Running a deer ranch: Musings from a family run operation.

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Want to bet. That's not what I am referring to. What I am referring to is the lack of public ground for the common man to hunt (that's what I'm getting from the other posts). That's not where I want to live !!!!!! I'm glad you guys love it though !!! OYE

Waa, waaaaa, waaaah. Texas has public land, but it ain't worth a toot, all pine woods. Great if you live there and can scout it, but it's a long drive for me. You need to spend time in such woods.

Texas has lots of private land for a historical reason. When we won our war for independence, one thing we didn't have is money. We gave patriots who fought in the war land as payment. None was set aside for public hunting. :rolleyes:

Now, Texas HAS money...oil money. We should secede and become a member of OPEC. We'd have the US on its knees. :D

Really, though, all kidding aside, if you don't like it here, keep your butt north of the Red River. We have enough yankee transplants as it is!

I like New Mexico, 51 percent public hunting and not that far a drive, can make it in one day, BUT, there are reasons I wouldn't live there. State income tax for one. Politics is another. Good gun laws, though. :D
 
OYE said:
What I am referring to is the lack of public ground for the common man to hunt (that's what I'm getting from the other posts).

I'll give you the point that in comparison to some other states, Texas has very little public hunting area where anyone and everyone can just walk out into the woods and shoot some deer. Of course, once people do some research, there actually is plenty of land available to hunt on, you just need a bit of preparation. After all, there is more military land in Texas open for hunting than some states have land total. There's also Corps of Engineers land and many of the state and national forests. There's plenty of places to go hunt in Texas if you don't want to do a game ranch type setup.

Of course, there's always the flip side. We get a lot of out of state hunters that come from states that are all public hunting land setups, and almost universally hear from them how great it is to actually see deer while deer hunting. We often times are told that they see more deer in one day on our ranch than they see all season hunting at home.

So, a little of this, a little of that, pick the style of hunting that is most appealing to you and everyone be safe in the woods.


Back to the inside secrets of how things work.

One of the biggest issues in running the ranch the last couple years has been water. Central Texas has been in a no joke, kick in the guts drought for a while now. Since the ranch started life running cattle, we have a couple of large stock tanks in place, but with the low rainfall amounts, and almost zero runoff, the last couple of years, calling them mud holes would be an insult to any honest living mud hole. During the spring, the deer do fine on their own because they get a lot of the water they need from the plants they eat. Don't be fooled by us feeding tons and tons of protein, the deer have a habit of wandering off and eating tasty growing things all the time. During the mid to late summer and fall is where the deer have problems. You can chew on sun dried plants all you want, there's no moisture in them. If deer don't get water they stop eating. If they stop eating... well, you can figure the rest out. Of course, mid summer is pretty much the most important time for deer growth because of fawns. If fawns get malnourished it will stunt their growth for the rest of their life. Mess up your water and you mess up your end product, big deer.

Now deer will drink out of the scummy mud stock tanks. I think deer could drink Mexican tap water and be just fine. The problem is we don't want all the deer on the ranch coming to the stock tanks. If you train them all to come to one point on the ranch, it makes it kind of pointless to set up stands in other parts of the ranch. So, to keep the deer spread out over the ranch, we have set up 100 gal water troughs near all the major stand locations. They are all out of sight of the stands, usually within about 200 yards and in some shade. The goal isn't to train the deer to stand out in the open and get shot drinking water, but to keep them used to being in the general area. We intentionally put them out of sight of the stands so the deer won't associate drinking and getting shot. These water troughs of course come with their own variety of problems. The first of which is obviously that someone needs to go out and fill them. We have a well head on both the north and south side, and a couple of the troughs have had pipe run out to them and have float valves. These are pretty worry free as they actually fill themselves. Hey, free work is the best work. For the majority though, the 700gal water trailer that does double duty for burn day and welding fire watch gets to go on tour. In the height of summer, these troughs will be empty in three days, guaranteed. When we go to fill a trough there are a couple things to look for. First, is the board still there? Each trough gets a 2x4 in it. This is for squirrels, mice and other small creatures that come to the trough to drink, fall in and otherwise would drown and float dead in the water until you come fish them out. That's no bueno. If you stick a 2x4 in there they have something they can grab on and climb out of. Second, have raccoons been playing in the trough? If the water level gets too low before you come to refill it, raccoons will climb right in and goof around. They bring plenty of mud and nasty with them, so the tank may need to be turned upside down and have the filth washed out. Third, is the mosquito torpedo still in the tank? These are little black fish looking things that you put in to keep mosquito larvae from growing. Unfortunately, the raccoons fish them out and eat them, play with them... who knows what else. We find them on the ground outside the tanks often enough and just toss them back in. If not, put a new one in. The troughs that run off float valves have gold fish living in them to keep the mosquito population down. Well, they were gold fish when we put them in years and years ago. Now I think they are some fish shaped variety of terminator robot. Their troughs have frozen over several times through the years and the fish come through it just fine, only a little larger the next time we see them.

Between the time it takes to fill the trailer, empty it into the troughs on one side and repeat for the other side, watering the deer is usually a half day job.
 
The lack of federal land in Texas is irrelevant to much of anything. As far as hunting lands open to "just anybody", TP&WD has worked pretty hard in doing deals with timber companies and national forest lands, as well as setting up for hunting on the state's wildlife management lands. E.g., the Black Gap WMA is 106,000 acres.

Sure, hunting lease prices have risen, but then again, I remember nickel coffee and newpapers as well as six-cent cigars or cigarettes at 18 cents per pack. The days of $1,500 new cars are also gone, gone, gone.

Farmers and ranchers buy at retail and sell at wholesale. As the overhead (including ad valorem taxes) has risen, it's hard to blame a guy for charging a trespass fee to a deer hunter. TANSTAAFL.
 
An interesting and well told story, thanks CCD'oh.

Your post could form the basis of an informative article published in a mainstream hunting mag, to educate the general hunting population on responsible and sustainable use of private lands.

Have you noticed any changes to the land/soil, plants/brushes since you sold the cattle and took up deer ranching?

Am also curious as to what is happening to the creek in the No Man's Land between the N. and S. sections. Are you able or allowed to divert some of the heavy rains into dugouts or cisterns? What pressures (hogs? coyote?) from adjoining ranches is that riparian zone subject to?
 
wish we had a bit less public land to hunt in MI. We have 4 or 5 private land owner camps close to ours and we all practice deer management and only harvest mature bucks. problem we have is the hundreds of public land owner hunters that pour in from down state and out of state and kill anything brown they can see. I don't know how many times ive let a 4 or 6 pointer walk away and 10 minutes later heard a shot from the direction it went and just know some that invested nothing into the land to provide for those deer just shot what would have been a nice buck next year. Or the hunter that comes out with 5 doe permits and blows away everything brown he sees.
 
What I have discovered is when you have a banner acorn crop you have to think oujtside the box. Deer are not going out their way to eat corn when there are plenty of acorns. But they will almost climb on my back porch to get bird seed. Right now I am putting out a lot of bird seed. When deer find the bird seed they are fun to watch. They will pick up as much bird seed as they can until something spooks the deer. Most of the deer that come through here are just passing through. In the summer I have deer that hang around. Usually well before hunting season opens the deer that were hanging around move on.
 
An interesting and well told story, thanks CCD'oh.

Your post could form the basis of an informative article published in a mainstream hunting mag, to educate the general hunting population on responsible and sustainable use of private lands.

Have you noticed any changes to the land/soil, plants/brushes since you sold the cattle and took up deer ranching?

Am also curious as to what is happening to the creek in the No Man's Land between the N. and S. sections. Are you able or allowed to divert some of the heavy rains into dugouts or cisterns? What pressures (hogs? coyote?) from adjoining ranches is that riparian zone subject to?
There is plenty of magazines and books out now. A friend of mine owns/leases over 2,400 acres of farmland. He would like to lease the land out to hunting clubs. But they want to treat his farm like a hunting ranch. When you are running a multi million dollar operation growing stuff that deer will eat you would rather people who will kill the deer they see hunt the land for free than some club that kills 30 deer a year and pays for the hunting lease.
 
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twofifty said:
Have you noticed any changes to the land/soil, plants/brushes since you sold the cattle and took up deer ranching?

Oh absolutely. Most people know what cattle land looks like, even if they don't know what they are looking at. Featureless, open, not many bushes in sight, no tall grasses, occasionally a large shade tree and not much of anything else. The land isn't supposed to look like that. Cattle do that to land. Deer on the other hand are very low impact on their environment as long as you maintain them at a responsible population. When we were running cattle, pretty much all that survived on the land were the cedars that cows won't touch and the old oak trees that were too big and stubborn to be effected by cattle. Any new growth got trampled down or eaten. Since we switched to game ranching, the land has made an amazing comeback. Tall grasses and smaller plants that simply didn't exist when cattle were on the ranch are all over the place now. Heck, we have wildflowers and wild grapes again. Deer go nuts for the wild grapes. Overall, except for a few small places that may take a long long time to recover, most of the land has returned to it's natural state.

Of course, that presents some problems in it's own rights, such as, the inevitable flat tire. A shed deer antler can and will go straight through any tire ever manufactured by man. And by amazing coincidence, shed deer antlers are pretty much guaranteed to land with the times facing up like punji stakes. I think it's the same law of nature that makes buttered toasted drop tasty side down. So, if you drive anything, mule, tractor or truck through tall grass on the ranch you better be prepared to walk back. We do our best to collect sheds through the year (hey, great free advertising for how big our bucks grow. Just show those things around a bit and customers come flocking) but there's always one antler that wins at hide and seek every year.

Another problem, Fire. Cattle land is almost fire proof. Anything that could burn got eaten. Natural growth land is much more susceptible to fire. Now, two things about fire: 1) Fire is bad. It burns things up and destroys your stuff. 2) Fire is good. It burns up old things and provides nutrients for new growth. The trick to fire is that generally you don't get much say in when it happens and you need to keep it away from the stuff you don't want destroyed. Don't worry about the animals, they know all about fire and get out of it's way. A couple of years ago there was an arsonist running around setting fires at game ranches. The proper authorities knew it was the same person because it was always a high fence ranch, it always started at a fence line along a county road, and ---REDACTED---. What, you thought I was going to give away all the details? Anyway, we had just over 100 acres burn when he came our way. We fired up the Kubota and discked some wide fire breaks out in front of where the wind was pushing the fire, then hooked up the water tank and rode behind the fire putting out anything that looked like it might jump our fire line. It took a little over a day to burn down to the point we didn't need to sit watch on it.

Side note: You know you're country when the sheriff swings by at 0300, and the guy driving a tractor around in the dark with a water hose and a rifle isn't the problem.

twofifty said:
Am also curious as to what is happening to the creek in the No Man's Land between the N. and S. sections. Are you able or allowed to divert some of the heavy rains into dugouts or cisterns? What pressures (hogs? coyote?) from adjoining ranches is that riparian zone subject to?

We've never looked into the legalities of diverting water from the creek as it really wouldn't be worth it. When the rains are heavy, the creek is six feet of rampaging that tears down fences and destroys everything in it's path. When the rains aren't heavy, you can walk large portions of the creek without stepping in water. We might be able to rig something that would divert water when the creek is up, but it would probably be just as likely to collect all the debris, flotsam and logs that seem to plug up all the culverts and low bridges elsewhere along the creek. The county actually employees a guy whose full time job is to crawl into all those culverts and chainsaw out all that garbage. I really don't want that guys job.

We know that hogs run up and down the creeks like a miniature pork expressway as they move from spot to spot. We know that there are deer in that area also but they haven't had the benefits of the good life on our ranch, so they are generally smaller in body and rack than what live on the ranch. We have a tripod stand set up in there that the family uses from time to time.

Johnny_B_Goode said:
There is plenty of magazines and books out now.

Absolutely true. We are certainly not the pioneers of what we do. Almost all of our success with deer is due to following the work of those that came before us, especially the work of Dr. James Kroll.
 
Raising cattle and making a profit in most of Texas west of I35, will overgraze most ranches. It takes years to get it back to what it was.

My dad used to keep about 25 head in Van Zandt county, but he had a good coastal patch for hay, and the rest of the pasture kept them the rest of the year. And, east of I35 gets more rainfall generally. Although with the drouth we are currently in, I don't know how ranchers make it. Hence high trespass fees.
 
Raising cattle and making a profit in most of Texas west of I35, will overgraze most ranches. It takes years to get it back to what it was.

My dad used to keep about 25 head in Van Zandt county, but he had a good coastal patch for hay, and the rest of the pasture kept them the rest of the year. And, east of I35 gets more rainfall generally. Although with the drouth we are currently in, I don't know how ranchers make it. Hence high trespass fees.
Here in NC once you overgraze a pasture annual bluegrass takes over. Annual bluegrass makes everything look green but it seldom produces enough grass to graze. Yes, annual bluegrass draws deer but deer just nibble tender grass. A full grown cow needs to chomp down on 20 lb of grass every day and that is supplemented with liquid feed. When I could buy fertilizer for $200 a ton a could afford to keep the grass growing. Now it is hog sludge and an 18 wheeler load of herbicide. To get the hog sludge you have to sign a contract to take so much a year. They pump the lagoon out all at once. You have to lease a pasture and move all your cattle because the hog farm is not going to work slow enough to just move your cows around.

No one who is farming in this area is leasing land to hunters. Leasing to hunters never works out. After hunting season you still have herds of deer eating your crops. You call the game warden to document the crop damage. A biologist comes out and writes a kill permit for 400 deer. A local golf course gets a cull permit for 300 deer. There is a huge game land adjoining the golf course. The public hunting area has a one week doe season. The NCG&F commission would rather see deer rotting than a hunter get to kill a deer. I attend the meetings when they set the seasons. I bring up we need to extend the doe season on public land. The same biologist that writes the cull permits says evidence does not support that. I have walk out of the meeting so I don't say something I would regret.
 
It's been a while since I checked in here. Nothing much happens on the ranch during off season... especially with all the rain Texas has had this year. Our feed cost has pretty much bottomed out. Deer aren't coming to the feeders even if we filled them with crack. Too much natural growth right now. The stock tanks are full for the first time in as long as I can remember so the water trailer hasn't moved in a while.

We did get a new appreciation for the power of water. Where the fences cross the creek we built water gaps by driving three inch steel pipes several feet into the creek bed, the putting hinged fence panels on them. Tie the panels shut in the center with one twist of wire and any high water will pop them open. That way after a heavy rain you just go into the creek and tie the panels shut again. This time the three inch pipes were snapped clean off and carried away. Let me tell you, you've never had fun until you've spent a couple of days in waist deep water chainsawing debris. We had hip waders with snake gaiters over them. Not because we thought there were any snakes left in the creek, but because all of the sunken barb wire fences, logs, metal pipes and everything else hidden in the muddy water.
 
Just read this thread. Thank you for sharing this information. Your best picture has disappeared, would you mind posting another one? I just like big racks!
 
Many thanks for this post. I do have a couple of questions below.

1. I live in CA and have a hunting license. How difficult is it to get a hunting license in Texas if you want to hunt on a ranch?

2. What are some of the things that good guests do that are appreciated?
 
Your best picture has disappeared, would you mind posting another one? I just like big racks!

Same picture, now with more trustworthy hosting:

10156174_715987745120976_4100891113793237285_n_zpsysxxsony.jpg

Sheepdog1968 said:
1. I live in CA and have a hunting license. How difficult is it to get a hunting license in Texas if you want to hunt on a ranch?

You can pick up a Texas non-resident hunting license at any Wal-mart. You can get a one time deferral for the hunter education requirement if you are accompanied while hunting (guides count)

Sheepdog1968 said:
2. What are some of the things that good guests do that are appreciated?

Tip your guide. ;)

Just kidding.

Maybe.

:D

Okay, serious time. The guests we like the best are the ones that really truly enjoy hunting. Don't get me wrong, we really appreciate it when a rich guy comes down, sends a bunch of text messages and emails from the stand, shoots his animal then gets in his car and leaves everything to us while he goes back to the airport... but what we really like are the people who are truly excited to be hunting. The ones that jump up and down and hug people when they get an animal.

We had a family last year, a mother and two daughters, who wanted to do stalking hunts of rams. Real tough hunts. The animals didn't want to cooperate and found the worst terrain on the ranch to get into, and by god they weren't coming out of there for anybody. It was a week of the hardest hunting I've ever done on the ranch. But they were so into hunting and so excited and happy to be doing it that it made everything worth it. Everyone agrees, that was the best group of the season.

So really, that's what we appreciate most in guests... Although, one year we did have a certain son of the Man in Black play a few tunes for us one night in the lodge, and that was mighty appreciated
 
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