Rumsfeld Questions Venezuela on Rifles

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http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-exec/2005/mar/23/032301802.html

Today: March 23, 2005 at 8:40:31 PST


Rumsfeld Questions Venezuela on Rifles
By JOHN J. LUMPKIN
ASSOCIATED PRESS


BRASILIA, Brazil (AP) -

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Wednesday that reports of Venezuela's efforts to purchase 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia were troubling, suggesting the South American country has no need for so many weapons.

"I can't understand why Venezuela needs 100,000 AK-47s," he said during a press conference with Brazil's Vice President and Defense Minister Jose Alencar. "I personally hope it doesn't happen. I can't imagine if it did happen it would be good for the hemisphere."

American officials in Washington have expressed concern about the health of democracy under Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, his stance toward leftist Colombian rebels and his moves to buy helicopters and Kalashnikov rifles from Russia.

Although Rumsfeld and Alencar praised U.S. and Brazilian cooperation on a number of issues, fractures were apparent: Alencar refused to directly criticize Venezuela or the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), which the United States considers a terrorist organization but Brazil does not.

Asked whether Brazil would consider FARC a terrorist organization, Alencar said through a translator, "From a distance, we cannot make a final judgment with respect to this question. However, if the organization adopts crime as an instrument for raising resources, obviously, it is injurious."

Rumsfeld also met with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and then was to fly to the jungle city Manaus to view what the Brazilians call "SIVAM" - or Amazon Surveillance System - a powerful array of radars and other sensors, networked to monitor both criminal activity and environmental conditions in the Amazon, the world's largest wilderness.

Rumsfeld has pushed for countries to assert control over remote areas within their borders, arguing that criminal and terrorist elements could flourish in the absence of a government presence.

Drug flights over the area covered by the network have been reduced by 30 percent since it went online, according to a senior U.S. defense official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

The $1.4 billion network of airborne and ground-based radars and computers can also monitor illegal landing strips and climatic conditions in some of the 2 million square miles of jungle that comprises the Amazon.

SIVAM was built by U.S. defense contractor Raytheon Corp. Critics have argued it focuses too much on security issues and not enough on regions where illegal logging and other environmental damage takes place.

Rumsfeld was to fly to Guatemala later Wednesday.

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"I can't understand why Venezuela needs 100,000 AK-47s,"

Well, I can't understand why politicians need to have a justification for others to excersize their rights. :fire:

a) A right does not require justification

b) Venezuela is a sovereign nation and they can do as they please

c) Why didn't we sell them 100,000 M-16s?

Put yourself in Venezuela's zapatos for a minute, Mr. Rumsfeld. What would you do if you were faced with a domestic insurgency, rampant drug gangs and a not-so reliable superpower next door?

Now, as an American, I fail to see how a bunch of rifles in a country a few thousand miles away threatens U.S. national security.
 
Not supporting or attacking the SECDEF here.

However, I do think that we have made a HUGE mistake in not taking batter care of our hemisphere. Ties into the drug issue, immigration, and our ability to deal with a more powerful EU and pacific rim.

We need to watch our own back yard more.
 
Fletch, because our boys will have to clean up the mess that Chavez throws. Besides, doesn't THR collectively wring its hands over immigration? Civil wars in South America would spark increased immigration to the USA.

Why get an end user cert for 100K AKs? So, Chavez can arm his supporters against the middle class and organize leftist movements throughout South America. As the kids today say--duh! It's all about the guns, then it's about the bling-bling.
 
Chavez is a Castro wannabe who is strongly anti-American. When a person like this is acquiring weapons, questioning his motives makes sense.

Fletchette, FYI Venezuela is a major oil exporter whose leader has threatened to stop selling oil to the U.S.
 
Fletch, because our boys will have to clean up the mess that Chavez throws. Besides, doesn't THR collectively wring its hands over immigration? Civil wars in South America would spark increased immigration to the USA.

This arguement is only valid if one assumes that we continue to have a stupid policy with regards to our own border (admittedly, a valid assumption). I.e., if we had decent border security we would be relatively immune to an increase in illegal immigration due to a civil war in a South American country.

Yes, I agree that Chavez is a left-wing-nut-Castro-wannabe. He is definitely no friend of the United States. So what. We could let Venezuela suffer the consequences of their own mistakes without compromising our national security in the slightest. If we felt compelled to help the masses when there is chaos in the streets, I personally think the best thing we could do would be to fly a couple of C-17s over and air-drop 100K M-16s right into the hands of the populace. Yes, there would be bloodshed, but it would stop a genocide and we would not risk our own troops.
 
P.S.

Fletchette, FYI Venezuela is a major oil exporter whose leader has threatened to stop selling oil to the U.S.

Yes, I know that we buy a lot of oil from Venezuela. I am really sick of the U.S. being held over a barrel (pun intended) over oil, once again.

This is a risk of going off topic, but this administration really needs to be proactive on alternative energy sources. A fairly simple solution would be to embrace nuclear energy and provide incentives (tariffs and tax breaks) to make shale-oil competitive. If we had a domestic source of energy we would not be manipulated by all these smaller countries. Furthermore, we would have more leverage over countries like China.

But instead Rummy defacto endorses global Brady Bills... :cuss:
 
...this administration really needs to be proactive on alternative energy sources. A fairly simple solution would be to embrace nuclear energy and provide incentives (tariffs and tax breaks) to make shale-oil competitive.

Oh, fine! Go ahead and inject a perfectly rational, reasonable proposal into the discussion! See if I care!

Seriously: sad to say, the very word "nuclear" would provoke the leftist extremist Luddites into conniption fits. We should have gone nuclear a long, long time ago.
 
Guys I have to agree with Fletchette on this one.

How would we in the US feel if Venezuela started telling W "Hey why do you guys need all those new M-4's". We'd have a ????storm here bitching about why Venezuela was meedleling into our business. So why are we meedleling in theirs. If I was W, I'd beef up our borders and have the national guards or army patroling it.

Of on a tangent here, but frankly, I think we need to relie more on Nuclear power and or dump a crap load of money into alternative energy methods such as solar, wind etc. I hate the fact this great country is under the thumbs of the towelheads of OPEC or other oil rich countries like Venezuela.
 
c) Why didn't we sell them 100,000 M-16s?

Probably because of the high likelihood that they will be used to kill those sympathetic to Americans in the region...

This has zip to do with self-defense. Those AKs are going to various narcoguerillas with socialist roots in neighboring governments and will be used to destabilize U.S. allies in the region.

All Rumsfeld is doing is putting a warning shot across Chavez's bow.
 
Chavez believes the US was directly or indirectly helping his opposition. He somehow managed to survive an assassination attempt, a coup, and a recount.

I asked a Venezuelian buddy of mine about it. He claims the weapons are in case Bush wants to invade their country. Whether or not this is true, it's the popular opinion in Venezuela.
 
Real world though, the US still sort of uses Monroe doctrine. That's the problem, S America has been America's 'circle of influence' for over a hundred years. Then the Soviets found that a lot of S Americans didn't like living life low. Lol Marx said people eat the crumbs that the wealthy drop, but these people were living like flies on the sheet that plops. So the US really pushed an entire continent away, you can't hold onto a beautiful woman if you treat her badly, especially when the Soviets are serenading outside the window "Baby you're beautiful, you don't need him, you are smart and strong, you can be self-sufficient, baby I love you, baby you have so many natural resources you shouldn't give them away to him, he doesn't appreciate you.".

That's how you should view it, US and Soviets were guys trying to woo the beautiful seniorita. Now the Soviets aren't competitors anymore, but they can still keep in touch with their old girlfriend, maybe become 'friends with benefits ;) '

Besides, logically the AR based rifles are not suitable for South America, less maintenance and training and expense means everyone, even soldiers, want Kalashnikovs. Hell Iraq, under US occupation, is buying new European Kalashnikovs. Besides, what would Venezuela buy from America. the new Bullpup rifle we have? The XM8?

I think Rummy is just saying "Baby don't you mess around with that foo. You mine, you know it, I'll have you back some day. I know you love me!" (insert scene from COPS)
 
Lithuania 1 Venezuela 1 (Tie)

How does Rumsfeld think the Russians are supposed to pay for things like the space station, nuke disarming, mega loans and pension checks for the starving masses? I think anything that stabilizes Russia economically is better for us and the world. What would we expect after the great Lithuanian "insult"? :fire:
 
He claims the weapons are in case Bush wants to invade their country. Whether or not this is true, it's the popular opinion in Venezuela.

Popular opinion in plenty of countries who believe Iraq's mistake was not having the weapons they were alleged to have had.
 
The US is concerned about the rifles because the possiblity/probabilty that they'll either be provided to rebels in colombia (or heck, maybe a brand new little war down there) or provided to militia bands of loyal gangs/thugs like those groups in Iraq.

So, yeah, we're a little concerned about the Venz stability in regards to $80 barrels of oil.

I'd say its conceivable we're looking ahead when we'll feel the need to send the airborne troops in.

Russia's reply should be "hey, you'd rather us sell them to your citiziens, that's good too". Then I would like to get on the list for 3, please. :evil:
 
So, yeah, we're a little concerned about the Venz stability in regards to $80 barrels of oil.

I'd say its conceivable we're looking ahead when we'll feel the need to send the airborne troops in.


And that is exactly why they are buying more guns. :rolleyes:
 
I asked a Venezuelian buddy of mine about it. He claims the weapons are in case Bush wants to invade their country. Whether or not this is true, it's the popular opinion in Venezuela.

If the U.S. invaded Venezuela, 100,000 AKs aren't going to do much to save Chavez. He'd be better off spending the money on a Washington DC law firm to lobby Congress for him like everybody else does.
 
Too true. So far, our government seems much more afraid of Standing Wolf’s “assault lawyers†than it is of enemy states’ assault rifles or even WMDs.

~G. Fink
 
Chavez is probably more worried about keeping his comfortable seat, and his head attached to his neck, than the US invading.

Lots of folks would like to run things there, I bet competition is fierce.

He probably also has visions of supporting revolutions throughout Central and South America, just like his hero Castro.
 
Castro sent seudo Doctors and Teachers to help in the educations terms of Chavez in other words, he is turning Venezuela to a second Cuba. Castro happy because Chavez send oil every day even though Castro don't pays the bills. Castro smart POS, Chavez moron King. If Chavez don't sell us oil I do believe there are no other countries to buy all the oil we use together.

CZhen
Fl
 
Castro sent seudo Doctors and Teachers to help in the educations terms of Chavez in other words, he is turning Venezuela to a second Cuba. Castro happy because Chavez send oil every day even though Castro don't pays the bills. Castro smart POS, Chavez moron King. If Chavez don't sell us oil I do believe there are no other countries to buy all the oil we use together.

Chavez was democratically elected, and also survived a recount vote. His country supports him, Castro or not.

Oil is oil. It will always have a demand. China and Europe are definitely willing to buy oil from Venezuela. Venezuela might lose a few cents per barrel on shipping costs, but they'll still be making a hefty profit. Venezuela can more afford to stop shipping oil to the US than the US can afford not having Venezuelian oil.
 
Venezuela can more afford to stop shipping oil to the US than the US can afford not having Venezuelian oil.

What will he use to buy AKs with then? If Venezuela dropped out of the market tomorrow, prices would go up; but it wouldn't create any type of crisis in the U.S.

For a comparison, Norway produces as much crude oil as Venezuela does. For that matter, you could eliminate Venezuela from the world oil market entirely and actually increase the amount of oil available if you could just get the Russian infrastructure back to its Soviet-era capacity.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/oil_market_basics/Sup_image_worldprod.htm
 
"I can't understand why Venezuela needs 100,000 AK-47s," he said during a press conference with Brazil's Vice President and Defense Minister Jose Alencar. "I personally hope it doesn't happen. I can't imagine if it did happen it would be good for the hemisphere."

This may be a little off topic but does anyone know how many AK type rifles the U.S. has imported for commercial sale in the last few years? I know a BUNCH of Romanian AKs have come in and lots of people are buying them. I got one! It just shows that despite all out b!tching and complaning about not being free, we really are doing O.K. We not only are allowed to import "assult rifles" for private sale but by and large, we can handle the responsibility of owning them without killing our fellow Americans. Once in a while someone goes nuts and shoots up a school or something but they almost never do it under a situation where it would have been legal for them to have that gun.

My point is, the laws we have are good enough if we just enforced the laws we have, we wouldn't need to make new ones for people to ignore.
 
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