S&W 1911 Performance Center opinions please

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

So I've been looking at the S&W 1911 Performance Center models. They have gotten excellent reviews (their value and performance for the price) and to my eyes they look really nice. (http://bit.ly/1zNiweh).
I have a question regarding the 'lightening cuts' that makes them rather distinctive. Based on what Smith says, they are there solely to make the gun lighter and less nose heavy. They are not actual ports so they have nothing to do with gas discharge and muzzle rise reduction.
But my question is whether you think that the lightening cuts would put reliability at risk if the gun was used as a carry gun? To be clear, in my case this is a theoretical question only because carrying a weapon here in CA is generally forbidden. But just as an intellectual and engineering exercise, wouldn't the presence of those cuts allow dirt to enter the space between the slide and barrel and risk a jam or other failure (and wear)? Or am I failing to understand the operation of a 1911?
Thx,
B

 

[owlhoot]

First, those cuts do nothing for the gun. The listed weight of that model is 40 oz. which is standard weight for a full size 1911. If you were in the woods or any muddy or sandy place debris could certainly get inside the gun. That surely could impact reliability.

The Performance Center offers a 1911 without those silly cuts. A friend brought by a newly acquired specimen last week along with his Wilson Custom. (I have a range in the yard.) The PC gun performed really well. I thought the trigger was a little better than the Wilson's trigger. Both guns were very accurate and both reliable for the 200 rounds that we put through them. This is the only Performance Center 1911 that I have shot, but if all of them are as sweet as this one, I think it would be a good choice.

 

[JDR]

I don't see the point of having slide ports in a Gov't length 1911, it's taking weight out of the muzzle of the gun, right where you need the weight to curb muzzle jump. The SW1911 E-Series is unported and a lot cheaper than the PC 1911. I have an earlier model SW1911 and I think they are really accurate and reliable, and I can recommend it.

 

[russianbear]

IMHO the more weight in a full sized 1911 ia a good idea.
I also feel keeping a 1911 as close to just how John M Browning Engineered and Designed it is also important.

 

[AustinTX]

I was impressed with an older PC 1911 I shot, but I don't know how their current guns compare. The PC is a shadow of its former self these days, generally speaking, but perhaps they still do good work on their 1911s. I hope that you can order one without those absurd cuts as someone suggested you could, though. I wouldn't own one that looked like that.

 

[anothernewb]

Some see the front ports as artistic expression. To me. they detract from the gun. but - that's a personal opinion so take it FWIW.

As far as catching dirt and such, perhaps. but consider that the beretta 92 has a huge open section of the slide - and it's been used in the desert for what - 2 decades now? I think that's probably a pretty minor issue. But then again - I've never fired one in the desert so I can't give empirical evidence to the matter either.

 

[bannockburn]

Another "not a big fan" of the slide lightening cuts. Seem kind of tacky to me, like putting a non-functional hood scoop on a car to give it a high performance look.

 

[Ex]

I don't see the point of having slide ports in a Gov't length 1911, it's taking weight out of the muzzle of the gun, right where you need the weight to curb muzzle jump.

My thoughts exactly.
I would want to maintain that weight up there to help bring the muzzle back down for faster targer re-acquisition.

 

[mgmorden]

Slide cuts are used on a lot of competition guns. The recoil is greatly influenced by the slide reciprocating back and forth. By lightening the slide you reduce the reciprocating mass and reduce felt recoil.

To me, they're overkill on a carry gun, but a LOT of competition shooters who shoot fast run them.

 

[Drail]

Don't waste your hard earned money on the S&W Performance Center products. It's just a marketing scam now. If you want a fine S&W revolver buy a vintage one and send to a real smith.

 

[anothernewb]

Don't waste your hard earned money on the S&W Performance Center products. It's just a marketing scam now. If you want a fine S&W revolver buy a vintage one and send to a real smith.

with the caveat that a vintage one probably Doesn't need to be sent to a smith.

 

[browningguy]

Well, a 1911 isn't a revolver. But besides that I think the way the PC 1911 is priced now it's a bargain. The lightening cuts won't hurt it, and it will almost certainly be very accurate. I'm a fan of their 1911's in general, I've had a bobtail SC model for a couple of years now and like everything about it.

I know things were always better back in the day, except they weren't, and I was there. They did some excellent polishing and blueing way back when, but you can still get that, you just have to be willing to pay for it.

 

[JDR]

If you want a fine S&W revolver buy a vintage one and send to a real smith.

Like I said earlier I have a 6" 617 on backorder with S&W for 3 months plus and I'm not letting the LGS off the hook until I get my gun! I saw a 17 in near NIB condition for about $250.00 more than what I agreed to for the new gun. I want a shooter not something that looks like it belongs in a Cabela's Gun Library!

 

[Rule3]

If you want to stay with SW for a 1911 look at the E series without the cuts if those bother you. They certainly make a lot of models, Regular, Enhanced, Pro and PC. I have a regular (non E) with target sights and it runs just fine.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_770151_-1_757752_757751_image

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

Thanks folks.
My takeaway from the comments so far is that:
The S&W PC 1911's are a quality product and they seem to be a good product for the price.
The lightening cuts are definitely a controversial design. And I agree. I happen to like them but there is certainly no consensus. None needed. I have a lot of respect for the late Mr. Browning and suspect that in any form, he'd be very happy that his design persists for more than 100 years.
The cuts may affect the weight and balance but its not clear. Either the weight is unchanged, it is altered as many target shooters prefer, or it is altered in a way that negatively affects balance. From the comments, I don't think there is an actual 'answer' here. Lightening (taking weight out of) the slide is a good thing from a reciprocating mass perspective. But any weight reduction will make the gun a bit snappier (accepting that a slow moving (slow accelerating) round will influence the recoil less than a hotter round). I'd bet that for most shooters the effect of the cuts is not positive, but are likely positive for a top-level shooter who can easily handle recoil and cares more about slide cycle time.
But to the question of whether it will affect reliability if carried, there is speculation that it would although the Baretta analogy is a good one.
As I suspected, there is no obvious answer (other than a 1911 is not a revolver!).
More comments welcomed.
B

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

I agree and put my money where my mouth is. In particular a Scandium commander-size round butt all black model. I suspect that in the hand of an outstanding shooter it might give up a few features to the PC models but for the average shooter it is reasonably equivalent to a PC and doesn't have the 'cuts'.
B

 

[TheFineLine]

I also put my money where my mouth is. Here's my little review from the other day on a different forum.

Hanging out with my youngest today. Its a Smith & Wesson Performance Center 1911 Round Butt with a Scandium Frame. It is brand new. I took it to the range yesterday and put 200 mixed rounds through it. It cycled them all without a hiccup. Coming in at 27.4 oz empty, 29.6 oz with empty mag inserted (.3 ounces heavier than a Glock 21) recoil is mildly snappy yet quite manageable.

There is no play on the slide, it is tight and very smooth. The fish scale slide cuts are quite effective. They are not too sharp when hand cycling and don't catch at all when you slide your hand forward. The round butt sits very nicely in my grip. I had carpal tunnel surgery last year and I have to say it is great not having the edge dig into the ligament in my palm. The 30 LPI checkering on the frontstrap is a perfect texture. I have a Dan Wesson Valor with 25LPI that will chew up your fingers if they are not already calloused.

Unlike it's little brother in the E-Series which has night sights this one has standard three dot. I think they nixed them to keep the cost down. It shot 2 1/2 inches high at 10 yards. I will be replacing the sights with some TFOs. It has cuts on the top of the slide and on either side of the firing pin stop. Shooting it side by side with the Valor on a cloudless day with the sun overhead I noticed a diminution of glare. It is a nice touch. The ambi-safety has a good angle and actuates positively. The left side is a little wider than the right which looks a little odd but I'm sure serves a purpose.

The trigger and action job on it is fantastic. The trigger pull measured 3.47 lbs. It is every bit as crisp and smooth as the Valor. I don't think it could be improved.The Performance Center knocked it out of the park.

I do have a couple of gripes. The black finish on it is the weakest finish of any gun I've owned. After only 200 rounds the barrel is worn down to the steel in a couple of spots. I expect wearing on a finish as I use my guns but this is just weak. I will eventually have it refinished by Robar with their Roguard finish and get rid of that damn ugly pointless lawyer-ese on the frame. I think the Performance Center should've either skipped the finish or put something else more durable on it.

Lastly the grips. I'm not sold on them. They're a bit over the top. I intended on replacing them almost immediately but my wife really likes them so I'm going to keep them on for a while and see if they grow on me. IDK, we'll see. They feel great. They don't chew up my side like some of the other carry guns I have and I like that so I may just die them darker. The grip screws backed out three times while shooting yesterday. I'll either get some bushings or some locktite to fix that.

I like the lightening cuts on the slide. The barrel is not ported so they serve no other purpose than to lighten the slide and aesthetics. They are very distinctive and I like guns that are a little different than what everyone else has so this fits my tastes. With a new finish, night sights, and new grips I'll be spending another ~$500 on it. It was NIB for $1,299. With the aforementioned exceptions I'm very pleased with this new guy. It will see alot of range and carry time.