Run in with LEO last night, not too happy....

[sendec]

Is there any possibility at all....

That the in-car video from the cruiser will not support your statement? That the officer may have heard any number of different variations on your theme? That your definition of 'professionalism" may differ from that agencies?

Where should a stupid motorist trick fall on the LE criticality scale? Is it more important or less important than a driveaway, or vandalism, or a noisy party, or stolen car, or a rape, or a murder? After all, the guys already dead, so whats the hurry? Your sister was careless and you commited a violation and you are the victim here? Granted, the LE community would lose a lot of work if people actually thought before they acted, but hey, the cops should be out chasing real criminals, right. No wait, they should be out dispensing gas.

Look, are you mad at the Deputy, or your sister, or embarassed that you got caught? Go ahead, file the complaint if it will make you feel better. The majority of IA complaints boil down to "the officer was'nt nice to me." I am sure that he and his supervisor have nothing better to do than mollify your hurt feelings, but man, listen to yourself. Your sister was'nt "victimized," and neither were the millions of other people who filled their tanks and did'nt back up off ramps. The police are public servants, and occasionally the service is to tell people not to do stupid stuff.

 

[J Jones]

When does making threats qualify as professionalism?

Granted, the LE community would lose a lot of work if people actually thought before they acted

Why? Is thinking not required? Perhaps if the officer thought more and acted less, he'd have fewer problems to deal with.

 

[12-34hom]

Just Wondering??

kbr80 -

No, just a normal run in with JBT's all authority, no brains at all

Since you were a JBT for 15 years; are you speaking from experience or is that just speculation on your part....

12-34hom.

 

[artherd]

50 Freak-

Through failure to act on information that a crime may be imminent (two women alone stranded on the side of 280 at night.) the officers may have not just been rude. They may be guilty of a felony.

They certinly may have placed your family in danger through failure to act.

PM me about the ticket. CA has many laws that may be to your advantage. (I know you don't give much of a crap, but the pricniple offends *me!*

Two things from a bench-warmer with 20-20 hindsight.:

1) Why the hell didn't both of those women have a dam cell phone?

2) Rectify the can't-drive-stick situation immediately.

 

[fix]

They may be guilty of a felony.

Oh for the love of God, make this nonsense stop!!! Being a tool is not a crime. We only have one side of this story, and based entirely on that it appears as if this was merely an exchange of harsh words between two guys who were not in the best of moods. We know why 50 Freak was not in a good mood. We don't know about the officer in question.

"I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway".

Maybe you should have just taken the ticket and then explained your situation to the officer in detail rather than being critical of him for giving you a ticket for a violation that is not disputed by any party involved.

 

[Logan5]

Bleah... we're getting pretty far afield from the gun portion, aren't we?

My two cents: Does your wife have a permit? If you feel you'd have to leave someone without a permit holding your glock even though troopers have been dispatched to your location, I'd say cram them in the car and take them with you instead, even if you have to pile a load of junk from your vehicle into the disabled one to make room.
It's going to be a really hideous situation if the wife has to shoot someone, or even if the cop spots her packing your glock without a permit. And the glock's not going to help if some drunk slams into the back of the disabled car at a high rate of speed, which is equally or more likely than the Manson family hopping out of the bushes.

 

[Blue Line]

The ticket and the so-called rudeness are two seperate things. Complain about his rudness to the proper persons, write it down mail it in etc etc etc. If your not contesting the ticket then pay it. Or if you go to court and explain why you were backing up maybe the judge will see it your way and give you a pass. I wouldn' t have left the girls alone, 20-20 hind sight because the car and such can be replaced. Get the kid or wife a cell phone!

 

[Wildalaska]

I'm pretty angry as we have been there for about 15 minutes now.

Hmmm...and did our anger show?

I say to him "I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway".

Maybe you should have said.."Gee Deputy, Im sorry, but I am worried about my sister who is missing here etc etc..."

Rudeness begets rudeness.

WildclosecallhereAlaska

 

[50 Freak]

Granted you all are only getting one side of the story but I am telling it as I remember it. Here are some more details to the story.

Never once did I have "attitude", yell, curse or even raise my voice at the officer. I'm not that stupid to think that you can be an A$$ to someone that you are trying to get to help you. Plus I try to treat the LEO's the way I wanted to be treated myself. Even after his buddy and him had a joke session on my behalf, I tried to keep my professionalism. So other than the statement I made, I was the model citizen.

If my statement "I can't believe that you are more concerned about giving me a ticket than the safety of two females stranded on the freeway" is enough justification for a LEO to threaten to drag me out of my car and arrest me, then I better pack my bags, as this is not the America I grew up in. I even suggested that he have his buddy (the other squad car) go check while he was giving me the ticket. No go on his part.

In retrospect, yes I should have taken the girls with me in the car, but we were told CHP was on the way. We saw a couple go by during the 30 minutes we were waiting. I guess it was getting late, and I was getting tired of waiting. The gas station was 5 or 6 miles away from this spot. I thought I could be there and back in a flash. Bad judgment call on my part. It's not going to happen again.

When the officer first approached my car. I stopped him by saying "before you give me a ticket, my sister and wife are stranded on the highway, and they are missing" Then I proceed to explain all that happened leading up to the time he pulled me over. I even pointed the freshly bought gas canister full of gas sitting in the front passenger side. So he was fully aware of my situation before he even left to write the ticket.

And my wife had a cell phone on her, I unfortunately didn't grab mine in my haste leaving the house. My sis didn't have her cell (she actually lost it last week) and that is why she was calling from a call box.

 

[Hedger]

As a deputy prosecutor, I am pro-LEO as most of you may have noticed from my prior posts on some of the cop bashing threads on this subject. However, if an LEO said those words to you in that manner, let his supervisor know. He may have been exhausted, may have just had a bad encounter or just a bad burrito for dinner that didn't sit well. In any event, his super needs to know about it and should review the situation. They may even have it on video/audio, so make sure your report is accurate, including your end of it.

Our office has to review these type of complaints from time to time (thankfully not very frequently). LEOs are human and we take that into account. Even so, I am not aware of any LEO agency we work with (about 8 different ones) who would think that was an acceptable response to a motorist in that situation. Doesn't mean the guy will get fired, suspended or anything that severe. Probably a review of "courteous contact" policy of the department would be warranted.

I have viewed literally hundreds of traffic stop videos in the last eight years. The best LEOs I know tend to merely smile and get really polite when a motorist says something to yank their chain. They never argue with people when they are handing out a ticket. They know what they can and can't do during a traffic stop and know that there is no profit in arguing.

It is important for you to report it if it came down as you say. That type of attitude makes it harder for all LEOs (and prosecutors) to deal with the public.

 

[JohnKSa]

My folks used to live in a pretty bad neighborhood. My dad isn't one to look the other way and he organized a local Neighborhood Watch (local police sponsored program). Every so often they'd have a meeting and a cop would come out to give a talk. The theme of the talk was always: "If you see anything suspicious, give us a call so we can deal with it."

One day, dad got home from work early and while he was cleaning out his van he noticed a suspicious vehicle doing slooooow laps around the neighborhood. This went on for about 45 minutes right around the time the elementary school up the street lets out. It looked pretty fishy so dad called the local police on the non-emergency line.

A cop showed up and dad pointed out the car which was just turning the corner a few blocks down. The cop got out of his car and wrote dad a parking ticket. Not only did he ignore the real problem, but the ticket wasn't even valid--it was dismissed--the cop didn't know the local regs.

Since then, I don't expect to get any real support from the cops unless tickets are involved.

 

[GigaBuist]

Of course, I've got the luxury of thinking about this for HOURS while you just had seconds, but here's my thoughts.

Given how close you were to where they should have been, I'd have laid down my keys and said I'd find them on foot if need be. Write me the ticket, fine, I agree what I did was illega, but I will not sit idle until I know they're safe. If that causes him a huge problem, fine, send the other LEO out to look for them and I'll willingly lay down on the ground and be cuffed so you feel safe. The other LEO was there for backup in case you went nutty I presume, which is why he didn't want the other guy going anywhere. If you're cuffed on the ground the 1st officer SHOULD feel safe. If not, well, he's in the wrong line of work.

To others who say, "Well, he might have just been having a bad day." I call horse crap on that one. It is his JOB to inteface with the public. Period. If he cannot do that in a calm manner than he's in the wrong line of work. Is it hard? Yes! As a computer professional I am not entitled to throwing machines on the ground or refusing to do my primary duty (to serve and protect in his case) just because I'm ticked off. It'd be like me reviewing backup log files while the entire network is down. My primary job is to keep things running. When that's not requiring immediate attention you can do your typical support-like duties. Writing tickets is NOT his primary job. It is to serve and protect.

I'd file a complaint definately. If the complaint isn't dealt with in some manner or another it may warrant taking it to court on the principal of the matter. If the ticket was that darned important to keep him from doing his primary job then take it court on that principal. Being in court keeps that officer from doing his primary job and make sure the judge knows WHY you are there.

 

[50 Freak]

JohnKSa,

Man that sucks, I've got a bad CHP story about how my dad was given a speeding ticket for doing over a 100 by a CHPer who said she clocked him with a radar gun. In court, it turns out she didn't even have a radar gun in her car, it was her husband (another CHPer) who clocked a him 20 miles earlier before my dad even aproached her location and who wasn't even present during the court case. My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court. Poor guy spent thousands of dollars on an atty and attended court 300 miles away from home because he believed he was in the right.

Didn't matter to the judge that my dad is the kind of guy that hadn't received as much as a parking ticket in the over 30 years and has a spotless record. Don't understand it.

There are good LEO's, and like everything there are bad LEO's, we all seem to remember the bad LEO's with a vengence, but seem to fail to remember that they are only a very small percentage of the whole.

 

[sendec]

Through failure to act on information that a crime may be imminent (two women alone stranded on the side of 280 at night.) the officers may have not just been rude. They may be guilty of a felony.

They certinly may have placed your family in danger through failure to act.

PM me about the ticket. CA has many laws that may be to your advantage. (I know you don't give much of a crap, but the pricniple offends *me!*


Crime imminent!!!!!!!!!! Missing women not abducted!!!!!! Family in danger!!!!!!! Feeeeeelonious deputies!!!!!!!!! Jackboots!!!!!!!!! RUDENESS!!!!!!

I cannot figure out what the problem is, too many drugs or not enough. Look, if people could take care of themselves, we would'nt NEED the police, but of course they are never around anyway, except when you are on a rescue mission for a damsel in distress and hang a Uey, then the heartless prongs do something like enforce the law, the unfeeling bastards. Cops can be reasonably certain that no less than half of the people they deal with are going to be upset with how the cops handled the situation. They are not in the business of making friends or winning popularity contests. While a great cop will make you thank him or her for the privilege of receiving your very own personalized traffic ticket carefully prepared just for you, they are few and far between. The vast majority are, dare I say it, human, with good days and bad. Go ahead, file your complaint, ask for your nickel back. Maybe between death notifications, cats in trees, alarm drops and child molest calls, he will get an epiphany and beg your forgiveness for interfering with this critical mission and leaving the fair maiden at risk of deflowering.

PM this guy and take his advice. Let us know what happens, decent sitcoms are rare.

 

[rde]

Typical LEO behavior that I see rather regularly in this neck of the woods. Power trip..using the threat of (if not making an actual arrest) to prove themselves. Kind of a "God Complex." Being retired military I have had a hard time biting my lip when I see or have been involved in something similar. Eventually these amateurs are going to push the wrong person and they are going to pay a penalty. It is just a matter of time.

 

[JohnKSa]

This was a local PD--Garland, TX--their latest newsworthy deed was searching a man's car using his NRA bumper sticker as probable cause. Judge didn't go for it.

Here's another one involving my folks. I was home visiting so I got this one firsthand.

It was late on a Friday night and I was in the front room on the sofa bed.

I started hearing shots coming down the street.

pop, Pop, POP, bang, BANG, BOOM!

I grabbed a pair of pants and headed out the front door, closely followed by my dad. Seems some idiots had emptied a .38 or .357 revolver while driving down the street.

By the time we got outside, there were several other neighbors outside. The last shot had gone through one side of dad's van punching out a neat disc of metal (I found it later) that went across the van and broke the window on the opposite side. The bullet went straight across and exited through the roof/side of the van.

When the cops got there, they took one look and started accusing dad of having moved the van--said it must have gotten shot elsewhere and he brought it home then reported it. This in spite of numerous "ear" witnesses confirming that it happened right then and there. They claimed that the broken window on the off side was proof that every one on the scene was lying.

If they had spent about 5 minutes, they could have walked down the street and found bullet holes in other cars and even in a couple of houses--guess that was too much work.

I'm not trying to say that all LEOs are like this. On the other hand, around here at least, your chances of getting genuine help seem to be low--your chances of getting yanked around seem high.

 

[kbr80]

Since you were a JBT for 15 years; are you speaking from experience or is that just speculation on your part....

12-34 Hom

Experience. I was not a JBT, unlike most of the Cops today. I had this real individual thing called thinking for myself and trying to project an image of respect, giving respect and receiving. You must understand, a police force is an extension of the populace it serves. Or at least thats the way I learned in in the Army. "Of the troops, for the Troops" Just think if police officers thought that way. Makes you wonder.

The majority of LEO's today are unprofessional. Since you are always coming to their rescue, I feel safe to say you are a member of that group. There is no reason i can think of for a peace officer to tell some one to "shut up, i can drag you out of that car and arrest you". No reason. If you let anger get to you and shout shut up, you do not need to be in Law Enforcement. 2nd, if you can drag some one out of a car and arrest them, do so, dont announce it to stroke your ego.

 

[Kestrel]

I wouldn't have cottoned very well to a cop/deputy telling me to "shut up" and then threatening me. He should be called on the carpet. I don't care if he had a bad day or not - it could have caused dire consequences with the situation with his sister and wife. I'd have a hard time letting that sass and attitude go, in light of the situation.

[Bill Hartman voice] But hey, that's just me. You'll probably sleep a lot better if you don't listen to my ramblings...

Steve

 

[Nick96]

Hey J Jones - your comment about getting a mini recorder has merit. A month or so ago a cabby here was pulled over and verbably abused by an officer. He did have a recorder (actually a feature on his cell phone as I recall) and recorded it all. When it finally got the media's attention the officer was fired in a matter of weeks.

The sad thing though is this same officer had received numerous such complaints going back several years - but nothing was done until a recording of his threats & vulgarities finally surfaced.

In the case of the officer in the freeway case - go ahead and file a complaint - but don't expect anything will be done. However, someday, someone like this will screw up with the wrong person, on video or audio. And combined with a collection of complaints - that will be it.

 

[J Jones]

In court, it turns out she didn't even have a radar gun in her car, it was her husband (another CHPer) who clocked a him 20 miles earlier before my dad even aproached her location and who wasn't even present during the court case. My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court.

All after the fact, but you realize that if the officer didn't get the reading themself, then they are testifying about heresay. Dad should've appealed.




Nick96,

I would think that some digital cameras would also work in this capacity, except they eat batteries like no tomorrow. The idea, however, is to be unobtrusive, so I think audio recordings are the best bet. I can just see officer "friendly" thinking he sees a gun, roughing you up and "accidently" erasing the recording should he suspect anything.

There is no reason i can think of for a peace officer to tell some one to "shut up, i can drag you out of that car and arrest you". No reason. If you let anger get to you and shout shut up, you do not need to be in Law Enforcement. 2nd, if you can drag some one out of a car and arrest them, do so, dont announce it to stroke your ego.

100% agreement. If you have cause, do it. If not, then you're just trying to intimidate.

I cannot figure out what the problem is, too many drugs or not enough. Look, if people could take care of themselves, we would'nt NEED the police, but of course they are never around anyway, except when you are on a rescue mission for a damsel in distress and hang a Uey, then the heartless prongs do something like enforce the law, the unfeeling bastards. Cops can be reasonably certain that no less than half of the people they deal with are going to be upset with how the cops handled the situation. They are not in the business of making friends or winning popularity contests. While a great cop will make you thank him or her for the privilege of receiving your very own personalized traffic ticket carefully prepared just for you, they are few and far between. The vast majority are, dare I say it, human, with good days and bad. Go ahead, file your complaint, ask for your nickel back. Maybe between death notifications, cats in trees, alarm drops and child molest calls, he will get an epiphany and beg your forgiveness for interfering with this critical mission and leaving the fair maiden at risk of deflowering.

If I knew what the hell you were saying, I'd try to respond. As it stands, your attempts to patronize are falling flat.

 

[50 Freak]

And I thought it was just me that didn't understand what the heck he was saying.

To sum up the whole thing, I called the Complaint Division and spoke to a "Detective Sargent" (didn't know such a thing existed). He said since he didn't hear both sides of the story he really couldn't say what would happen. But if what I was telling him was true, the threatening of a civilian by a LEO is not something that is tolerated and needs to addressed. He is sending me the complaint paperwork tomorrow.

I'll fill it out and file it. If nothing happens, I will know that at least I tried. I don't want the LEO fired or suspended or anything like this. All I want him to realize is that threatening people is not professional and no way for representative of the law enforcement community to act.

End of story.

 

[roo_ster]

JohnKSa:

I feel for your folks...and I'm sure glad I bought in Richardson.

So far, I've had nothing but professionalism and honesty from any City of Richardson employees/officials: cops, dog catcher, building permit office, city council, & mayor. So far I haven't met a bad apple. Consequently, I view encounters with City of Richardson officialdom with a positive atitude. I hope it stays that way, 'cause I like this town.

That was not the case in some other locales I have inhabited.

50 Freak:

Well, thankfully the family is safe.

I had "shoot, move, communicate" ingrained into my psyche and still inventory when I leave the house:
CCW? check
Quality footgear & car keys? check
Cell phone? check

 

[50 Freak]

CCW: check
Carbine for the trunk: check
Shotgun for "close encounters": check
Sniper, for "reach out and touch someone": check
Extra mags for all: check
Non magnetic Titanium MPK folder: check
HI Khukuri for hacking zombie heads off: check
Surefire: check
Batteries: check
Gas mask: check
Duct tape: check
Biosuit: check
Extra filters: check
Clean water: check
Carkeys: check
Extra cash to buy yourself extra ammo: check
Cipro: for anthrax attacks: check
Condoms for some R&R and to keep dust out of your barrel: check
MRE's: check
Maps: check
2 way radios: check
Cell phones: check

Good to go


Damn, forgot clean undies......

:banghead:

 

[artherd]

My dad still lost, despite him having a witness in the car, and the CHPer having lied in court. Poor guy spent thousands of dollars on an atty and attended court 300 miles away from home because he believed he was in the right.

Your dad needs a (much) better lawyer. The CHP commited purjury, in a matter directly relivant to the defandant's guilt. The case should have been thrown out, and your father could have gone after the CHP for damages and false arrest.

As Edmund Burke says, the ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’


To all of those who think I am over-reacting in my condemnation of the CHP's dismissal of 50 Freak's daughter and sister's safety, I pose the following question; Do you have a sister? Is her life less important than 15minuites of ticket-writing (or a simple radio call) to you?



sendec- I always try in my discussions to approach logic and tact with the same. However, you sadly leave me no options in that regard.

 

[50 Freak]

Hey I agree, but this was held in some one horse town and the lawyer was the only one in the yellow pages and recomended by the court. I felt pretty guilty as he was driving up to see his only son get married, and I offered to pay for everything. He declined and just chalked it up to experience. He lost his full driving privilages and had to get a provisional license for a year.

He's said if he'd survived Vietnam, going one year with only a provision license was no sweat. Can't argue with that man sometimes.