I have an AR side charging upper that doesn't get much use so I disconnected the gas tube and flipped the gas block around to make it a bolt action 223. Very easy to do. Works as expected as long as the charging handle is used with a little gusto. Keeps the brass right at my feet and slows things down a bit. For the small amount of effort it made this into another interesting upper.
Running without gas
- Thread starter kidneyboy
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citizenconn
Member
I've been doing something similar for a few years. Eventually I started putting adjustable gas blocks on my side charging uppers so I could turn the gas off or on depending on what I was using it for. I save and reload my brass and it is much easier to adjust the gas so I don't have to chase the brass all around the range.
Varminterror
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I really like clicking my selector on my column to manually shift my automatic transmission pickup too. Blah.
It has never made sense to me to hobble an AR into manual action. Relatively, it’s an expensive, inaccurate bolt action with a poor trigger. Blah. Not much sense to me, there.
It has never made sense to me to hobble an AR into manual action. Relatively, it’s an expensive, inaccurate bolt action with a poor trigger. Blah. Not much sense to me, there.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
Just run cast data loads in it. It won't cycle and you can still use it a straight pull bolt. I do that sometimes with my mini 14.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
I have a Ruger No 1 for that application.
A matter of perspective. A spare, less than $250, upper that shoots 1.25" 100yard groups gets a no cost, reversible, change that makes it a bit more fun. Makes sense to me.
MachIVshooter
Member
While I don't convert ARs to manual action myself, inaccurate and poor trigger are two descriptions I don't associate with the AR platform. Plenty of sub and even half MOA rifles out there, and lots of great trigger options. I have Hyperfires and Black Rains myself, which are better than the OEM trigger in any bolt gun I've ever found that was competitive price-wise. I have two ARs that are built as varmint/target guns, a 22" .223 Wylde bull barrel and an 18" .308 with an HBAR contour. Neither build cost more than a 700 BDL, Tikka T3 or Win M70, and both shoot just as well, in fact better than many. The 5.56 gun runs .84 MOA 10 shot groups with 50 gr. V-Max @ 100 yards.
On that note, I absolutely use the manual mode for the Aisin 6 speed auto in my Ram 5500. Also use the column shifter quite frequently in my other vehicles for engine braking, or later upshifts without flooring it.
Varminterror
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A great AR trigger still isn’t a good trigger among bolt action triggers.
“Accurate enough,” (or rather “precise”) isn’t a measure of absolute accuracy. It’s just grandstanding to pretend AR’s can hang with bolt guns - because they do not and cannot, in any format which actually challenges precision.
“Accurate enough,” (or rather “precise”) isn’t a measure of absolute accuracy. It’s just grandstanding to pretend AR’s can hang with bolt guns - because they do not and cannot, in any format which actually challenges precision.
MachIVshooter
Member
Let's compare apples to apples, though.
In calling the AR "expensive", you create a category that precludes high end custom bolt actions. The reality is that unless you are capable of doing the custom work yourself, you're going to spend a small fortune on parts and service to have a bolt rifle capable of the kind of "absolute accuracy" you seem to be using as a metric. I've never found a production bolt gun that would do better than .65 MOA even with an aftermarket trigger and bolt lapping, running neck sized handloads.
Yes, I can true a Rem 700 action, fit a premium heavy profile barrel to it and put it in a chassis or piller & glass bedded custom stock and outshoot an AR. But the chassis alone costs more than most complete ARs, and even getting that, the trigger and the profiled barrel blank on sale and being able to do the work, I'll still have spent the better part of 2 grand. Add a Surgeon, Curtis or Defiance action, a premium trigger, bottom metal and paying someone else to put it together, now you have a five thousand dollar rifle. It's a whole different league. Those premium actions by themselves cost more than I spent on either of my aforementioned AR builds.
To use your automobile transmission analogy, it's like saying an auto trans Camaro SS or Challenger R/T run as a manual can't hang with a true M/T car, but neglecting to mention that your basis for comparison is a purpose-built $200k Viper ACR.
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courtgreene
Member
This thread did get me thinking... perhaps the reason I have two semi-automatic rifles, vs seven bolts and two levers is because I hate an automatic transmission. I have three manuals and one automatic. I only have that because Mrs. Courtgreene will not learn to drive using the proper, three pedal, technique. I love THR.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I been planing on doing a group test. Between my mini 14,ar 15 and my savage axis 223. The axis has the Mc-carbo kit in.
Varminterror
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This imagined proposition above just isn’t real.
There’s no burden to rebarrel and spend extreme amounts to achieve greater precision from a bolt gun than an AR. Dollar for dollar, $700 or $4000, the gas gun falls short on precision behind a bolt gun.
If you’re not finding production bolt guns which can shoot smaller than equivalently priced AR’s, then you have **** for luck finding bolt guns, and better luck buying AR’s than most lottery winners.
Lots of guys have been down the “straight pull” AR road, so there’s obviously a niche where it’s of interest, but it’s really quite simple, less accuracy and worse triggers, let alone poorer driving experience in any and every position. But Americans love AR’s, so cutting off our nose to spite our face makes sense for some folks.
There’s no burden to rebarrel and spend extreme amounts to achieve greater precision from a bolt gun than an AR. Dollar for dollar, $700 or $4000, the gas gun falls short on precision behind a bolt gun.
If you’re not finding production bolt guns which can shoot smaller than equivalently priced AR’s, then you have **** for luck finding bolt guns, and better luck buying AR’s than most lottery winners.
Lots of guys have been down the “straight pull” AR road, so there’s obviously a niche where it’s of interest, but it’s really quite simple, less accuracy and worse triggers, let alone poorer driving experience in any and every position. But Americans love AR’s, so cutting off our nose to spite our face makes sense for some folks.
Random 8
Member
Personally I would love a purpose built new manual transmission pickup, AND I would love a purpose built, inexpensive straight pull AR based upper in various 5.56 mag compatable calibers, with an actual camming mechanism built into the straight pull.
Good enough accuracy is good enough for me in most cases in terms of close hunting or plinking guns, I love straight pulls, and I can't afford a switch barrel Blaser. A slide action based on an AR upper would be fun also.
Good enough accuracy is good enough for me in most cases in terms of close hunting or plinking guns, I love straight pulls, and I can't afford a switch barrel Blaser. A slide action based on an AR upper would be fun also.
citizenconn
Member
How much did that kit improve the trigger/reduce the trigger pull on the Axis for you? I have a .222 Rem (not .223) chambered Axis I bought a few months ago that I'm putting into a chassis as a target gun and the trigger pull is very heavy. I've been planning to try the McCarbo kit for the trigger but except for a couple of youtube videos haven't gotten any feedback from anyone who has installed one. I am torn between trying the kit and just getting a better target trigger if I can find one.
My .222 Rem Walking Varminter with the Accutrigger is a very fine shooter indeed.
An aside: the .222 Rem is such an accurate cartridge for me and was a accuracy record holder for something like 40 years. It's a shame its fallen out of favor here in the US with the rise of the .223/5.56 because its hard to find newer rifles chambered for it. I think it is still holding on (barely) outside of the US where the public can't purchase NATO chambered rifles.
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troy fairweather
Member
In restrictive states doing this maybe one of the few ways to shoot your rifles with all its features just manually. Others states it's your gun do what you want.
roval
Member
i sometimes do it on my M1A so i dont have to go looking for the brass.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
It bought down from 5lbs to 3.5 lbs.
courtgreene
Member
I also have the Mcarbo kit in a savage axis .223. It brought mine down just the same, and is well worth it. While you are at it, the stock stiffening kit (just wedges and glue) also help the rifle immensely. It took me about eight minutes to do both.
I love my AR’s for what they are. It is silly to compare their triggers to good bolt rifle triggers.
There straight back stocks which necessitate the high above bore sights are also uncomfortable compared to the drop stock of a bolt rifle. The semi auto part is nice if you have large groups of pigs. I would only hunt with one if it was my only rifle and I build them and have them in almost all calibers.
There straight back stocks which necessitate the high above bore sights are also uncomfortable compared to the drop stock of a bolt rifle. The semi auto part is nice if you have large groups of pigs. I would only hunt with one if it was my only rifle and I build them and have them in almost all calibers.
