S&B Primers in S&B .38 Special brass

[DanK3Pos]

A while back I ended up with a lot of S&B .38 Special brass. Loading it, I found the primer pockets tight and it was a bit scary seating the primers. They were not crimped pockets (why would anyone do that with 38Spc?). I tried reaming out the pockets anyway. Didn't make a difference. I set the brass aside. I had plenty of other brand brass that loaded just fine, so I didn't need it. BTW, I've reloaded a ton of S&B 9mm and don't have the same problem.

At a later point, during normal times when primers were readily available, I happened upon some S&B primers, so I picked up a few boxes, thinking that this would be a possible solution for my S&B brass issue.

The time has come to use those primers on that .38 Special brass. First thing I noticed is that the S&B primers are randomly oriented in the packaging (as many right-side-up as wrong-side-up). Darn. The other thing I noticed is that the shoulder is noticeably squared off compared to other manufacturers' primers. In some applications, this may give the appearance of a flattened primer, but flattened primers shouldn't be an issue with regular .38 Special loads and I don't plan on loading them hot.

Finally, upon loading my primer tubes I found that the tubes are noticeably less full than with other brand primers. There are definitely 100 primers in that tube, so that indicates that the S&B primers are physically shorter than other brands. Maybe that explains my seating issue with other brand primers in the S&B .38 Special brass? We will see. I'll post back up after loading a few hundred.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Finally, upon loading my primer tubes I found that the tubes are noticeably less full than with other brand primers.

Would you caliper one of the S&Bs and one of the other brands you have and let us know what the difference in height is?
I think the dia is the same or within .0005". Mic the primer pocket also to see what the interference fit is. S&Bs are always notoriously tight.
But they shouldn't be that tight.

 

[edwardware]

Tolerance stacking is a thing that exists, and you're experiencing it. Pocket's certainly vary between manufacturers, and I have found that S&B are fairly tight.

Bear in mind that the unseated height of a primer doesn't matter; when seated the anvil is pushed down flush with the cup, and the cup height is what matters.

I have also been entirely unable to detonate a primer without a high energy strike. You can seat it, and crush it flat, left, right, sideways, upside down, and inside out, and it won't go off. Provided you aren't seating with a hammer and a punch, there's no need to be scared. Chamfer the pockets enough to start the primer evenly, and shove it in there.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

That brass sounds like a candidate for a Super Swage.

 

[Walkalong]

Send it to me, I promise to love it and take care of it.

 

[pairof44sp]

A while back I ended up with a lot of S&B .38 Special brass. Loading it, I found the primer pockets tight and it was a bit scary seating the primers. They were not crimped pockets (why would anyone do that with 38Spc?). I tried reaming out the pockets anyway. Didn't make a difference. I set the brass aside. I had plenty of other brand brass that loaded just fine, so I didn't need it. BTW, I've reloaded a ton of S&B 9mm and don't have the same problem.

At a later point, during normal times when primers were readily available, I happened upon some S&B primers, so I picked up a few boxes, thinking that this would be a possible solution for my S&B brass issue.

The time has come to use those primers on that .38 Special brass. First thing I noticed is that the S&B primers are randomly oriented in the packaging (as many right-side-up as wrong-side-up). Darn. The other thing I noticed is that the shoulder is noticeably squared off compared to other manufacturers' primers. In some applications, this may give the appearance of a flattened primer, but flattened primers shouldn't be an issue with regular .38 Special loads and I don't plan on loading them hot.

Finally, upon loading my primer tubes I found that the tubes are noticeably less full than with other brand primers. There are definitely 100 primers in that tube, so that indicates that the S&B primers are physically shorter than other brands. Maybe that explains my seating issue with other brand primers in the S&B .38 Special brass? We will see. I'll post back up after loading a few hundred.

Elsewhere on this board, I am stuck in an argument about whether SRP and SPP are exactly the same size.

According to the books, they are, but in practice they just don’t seat the same

 

[pairof44sp]

Tolerance stacking is a thing that exists, and you're experiencing it. Pocket's certainly vary between manufacturers, and I have found that S&B are fairly tight.

Bear in mind that the unseated height of a primer doesn't matter; when seated the anvil is pushed down flush with the cup, and the cup height is what matters.

I have also been entirely unable to detonate a primer without a high energy strike. You can seat it, and crush it flat, left, right, sideways, upside down, and inside out, and it won't go off. Provided you aren't seating with a hammer and a punch, there's no need to be scared. Chamfer the pockets enough to start the primer evenly, and shove it in there.

Everyone should start off with a Lee Classic mallet to learn your lesson about how primers dont explode just from looking at them funny

 

[jmorris]

S&B brass is tighter, 45 ACP enough so when loading for machines where I “feel” for primer seating, I culled them when looking for SPP brass. Can’t say I noticed them with 38 spl but I know their 9mm brass cases and brass plated steel cases look identical.

 

[AJC1]

I had some issues priming the same brass. My solution was to use a chamfer tool to ever so lightly knock off the square corner making it easier to get properly aligned. No big deal after.

 

[Walkalong]

Elsewhere on this board, I am stuck in an argument about whether SRP and SPP are exactly the same size.

According to the books, they are, but in practice they just don’t seat the same

No argument, but they are the same height and will seat just as deep if enough pressure is used and the method used is up to the task

 

[EMC45]

My experience with S&B primers is they are a bit tighter and soft. In certain SPP brass I "smoosh" the primer when seating. It will flatten a bit upon seating. I just go slow and careful and they work great. Actually wish I had about 100,000 more of them.

 

[pairof44sp]

My experience with S&B primers is they are a bit tighter and soft. In certain SPP brass I "smoosh" the primer when seating. It will flatten a bit upon seating. I just go slow and careful and they work great. Actually wish I had about 100,000 more of them.

THAT is what’s been happening. I saw something about flattened primers and thought “my primers are always flattened”

It’s the die smooshing them! I’m gonna try backing it out a quarter turn

 

[Jonesy814]

Had some S&B 357 brass with very tight primer pockets too

 

[FROGO207]

Elsewhere on this board, I am stuck in an argument about whether SRP and SPP are exactly the same size.

According to the books, they are, but in practice they just don’t seat the same

The reason the primers seat differently is the cups on the rifle primers are thicker and therefore seat harder when crushed slightly to produce that interferance fit. Looked for that thread but failed to find it.
Sorry about thread drift. Back to topic.

 

[pairof44sp]

The reason the primers seat differently is the cups on the rifle primers are thicker and therefore seat harder when crushed slightly to produce that interferance fit. Looked for that thread but failed to find it.
Sorry about thread drift. Back to topic.

Don’t apologize. You just solved a mystery that had stumped a whole table full of IPSC competitiors and got them arguing with one another

 

[FROGO207]

Sometimes the obvious is overlooked.

 

[Holderofthehorns]

Thicker rifle cups is why we can use SRP in pistols (with strong strikers), but not use SPP in rifles.
There are guys on here that only buy SRP for use in both pistol and rifle.

When the shortage clears, I will buy enough SRP to finish my lifetime and go well into my children's life.
In 2012-2013 I paid $89 for the Remington Gold Top 22lr buckets of 1400. I cried, but bought them. Bunches of them.
My children's children will not need to buy 22lr.
Today, those same 1400 round buckets are $270, or .19 per.

My friends all laughed at me. Called me a hoarder for buying too much while it was plentiful.
Now they see why.

 

[DanK3Pos]

I loaded 12 test rounds yesterday. 4.0gr of W231 with Berry's 148gr DEWC. Damn, I like loading the DEWCs. No problems seating the primers. Every one went 'bang,' of course. Velocities were in the 850fps range out of my 6" 66-2. I would say the S&B primers were the solution for the tight S&B primer pockets.

 

[DanK3Pos]

Would you caliper one of the S&Bs and one of the other brands you have and let us know what the difference in height is?
I think the dia is the same or within .0005". Mic the primer pocket also to see what the interference fit is. S&Bs are always notoriously tight.
But they shouldn't be that tight.

S&B SPP -- .1745 diameter, .1180 height
CCI #550 SPmP -- .1755 diameter, .1195 height
Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) -- .1750 diameter, .1195 height.

The primer pocket on the S&B .38 Special measured ~.1720, versus a random piece of Speer .357 Magnum, which measured ~.1745. I say approximately because that is a more difficult measurement to take with calipers.

One thing that no doubt influenced my subjective experience of tight primer pockets was the fact that I was loading mixed range brass, but I would say the more objective measurements confirm that opinion.

 

[DanK3Pos]

My experience with S&B primers is they are a bit tighter and soft. In certain SPP brass I "smoosh" the primer when seating. It will flatten a bit upon seating. I just go slow and careful and they work great. Actually wish I had about 100,000 more of them.

The S&B primers definitely have a sharper shoulder right out of the box. I took a picture, but it is hard to tell without comparing side by side.

 

[Walkalong]

S&B SPP -- .1745 diameter, .1180 height
CCI #550 SPmP -- .1755 diameter, .1195 height
Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) -- .1750 diameter, .1195 height.

The primer pocket on the S&B .38 Special measured ~.1720, versus a random piece of Speer .357 Magnum, which measured ~.1745. I say approximately because that is a more difficult measurement to take with calipers.

One thing that no doubt influenced my subjective experience of tight primer pockets was the fact that I was loading mixed range brass, but I would say the more objective measurements confirm that opinion.

Remember, when primers are unfired the anvil sticks out of the cup a little bit, when seated the anvil is pushed to the bottom of the cup and even compressed a little. The limiting factor on how deep a primer can seat is the cup.

 

[Encoreman]

Last year I purchased a box of S&B .40 S&W and 10mm JHP's and the primers look a lot wider as in it totally fills the primer pocket side to side. I don't recall ever purchasing any S&B pistol ammo prior to that.

 

[Blue68f100]

S&B SPP -- .1745 diameter, .1180 height
CCI #550 SPmP -- .1755 diameter, .1195 height
Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) -- .1750 diameter, .1195 height.

The primer pocket on the S&B .38 Special measured ~.1720, versus a random piece of Speer .357 Magnum, which measured ~.1745. I say approximately because that is a more difficult measurement to take with calipers.

One thing that no doubt influenced my subjective experience of tight primer pockets was the fact that I was loading mixed range brass, but I would say the more objective measurements confirm that opinion.

For max use out of your brass start with S&B, then move the Win when the pockets loosen up, then CCI.