S&W 1917

[commygun]

So, consistent with my history of selling a gun, regretting it for 10 or 15 years, and buying the same model again when opportunity knocks, I picked up a 1918-produced S&W 1917 revolver.
It’s getting a bit of bluing love right now, so no photos at this time. I’m curious about something, though.
Judging by the flame cutting present on both this 1917 and the Brazilian contract one I owned previously, they obviously saw a lot of use. Yet they’re two of the tightest revolvers I’ve ever handled. Very close to virtually no cylinder play or end shake. Is there something about this model that accounts for that?

 

[DR505]

Old world craftsmanship.

 

[StrawHat]

(deleted to check something before posting)

Kevin

 

[OFT]

Are you talking about the oval depression in the top strap just above the forcing cone? If that's it then it's fowling cup and not flame cutting.

 

[StrawHat]

(deleted to check something before posting)

Kevin

Okay, I just looked at 4 of my 1917s. Three of them have this fouling cut in them.

This is from a 1917 built in 1918.


This is a Commercial Model from the early 20s.



This is also a Commercial Model but from the 30s. The cup is smaller.



This last image is a 455 New Century from 1914.



So, if this is what you are referencing, perfectly normal for that era.

However, my Brazilian Model does not have that cut. I believe it was a post war version.

The cut was also found on K frames both the 38 S&W Special and the 32 WCF.

Kevin

 

[commygun]

That’s great! Good old THR! Maybe it hasn’t been shot much.
The bluing is too nice on the frame for it not to have been refinished at some point. However the bluing is gone from much of the barrel, possibly from blood, given the pattern and the lightly etched fingerprints. Whatever it was, they must have caught it fairly quickly, as there’s no pitting. That’s OK, though. I won’t hesitate to shoot the snot out of it!

 

[StrawHat]

That’s great! Good old THR! Maybe it hasn’t been shot much.
The bluing is too nice on the frame for it not to have been refinished at some point. However the bluing is gone from much of the barrel, possibly from blood, given the pattern and the lightly etched fingerprints. Whatever it was, they must have caught it fairly quickly, as there’s no pitting. That’s OK, though. I won’t hesitate to shoot the snot out of it!

I am not seeing an image in the op. Where are you finding it?

Kevin

 

[commygun]

Here’s the old boy. Some cold bluing has improved the appearance of the barrel but it’s a work in progress.

 

[StrawHat]

View attachment 1141705

That is the first Model 1917 I have seen with a S&W logo on the sideplate. The military versions had not logo on either side. The Commercial Model had a small logo underneath the cylinder release. As I mentioned, I am not aware of any 45 ACP Model 1917 that has that mark.


But, you mentioned a possible refinish. If it was done by the factory, they would add the stamps that were currently being used. Roy Jinks put a stop to that, but I don’t T recall when he did that.

Kevin

 

[halfmoonclip]

What ever did we do before the 'net and gun boards?!? Really interesting thread; the old time gunmmakers did worry about strange things.
Straw Hat, take a bow!
Which begs the question; why? To deflect gun gas/junk? To leave room for junk accumulating on the topstrap?
Moon

 

[commygun]

That is the first Model 1917 I have seen with a S&W logo on the sideplate. The military versions had not logo on either side. The Commercial Model had a small logo underneath the cylinder release. As I mentioned, I am not aware of any 45 ACP Model 1917 that has that mark

I was wondering about that as well. The revolver has the "U. S. Property" and "Army Model" stampings under the barrel and on the butt. All the stampings are absolutely crisp (especially that crest) which perhaps argues that Straw Hat is correct and it's a S&W refinish.

 

[thirty-eight]

Sideplate screws appear pristine, looks like some case-hardening color remains too. Really nice piece there, commygun.

 

[StrawHat]

What ever did we do before the 'net and gun boards?!? Really interesting thread; the old time gunmmakers did worry about strange things.
Straw Hat, take a bow!
Which begs the question; why? To deflect gun gas/junk? To leave room for junk accumulating on the topstrap?
Moon

The fouling cup was a carryover from blackpowder cartridges. Not sure if the Army requested it or if it was just the way they made the frames.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

I was wondering about that as well. The revolver has the "U. S. Property" and "Army Model" stampings under the barrel and on the butt. All the stampings are absolutely crisp (especially that crest) which perhaps argues that Straw Hat is correct and it's a S&W refinish.

Is there a star or asterisk near the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame?

Kevin

 

[halfmoonclip]

A 1917 started me down "the pistol cartridges in a handgun road". That first one was a Brazilian, but I've since gotten a GI one.
Doubly interesting; my Pap had one in France in 1917. It even made it most of the way home on the troopship. Wonder where it is now.
Moon

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As previously stated, the Fouling Cup, or Black Powder Fouling Cup, was a holdover from Black Powder days. It was meant to be a place Black Powder fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap could accumulate without binding the cylinder. This is the fouling cup on a Model 1917 that shipped in 1918. Notice there is very little Flame Cutting. Flame Cutting leaves a straight line across the underside of the top strap.






At some point, the BP Fouling cup was done away with, but I do not know exactly when.


This is a photo of the 1917 in question. It came with an almost full box of 45ACP ammunition mounted on half moon clips.






Regarding markings on the side plate; the 1917s shipped to Brazil (the Brazilian contract of 1937) featured a Brazilian crest on the side plate.

 

[commygun]

Is there a star or asterisk near the serial number on the bottom of the grip frame?

No, just the “No” underscored and two lines of 3 digits each.

 

[Gordon]

Looks like an early model 2nd type Hand Ejector.

 

[StrawHat]

No, just the “No” underscored and two lines of 3 digits each.

So, like this?




If so, it is a Military Model and must have gone back to the factory for some reason.


Kevin