 2 grand 22lr, that would be shot right with a 300 dollar bolt 22lr, nearly the same size.

Not much choice in 22lrs, and, of the ones I've had, the one I regret letting go the most was a Colt Trooper, Mark III, 22lr.

Why keep a a guy who hunts iron chickens from using the perfect weapon for his desires?
Plus, I made near 50% on the guns sale. If I find another, I'll buy it.

 

[DPris]

In playing with a Single-Six, resale value shouldn't be any part of the equation.
First, they're not worth much to begin with; second, you won't get what you put into it out of it if you do sell it later on.

I'm $1200 into my little custom SS. I don't regret a dime spent on it. Custom work's done to make a given gun into something its owner feels meets his or her own particular desires & needs better than a box-stock gun does.
I've had several handguns customized, none with any concern over resale value involved.

As far as the slow SA hammer goes, a while back I worked with a new Browning Buckmark, a new Ruger bull-barrel 22/45, a new Ruger 4 5/8-inch SS, a minty Smith 34, and a new Smith 5-inch Model 63.
With 8 different loads tested, the SA SS more than kept up in accuracy off the bench, beating out the other guns on occasion. Including the autos, with their faster striker locktime. It actually produced the best 5-shot 25-yard group of the five guns, 11/16 inches with Remington Golden HPs.

I bought the Browning & the SS, averaged together with some loads doing better in one than the other, both are equally accurate overall.

I see nothing wrong with going to town on a .22 handgun, just be realistic about the results you expect.
And remove resale value or "collectability" from the equation.
Denis

 

[Prosser]

Last time I was at the range someone had put a ping pong ball out at 25 yards.
I hit it first shot with the .475. Best shot I've made in awhile. If I can get under an inch at 25 yards, that's better then I can shoot. At least I know it's not the gun.

I just don't see any reason a 22lr revolver can't shoot like my CZ 452.

I use the lil dots off a target Shoot N C that everyone throws away at the range for the CZ. If I'm off the 1/4" dot, with any part of the bullet, I'm not shooting well.

Denis:
What did you have done to your SS? A new gun is a new gun. a Shot gun is used. That's usually 20-25% down in value, at least in this area.

Haven't priced SS on Gunbroker recently.

 

[DPris]

Douglas four-inch barrel, Taylor throating, dovetailed front sight, action job, steel gripframe, steel ejector housing, gripframe re-contoured, custom grips to mate with gripframe, re-blued.

I'm not sure what your purpose is, to get a gun you want or to get a gun as an investment.
If investment, that's never been involved in any of mine.
I get a gun the way I want it, either minor or major work, and that's the goal. Don't plan to re-sell, and if I do I know I won't recoup my money on it.

My customization is functional, not cosmetic. If I had 100% engraving & massive gold inlays done, I suppose I'd have a better chance, but I don't own many safe queens & none of my customs fall into that category.
Denis

 

[DPris]

Rat,
By the way, the custom world doesn't begin & end with Bowen.
He's done work for me on a Vaquero & two custom Redhawks, one of which involved changing a barrel & cylinder.

Nowdays I think he's a little less interested in getting too exotic, prefers to do certain work that's more or less standardized within his shop.

Clements did my SS, and he's much more willing to push the envelope across the board.
There are others, I wouldn't give up on a custom project just because Hamilton wouldn't do the work you wanted.
Denis

 

[Prosser]

Bowen, at least from my letters, etc. has always limited his work to things
he feels comfortable doing, and does well. He's very good, and was always the most expensive.

Heard great things about Clements. Still a small shop, as is JRH Advanced Gunsmithing, though it's a very big shop, with a lot of machinery in it.

The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking I maybe done with it.
It's got custom grips, a nice trigger pull, and I can adjust the bullet diameter by
using Paco's Tool(somehow I don't like how that came out, but you get the idea ).

I think I'll have Jack look at it, spec it, and see what he says. Looks like the cylinder is a bit loose, but, I don't have a normal gun to compare it to.

 

[ThomasT]

Hello DPris. For the adjustable sight on the model 31 I didn't just call H Bowen. I just called him first. Then I called every GS that advertised in Guns & Ammo at the time. Nobody wanted the job, even a couple of shops near me that did revolver work. Or claimed to do gunsmithing.

I solved that problem by picking up a 631 in 32 mag. As for the 357 to 44 special conversion I just gave up. It was my dads model 28 and is still in unfired condition. I wish I had the box a paperwork but my dad always tossed the box.

Now it doesn't matter. I spend a lot of time thinking about doing a serious thinning out of the guns I own. I don't shoot as much now as I used to. Honestly, I don't have a lot of interest in anything anymore. Guess I'm gettin' old.

 

[DPris]

Rat,
Couldn't tell by your post how many people you'd tried.
I'm gettin' toward the older side myself, but if you decide to let that 28 go......
Denis

 

[ThomasT]

DPris I don't remember the exact amount I contacted but I believe it was 10-12 gunsmiths that advertised in the back pages of Guns&Ammo. That was back in the early 90s when G&A was worth reading and Jan Libourel was running the show. Terry Murbach wrote an article on that he called the 32/32. He had J Frame sights added to a fixed sight model 31. I bet I read that article 25 times. I still have it and on occasion reread it. I am also lucky enough to swap emails with Mr. Murbach. He's a card too.

I can't sell the model 28. I need to take it shooting. I am not saving it. I have no safe queens. Guns were made to shoot and I need to get busy and fire that dude.

You know whats funny? I have one of those CDs from Guns Magazine with issues from 50 years ago. And there is an article on adding J Frame sights with nothing more than a good set of files and the proper tap. You have to rig up a taller front sight.

I spent my young life working in my dads machine shop and if I had access to a milling machine I could do the work myself and even do the front sight correctly by milling a .100 groove in the rib and pinning in a sight blade. I doubt there is an hours worth of work. The jigging would be the hardest part and that shouldn't be much of a problem either. Thats what baffled me as to why no one would do the job. Its a moot point now.

 

[DPris]

Jan "ran" Handguns, not G&A.
Can't blame you for hanging onto that 28, I was just saying if you ever....

C&S installed their fixed sights on a J-Frame & a Walther PPK/S for me, did you ever try them for adjustables on your project back then?
Denis

 

[CraigC]

I don't think you'd have any trouble finding a `smith to do either job today. David Clements has an especially nice pre-war S&W-style rear sight that he installs on fixed sight guns.

 

[snooperman]

I bought a Ruger Single Six hunter for my grandson and it....

has a 7.5" heavy barrel that shoots great. We did not put a scope on it but that option is there. It is as accurate as my S&W model 17 at 25 yards and my 12 year old grandson has taken several squirrels with it. It weighs 44 ounces and hangs just right. It may be an option for you.

 

[ThomasT]

Denis and Craig I don't remember who all I called. That was at least 15 years ago. I remember Bowen and a place called Ten Ring (I think) but thats about it.

Like I said earlier its a moot point since I finally found a 631. That was my number one gun to find. A fellow on the S&W forum had it for $650 including shipping and another $20 when it got here. Whats funny is about 5 hours before I bought the 631 I won a model 36-6 3" barreled 38 special off GB. Supposedly S&W only made 615 of these guns. The real kicker is after finding the long sought after 631 and shooting both guns side by side I am not sure I don't like the 36-6 better.

And DPris you are correct. It was "Handguns" but it still has the Guns & Ammo logo on the cover. I just climbed up in the attic and checked. I sure did like Jans articles. He had a big influence on this new shooter back then.