I just got a Nagant revolver. Seeing how expensive the Nagant ammo is, has anyone shot .32 H&R mags out of their pistol? I have heard is fine but wanted to know what the results were before I tried such a thing. From what I hear, any .32 rimmed ammo will work fine in this gun.
Russian Nagant relover, any try .32 mags?
- Thread starter albanian
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ribbonstone
Member
"fine" may be too generous a term. Rimmed .32cal ammo will generally fire and most are low enough pressure that the case swelling isn't a giant problem. the .32HRM has had brass quality problems in the past...given good lots of cases, will just swell a bit. .32HRM runs a good bit hotter than the .32SWL, also a good bit higher pressure than Nagant ammo, but it seems these old revolvers take it in stride. Main worry is that the case will split and spit some gas and brass bits back towards you (or out of the sides of the rear of the cylinder).
One of the problems with accuracy with the Nagant is that the end of the cylinder is reamed to take a bullet with a case warpped around it...so the end of the cylinder is something like .336-.338" in diameter. Without the full length case, the bullet has to cross this .338" hole before finding rifling...expecting it to dive stright down that hole is kind of optimistic. They usually shoot pretty well even with that "glitch".
Will amso notice taht the gas seal system is case-dependent. Wihtout that brass case crossing over into the barrel breech, will find the same kind of barrel/cylinder flash that other revovlers have.
One of the problems with accuracy with the Nagant is that the end of the cylinder is reamed to take a bullet with a case warpped around it...so the end of the cylinder is something like .336-.338" in diameter. Without the full length case, the bullet has to cross this .338" hole before finding rifling...expecting it to dive stright down that hole is kind of optimistic. They usually shoot pretty well even with that "glitch".
Will amso notice taht the gas seal system is case-dependent. Wihtout that brass case crossing over into the barrel breech, will find the same kind of barrel/cylinder flash that other revovlers have.
RON in PA
Member
I've shot both 32 long and 32 magnum ammo in my Nagants. The cases swell, but that's it. Accuracy has been acceptable, offhand 1" groups at 7 yards.
gunfan
Member
I wonder...
I wonder if you could obtain a cylinder blank (or have one manufactured) for the Nagant and have it reamed specifically for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge? If so, it seems as if it would likely be safe for carry and field use.
Any opinions?
ribbonstone said:
I wonder if you could obtain a cylinder blank (or have one manufactured) for the Nagant and have it reamed specifically for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge? If so, it seems as if it would likely be safe for carry and field use.
Any opinions?
MCgunner
Member
gunfan said:
Could possibly the chambers in the stock cylinder be shimmed somehow? I'd think building a cylinder would be awful costly. Might be able to buy a SP101 in the caliber for what that would cost.
One of the companys that sold the Nagants used to sell a spare .32acp cylinder for about $40. I haven't seen them for sale lately. I figure if .32mags will work, there is no reason to spend the extra cash for the .32acp wheel since I don't plan on shooting it enough to make it pay. .32acp is not that much cheaper than .32 mag so I would have to shoot a lot to make the cylinder cost effective. .32 mag is more power anyway.
saberstitch
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Century Arms used to have the .32 acp cylinders. I am not sure if they have them anymore. If you keep your eyes open, you will find them from time to time. Having said that, most people don't buy them. Those that have often times have mixed reviews. If seems some revolvers like the new cylinders and some don't function well at all with them. Probably not worth the money.
I prefer 32 longs myself. They shoot fairly accurate and don't seem to swell as much as the magnums (easier extraction).
I prefer 32 longs myself. They shoot fairly accurate and don't seem to swell as much as the magnums (easier extraction).
ribbonstone
Member
Going to post this here, but it belongs in reloading.
Am lucky enough to have a lathe...without one, are pretty well screwed for making Nagant brass.
1. Size .223 as far as you can in a STEEL .30carbine die.
2. CAN'T size the solid head, so you'll have to stop at that level, and the resulting cases look a little bit like beleted mag. cases after sizing.
3. LATHE the belt off, but leave the rim. (know the .223 is "rimless" but once you lathed the belt off they become rimmed).
4. Trim to length...remember, you want it LONGER than the cylinder...so set the length to match a fired Nagant case.
5. (consider annealing the cases...not required, but the bress is stressed and the case mouth will split after a couple of reloads if you don't)
Problems? One: The thick .223 cases mean any bublished data should be reduced.
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Those of you with a chronograph and some real full length nagant ammo. Try a simply test. Fire 5 rounds of real ammo and get the vel. average. Now take 5 more rounds and FILE the case mouth back so that it no longer bridges the barrel cylinder gap and fire those. With teh nagant, the gap is worth about 12-14%.
IF you had the deep seated WC Nagant ammo, can trim the case back even farther...so the bullet has to travel through that large diameter cylinder mouth before finding rifling. Will find an additional 5-7% drop in velocity.
Am lucky enough to have a lathe...without one, are pretty well screwed for making Nagant brass.
1. Size .223 as far as you can in a STEEL .30carbine die.
2. CAN'T size the solid head, so you'll have to stop at that level, and the resulting cases look a little bit like beleted mag. cases after sizing.
3. LATHE the belt off, but leave the rim. (know the .223 is "rimless" but once you lathed the belt off they become rimmed).
4. Trim to length...remember, you want it LONGER than the cylinder...so set the length to match a fired Nagant case.
5. (consider annealing the cases...not required, but the bress is stressed and the case mouth will split after a couple of reloads if you don't)
Problems? One: The thick .223 cases mean any bublished data should be reduced.
-------
Those of you with a chronograph and some real full length nagant ammo. Try a simply test. Fire 5 rounds of real ammo and get the vel. average. Now take 5 more rounds and FILE the case mouth back so that it no longer bridges the barrel cylinder gap and fire those. With teh nagant, the gap is worth about 12-14%.
IF you had the deep seated WC Nagant ammo, can trim the case back even farther...so the bullet has to travel through that large diameter cylinder mouth before finding rifling. Will find an additional 5-7% drop in velocity.
Stainz
Member
Ribbonstone is correct re the cylinder exits leaving an enlarged gap. If the round is slightly skewed, which either a .32 S&WL or H&RM will be, their bullets will shave minute bits of lead or copper cladding. The former gunks up the inverted forcing cone/cylinder exit depressions (Check said parts for leading after some lead .32 S&WL's!), while latter will 'spit' at your arms & face (Wear safety glasses!). Also, the softer S&WL cases, particularly the MagTech's, will bulge and even split - about a third of mine did so. The tougher H&RM cases operate at a greater pressure, thus their resultant spitting of powder/copper and bulging. None of these spent cases are reloadable. The 7.62x38r Russian target round tapers from .357" to .328" diameter in the shorter length of the constant .333" diameter H&RM round. Simply stated, the smaller straight wall case's .32 bullets are canted - starting their travels not exactly coaxial to the bore... not a good thing.
The proper Ruskie ammo is slightly larger than the Fiocchi ammo, which is a tad hotter. I chrono-ed 590 fps from the Russian target ammo; 620 fps from MagTech 98gr LRN .32 S&WL; and 674 fps from the Fiocchi 7.62x38r 98gr FMJ ammo. I didn't chrono the 100gr Georgia Arms .32 H&R Magnum JHP ammo - but it was 'hot' - and spit to the point I deemed it unsafe. The results are the averages of two Nagants. A final choice, my homebrews, was more serviceable to me - 670-850 fps for 100gr Meister LDEWC & 83gr Berry's DEWC in modified .32-20 cases over 2.4-3.0 gr Titegroup.
The 'proper' ammo's case ends flare to seal inside the inverted forcing cone, effectively finishing the sealing of the b/c gap closed by the cylinder's forward travel. This requires extra effort to extract the spent cases - like those .32 caliber once-straight walled spent cases - thus the need for a SA style extractor rod. This leaves a weakened and thin opening, not conducive to successful reloading. Starline now makes a shortened version of the 7.62x38r brass case - it doesn't gas seal by bridging the gap - or have a thin and weakened case opening, either. The Lee Nagant die set can be used with the Starline brass - with a proper seating rod. I chose another route... reshaping .32-20 cases with a Lee carbide (no lube...) M1 Carbine die (.349" - .333") and loading them with .32-20 seat dies in my Dillon 550B. I had to modify the cases first - taking .024" off the rim OD with a Taig micro lathe and ~ .010" was sanded off the headstamp. These two mods could be avoided by modifying the cylinder slightly and thinning the breech block - but I wanted the revolvers left as they were, making the ammo fit them. My spent rounds generally fall out... at most requiring a finger nail, but not the ejector rod. some leading occurs with lead bullets, but not like those MagTech .32 S&WL LRN's. Fun shooter...
Stainz
PS I bought 200 of those GA Arms .32 H&RM's... I used 7 in each of two Nagants - I still have 186 left - but no more for my Nagants!
The proper Ruskie ammo is slightly larger than the Fiocchi ammo, which is a tad hotter. I chrono-ed 590 fps from the Russian target ammo; 620 fps from MagTech 98gr LRN .32 S&WL; and 674 fps from the Fiocchi 7.62x38r 98gr FMJ ammo. I didn't chrono the 100gr Georgia Arms .32 H&R Magnum JHP ammo - but it was 'hot' - and spit to the point I deemed it unsafe. The results are the averages of two Nagants. A final choice, my homebrews, was more serviceable to me - 670-850 fps for 100gr Meister LDEWC & 83gr Berry's DEWC in modified .32-20 cases over 2.4-3.0 gr Titegroup.
The 'proper' ammo's case ends flare to seal inside the inverted forcing cone, effectively finishing the sealing of the b/c gap closed by the cylinder's forward travel. This requires extra effort to extract the spent cases - like those .32 caliber once-straight walled spent cases - thus the need for a SA style extractor rod. This leaves a weakened and thin opening, not conducive to successful reloading. Starline now makes a shortened version of the 7.62x38r brass case - it doesn't gas seal by bridging the gap - or have a thin and weakened case opening, either. The Lee Nagant die set can be used with the Starline brass - with a proper seating rod. I chose another route... reshaping .32-20 cases with a Lee carbide (no lube...) M1 Carbine die (.349" - .333") and loading them with .32-20 seat dies in my Dillon 550B. I had to modify the cases first - taking .024" off the rim OD with a Taig micro lathe and ~ .010" was sanded off the headstamp. These two mods could be avoided by modifying the cylinder slightly and thinning the breech block - but I wanted the revolvers left as they were, making the ammo fit them. My spent rounds generally fall out... at most requiring a finger nail, but not the ejector rod. some leading occurs with lead bullets, but not like those MagTech .32 S&WL LRN's. Fun shooter...
Stainz
PS I bought 200 of those GA Arms .32 H&RM's... I used 7 in each of two Nagants - I still have 186 left - but no more for my Nagants!
jjohnson
Member
Reloading Nagant Revolver - Fireforming Question
Hm... let's see here... just thinking out loud, since I have one of those *ugly* revolvers too and hate the price on real Nagant ammo.
Would it work if you were to use 32 mag ammo and 'fireform' them in the revolver and then use a stock 7.62 die set to reload them? Or even 32-20? I know either would blow out to the dimensions of the chambers, and since the idea is to shoot them in the Nagant anyway, wouldn't you want to use Nagant dies to reload the now 'out of 32 mag spec' cases? I'm looking for a cheap solution here, too. If anybody's doing this, or knows why it wouldn't work, I'd appreciate knowing. I DO reload conservatively, so I'm not looking at high pressures and velocities - just looking for a cheap way to plink with the arguably ugliest revolver on the planet. Thanks!
Hm... let's see here... just thinking out loud, since I have one of those *ugly* revolvers too and hate the price on real Nagant ammo.
Would it work if you were to use 32 mag ammo and 'fireform' them in the revolver and then use a stock 7.62 die set to reload them? Or even 32-20? I know either would blow out to the dimensions of the chambers, and since the idea is to shoot them in the Nagant anyway, wouldn't you want to use Nagant dies to reload the now 'out of 32 mag spec' cases? I'm looking for a cheap solution here, too. If anybody's doing this, or knows why it wouldn't work, I'd appreciate knowing. I DO reload conservatively, so I'm not looking at high pressures and velocities - just looking for a cheap way to plink with the arguably ugliest revolver on the planet. Thanks!
Stainz
Member
Great theory - except that it won't quite work, as at least for the GA Arms 100gr .32 H&RM ammo, the case bulges just ahead of the rim - maybe 1/3 the way up - and not symmetrically - remember, the Nagant chambers are slightly tapered, a la the M1 Carbine. The Magtech .32 S&WL's occasionally split, too.
I chrono-ed those rounds in a 'proper' .32 Mag - the Ruger BHG SS Single Six I recently bought. The Magtech's are fine, but only make 644 +/-22 fps, while the GA Arms H&RM's made 1,117 +/-17 fps - and bulged in the Ruger! They were also, as in the Nagants, excessively nasty - rendering the ejector of the SSM fouled after one cylinderful. While the .334" OD Magtech ammo cases did not appreciably swell during use, the somewhat smaller Starline .32 H&RM cases swelled from 0.333-.334" initially to the chamber's 0.337" ID - generally in the same spot as from the Nagant chambers, just not so much. Good safety glasses are a must here, it spits nearly like the Nagants with that ammo. While the S&WL's fell out, the GA Arms .32 H&RM's needed help - and, recall that the SA ejector rod was useless after the first cylinderful. Perhaps the Starline .32M brass was sized a bit small - hopefully, by GA Arms, rather than Starline. It's easy to re-size brass a bit smaller in OD... the reverse, is a problem! I love everything else I have ever bought from GA Arms, but these rounds are gorrid, IMHO.
I still feel that the .32-20 cases and the Lee Nagant dies, with 100gr LDEWC or 83gr DEWC's, makes the most sense - if you have to reload. We need a realistically priced Fiocchi ammo equivalent...
Stainz
PS I pulled apart several of the Magtechs and GA Arms rounds to find 2.3gr of a sphere-like propellant in the former, and a whopping 8.7gr of a fine dark grey dust-like mess in the latter... that's a lot of powder!
I chrono-ed those rounds in a 'proper' .32 Mag - the Ruger BHG SS Single Six I recently bought. The Magtech's are fine, but only make 644 +/-22 fps, while the GA Arms H&RM's made 1,117 +/-17 fps - and bulged in the Ruger! They were also, as in the Nagants, excessively nasty - rendering the ejector of the SSM fouled after one cylinderful. While the .334" OD Magtech ammo cases did not appreciably swell during use, the somewhat smaller Starline .32 H&RM cases swelled from 0.333-.334" initially to the chamber's 0.337" ID - generally in the same spot as from the Nagant chambers, just not so much. Good safety glasses are a must here, it spits nearly like the Nagants with that ammo. While the S&WL's fell out, the GA Arms .32 H&RM's needed help - and, recall that the SA ejector rod was useless after the first cylinderful. Perhaps the Starline .32M brass was sized a bit small - hopefully, by GA Arms, rather than Starline. It's easy to re-size brass a bit smaller in OD... the reverse, is a problem! I love everything else I have ever bought from GA Arms, but these rounds are gorrid, IMHO.
I still feel that the .32-20 cases and the Lee Nagant dies, with 100gr LDEWC or 83gr DEWC's, makes the most sense - if you have to reload. We need a realistically priced Fiocchi ammo equivalent...
Stainz
PS I pulled apart several of the Magtechs and GA Arms rounds to find 2.3gr of a sphere-like propellant in the former, and a whopping 8.7gr of a fine dark grey dust-like mess in the latter... that's a lot of powder!
confed sailor
Member
when im not using starlines brass, i shoot magtech 32 s&w longs, i get about one split case every fifty. the round nose lead bullets spit abit, but federal 32 mags, with jacketed bullets do very well.
only complaint with starline brass, they dont give any gas-seal effects as they are made chamber length. they decided that the split necks were not worth it.
only complaint with starline brass, they dont give any gas-seal effects as they are made chamber length. they decided that the split necks were not worth it.
Crosshair
Member
I have a 32 ACP cylinder for the Nagant revolver. My gun is backordered though so I am stuck waiting.
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