AStone
Member
One video leads to another. Here's an informative one that's helping me understand some basics.
Ruger SR9c
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armedwalleye
Member
As a self defense carry weapon, the 10s make more sense to me, and I prefer to practice with what I carry. Range use with a17 will feel different than the 10s. While the 17 gives a bigger grip, it also changes the way the gun handles. If I'm going to a full size grip, I may as well go to the the std sr9 and gain the barrel length, but at that point, I've moved away from the balance, feel compactness and point ability of the compact. To each their own, though. YMMV...
AStone
Member
^ I understand your point, Walleye. Good reasoning.
LiveLife
Member
I think that depends on whether you are using isosceles or weaver stance. For isosceles stance, the way many explained the benefits of thumbs forward grip to me was full contact on the grip by the supporting hand/palm with shooting hand/palm "behind" the supporting hand/palm so as to make a tighter grip. And to get a firmer grip, I was instructed to pull/squeeze with the supporting fingers wrapped over the shooting fingers around the grip but to keep the shooting index finger "relaxed" while pushing on the shooting hand/wrist to form a very solid grip on the pistol but an independent trigger finger to not pull/push/jerk the trigger.
I am a big fan of Hickok and he uses modified weaver stance (locked shooting arm) and I have tried Hickok's grip which provides a nice platform for slow fire at 15-25+ yards (left hand/arm is pulled back tight to lock the shooting arm/hand to stabilize the pistol sights, especially for those longer range shots) but hard to do thumbs forward with his modified weaver stance as you are pulling back hard on the left hand. I find the modified isosceles grip with slightly bent elbows more suitable for me to engage multiple targets fast up close (7-15 yards). Hickok describes benefits of isosceles stance at 3:00 minute mark on this video and states, "This gives a lot of control of the handgun" - https://youtu.be/A1Cf0WEeXZk?t=180. He covers weaver stance at 5:15 minute mark - https://youtu.be/A1Cf0WEeXZk?t=315
But holes on target speak volumes. Try both ways and see which works better for you. I usually put 4-6 copy paper targets on the cardboard backer and do double tap drills at 7-15 yards. For me, two handed grip with slightly bent elbows work better than modified weaver. It may be different for you.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
My resistance to the Weaver stance is, I think, pragmatic. The Weaver stance is a well-regarded method of using a handgun; to some extent, mimics proper rifle technique, too.
The thing I've noticed -- probably from watching it being used at IDPA matches -- is that the folks who use Weaver have a bit of difficulty when they can't easily get into the frequently practiced and very stable, fixed position the Weaver Stance requires: shooting from behind barriers (especially the weak side of a barrier) while stooped or squatting, from prone, while kneeling, while moving, etc.
It may well be, however, that I haven't seen it used by people who know the workarounds -- or they don't try to use it when it isn't optimal...
Of course, there's reason one can't learn to use both, and use whichever one seems best for the situation you find yourself in.
The thing I've noticed -- probably from watching it being used at IDPA matches -- is that the folks who use Weaver have a bit of difficulty when they can't easily get into the frequently practiced and very stable, fixed position the Weaver Stance requires: shooting from behind barriers (especially the weak side of a barrier) while stooped or squatting, from prone, while kneeling, while moving, etc.
It may well be, however, that I haven't seen it used by people who know the workarounds -- or they don't try to use it when it isn't optimal...
Of course, there's reason one can't learn to use both, and use whichever one seems best for the situation you find yourself in.
AStone
Member
This is a very helpful discussion. Thanks. I'll have some questions later ...
LiveLife
Member
Here Jerry Miculek demonstrates his semi-auto grip
[YOUTUBE]QRvO_1B5dfc[/YOUTUBE]
More from Kay Miculek where she addresses the importance of support hand on pistol grip
[YOUTUBE]gnSmDxWt8N4[/YOUTUBE]
Todd Jarrett explains consistency of grip
[YOUTUBE]ysa50-plo48[/YOUTUBE]
Travis Tomasie demonstrates the correct grip to control recoil for faster follow up shots
[YOUTUBE]jw9oyhCpE8k[/YOUTUBE]
Biomechanics of the grip
[YOUTUBE]MY6gwhj5qpY[/YOUTUBE]
Weaver vs Isosceles explained with body alignment
[YOUTUBE]GewbIC2P8Hw[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]QRvO_1B5dfc[/YOUTUBE]
More from Kay Miculek where she addresses the importance of support hand on pistol grip
[YOUTUBE]gnSmDxWt8N4[/YOUTUBE]
Todd Jarrett explains consistency of grip
[YOUTUBE]ysa50-plo48[/YOUTUBE]
Travis Tomasie demonstrates the correct grip to control recoil for faster follow up shots
[YOUTUBE]jw9oyhCpE8k[/YOUTUBE]
Biomechanics of the grip
[YOUTUBE]MY6gwhj5qpY[/YOUTUBE]
Weaver vs Isosceles explained with body alignment
[YOUTUBE]GewbIC2P8Hw[/YOUTUBE]
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Walt Sherrill
Member
That's a GREAT collection of videos. Thanks!
LiveLife
Member
In this video, Jerry Miculek explains in detail isosceles vs weaver to minimize body action to simplify/improve shooting efficiency so targets can be engaged faster with greater accuracy.
He also explains further the two handed grip.
[YOUTUBE]ChSazF41q-s[/YOUTUBE]
He also explains further the two handed grip.
[YOUTUBE]ChSazF41q-s[/YOUTUBE]
AStone
Member
I agree with Walt, BDS: great set of vids. Thanks for taking the time to post them. I'll watch them all. 
Actually, I've seen some. I've been a Miculek fan for years, and have watched a couple of those recently in this matter.
Actually, I've seen some. I've been a Miculek fan for years, and have watched a couple of those recently in this matter.
AStone
Member
Just got a call from the gun shop: my SR9c arrived early (it's Monday; wasn't expecting it until Wednesday).
Unfortunately, because of scheduling, I can't get out there until Thursday or Friday. :banghead:
Oh, well. At least it's close.
Unfortunately, because of scheduling, I can't get out there until Thursday or Friday. :banghead:
Oh, well. At least it's close.
AStone
Member
After work, I watched all the vids that BDS posted. I'll need to watch all again.
I most understand Mr. Miculek. I confess that Todd Jarrett lost me.
I most understand Mr. Miculek. I confess that Todd Jarrett lost me.
Walt Sherrill
Member
I think I understand what Jarrett MEANS, but he has a knack for interchanging terms applied to the finger to the trigger -- confusing things. Triggers don't have "pads" for example, but that seems to be what he's saying. He awkwardly seems to interchange terms like that several times in that short video.
His point about the finger on the trigger was that if you get too much finger on the trigger, the whole finger (including the joint nearest the knuckle) tends to move as you press the trigger and that can push the gun away from proper sight alignment.
His point about the finger on the trigger was that if you get too much finger on the trigger, the whole finger (including the joint nearest the knuckle) tends to move as you press the trigger and that can push the gun away from proper sight alignment.
I like Ruger GP100 revolvers, and I'm glad they brought back the Red Label O/U shotguns. I want a Gunsite Sniper Rifle someday, I have an SR1911 Commander that is a great pistol to shoot.
As far as the Ruger SR striker-fired guns there are too many competitor guns I like a lot better, so let's leave it at that.
As far as the Ruger SR striker-fired guns there are too many competitor guns I like a lot better, so let's leave it at that.
AStone
Member
JDR, no worries. The SR9's aren't for everyone. Heck, the verdict is still out about whether it's really mine or not, even though the evidence in favor is running pretty high right now. Ask me in a year or two -- usually takes me at least that long to know. I'm going to search that SR1911 Commander later. Curious. And thanks for expressing your opinion so tactfully.
Walt, I'm glad it's not just me. It was late last night after a long day at work, I'd had an IPA (fresh hops, local brewery), and wasn't exactly on top of my game, but Jarrett's message seemed garbled -- especially compared to Miculek and others. I could tell he had knowledge based in experience, but just wasn't articulating it clearly.
I've seen students that do that as young people -- conflating words in confusing ways, and being a little too confident of it. And I've learned that some (at least) carry that habit into adulthood. (Just look at the slew of politicians that spew gobbledegook. )
I think you're right about his conflation of the anatomy of hands and triggers, too. Point taken about too much finger on the trigger.
I'll watch it again at a later time. I'm sure there's more gems in there.
Walt, I'm glad it's not just me. It was late last night after a long day at work, I'd had an IPA (fresh hops, local brewery), and wasn't exactly on top of my game, but Jarrett's message seemed garbled -- especially compared to Miculek and others. I could tell he had knowledge based in experience, but just wasn't articulating it clearly.
I've seen students that do that as young people -- conflating words in confusing ways, and being a little too confident of it. And I've learned that some (at least) carry that habit into adulthood. (Just look at the slew of politicians that spew gobbledegook.
)I think you're right about his conflation of the anatomy of hands and triggers, too. Point taken about too much finger on the trigger.
I'll watch it again at a later time. I'm sure there's more gems in there.
AStone, I think your targets tell the tale pretty well.
Enjoy your SR9c!
Enjoy your SR9c!
AStone
Member
Thanks, Spats. I think I'm going to.
________
Watching those vids again.
This is what occurs to me. Some of the instructors are talking WAY TOO FAST.
Like radio announcers trying to sell a product.
Instruction needs to be slow, determined, room between ideas to allow processing. I know that's driven by the idea that people have limited attention spans, so you have to put LOTS of information into a short time.
But it doesn't work ... at least for me, especially when doing trainings.
Good teachers give a little info, then stop, preferably ask for questions,
then go to the next point, then ask for questions, etc.
I know this because I'm a teacher with 40 years experience.
Waytoofastresultsinablurofwords.
Way ... too ... fast ... results ... in ... a ... blur ... of ... words.
Next time through a couple of those, I'll have to stop and rewind in some places.
Still, having said all that, it's still worth it -- this is useful to me.
________
Watching those vids again.
This is what occurs to me. Some of the instructors are talking WAY TOO FAST.
Like radio announcers trying to sell a product.
Instruction needs to be slow, determined, room between ideas to allow processing. I know that's driven by the idea that people have limited attention spans, so you have to put LOTS of information into a short time.
But it doesn't work ... at least for me, especially when doing trainings.
Good teachers give a little info, then stop, preferably ask for questions,
then go to the next point, then ask for questions, etc.
I know this because I'm a teacher with 40 years experience.
Waytoofastresultsinablurofwords.
Way ... too ... fast ... results ... in ... a ... blur ... of ... words.
Next time through a couple of those, I'll have to stop and rewind in some places.
Still, having said all that, it's still worth it -- this is useful to me.
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AStone
Member
OK, just watched all but one of those videos again. Repetition, repetition, repetition.
It's starting to come together as a system for me now. I'm understanding the grip, the isosceles stance, and really like JM's idea of bringing the pistol up to your eye without bending over to it. That long stand alone video of his in BDS's post #109 is really helpful.
I can't get the 9c until Friday -- scheduling issues. But it's going to be easier to try this out with it.
I bought 100 rnds 124 grn target ammo today --- all the budget will allow at the moment (I have a major computer repair issue eating my budget.) But that will allow me to do a first set of exercises for these new ideas.
Looking forward to better training in another state in November and beyond.
It's starting to come together as a system for me now. I'm understanding the grip, the isosceles stance, and really like JM's idea of bringing the pistol up to your eye without bending over to it. That long stand alone video of his in BDS's post #109 is really helpful.
I can't get the 9c until Friday -- scheduling issues. But it's going to be easier to try this out with it.
I bought 100 rnds 124 grn target ammo today --- all the budget will allow at the moment (I have a major computer repair issue eating my budget.) But that will allow me to do a first set of exercises for these new ideas.
Looking forward to better training in another state in November and beyond.
LiveLife
Member
If you want to try something different at the range, you could try point shooting. I consider point shooting essential skill for carry pistols as use of sights may not be practical in some defensive shooting situations. I outlined my point shooting drill in this post - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9859706#post9859706
So you can do things like these - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9866378#post9866378
So you can do things like these - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9866378#post9866378
AStone
Member
That ^ looks like some really good stuff, right there.
Scanned the first link -- it's midnight here at the end of a long day
-- and glanced at the video description in your second link.
Thanks mucho. Will read and watch repeatedly.
This just gets better and better ...
Scanned the first link -- it's midnight here at the end of a long day
-- and glanced at the video description in your second link.
Thanks mucho. Will read and watch repeatedly.
This just gets better and better ...
AStone
Member
PS: I've practiced some point shooting. My SW 642 -- just sold it -- was a point shooter.
It was made for up close and personal. What sights? All over the map at 10 yds,
but point it at COM and it could do passably.
And point shooting with it just made more sense to me. Belly gun they called it.
But the 9c is a different story. Sights good for 25 yards AND point shooting.
Yeah.
It was made for up close and personal. What sights? All over the map at 10 yds,
but point it at COM and it could do passably.
And point shooting with it just made more sense to me. Belly gun they called it.
But the 9c is a different story. Sights good for 25 yards AND point shooting.
Yeah.
AStone
Member
I have some excellent news. I found a way to get there tomorrow afternoon.me said:
I may or may not have time to shoot it then. But at least I can get it.
I'm going to carry the ammo just in case I can stay.
If not, I'll make it back Friday.
But at least, I get it tomorrow.
Could even be best to just get it, bring it home, field strip it, clean it,
lube it, and go back on Friday with ammo to shoot it first time.
I'm smiling over here.
AStone
Member
It's in my hands
Have already taken it down (so easy), cleaned out factory grease, smoothed a couple of rough edges with some fine emery paper,
did a very light lube (Tetra Gun) wiping off excess. Back together. Safety is a bit stiff, so working it a million times.
Practicing the grips I'm learning in the videos upstream.
With gun in hand, they make infinitely more sense.
Loving it so far.
Back to the store/range w/ 100 rnds of 124 gr target rnds through it,
along with a few Federal Premium HST 124, my first candidate for carry rnd.
Here's the obligatory maiden pic.
Have already taken it down (so easy), cleaned out factory grease, smoothed a couple of rough edges with some fine emery paper,
did a very light lube (Tetra Gun) wiping off excess. Back together. Safety is a bit stiff, so working it a million times.
Practicing the grips I'm learning in the videos upstream.
With gun in hand, they make infinitely more sense.
Loving it so far.
Back to the store/range w/ 100 rnds of 124 gr target rnds through it,
along with a few Federal Premium HST 124, my first candidate for carry rnd.
Here's the obligatory maiden pic.
Attachments
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AStone
Member
Thanks, Mike. Already am.
Earlier, I went down to the pub downstairs and had a couple of IPA's.
(Fresh hops season over here._
Got back up here, and learned that .. how do I say this?
I'm faster with my left hand (and my left eye is dominant)
than with my right. Right hand as support hand works way better.
What?
Earlier, I went down to the pub downstairs and had a couple of IPA's.
(Fresh hops season over here._
Got back up here, and learned that .. how do I say this?
I'm faster with my left hand (and my left eye is dominant)
than with my right. Right hand as support hand works way better.
What?
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