S&W .38 victory gun

[Raybud]

I have a Colt .38 revolver, Special CTG. The serial # starts with a "V", which I understand to indicate it was a "Victory" gun, manufactured between '42 and '45. The mystery I need solved is the word, "England", stamped on the cylinder. Also not sure what the "CTG" stands for. There is no model #, but I understand it was eventually given the model #10. Sorry, no photos available at this time. NOTE: As SaxonPig surmised, this is a Smith and Wesson, no a Colt.

 

[SaxonPig]

I'm confused. The Victory Model made for Great Britain during WW II was a Smith & Wesson product, not a Colt. Is this what you have? The only Colt revolver with a V prefix that I know of is the Python after 1978.

The S&W K frame Military & Police Model was made in several variations until 1915 when it achieved its final form and continued until 1957 when it was designated the Model 10. The version sold to Great Britain was a 5" barrel in 38 S&W Caliber (not the more common 38 Special). The similar guns made for use in the U.S. during the war usually have 4" barrels and are in the familiar 38 Special caliber.

If your gun is a S&W M&P Model with a V prefix in the serial then it is a Victory Model made 1942-45. If it has a 5" barrel (measure from muzzle to cylinder face) and the barrel says 38 Smith & Wesson then it's one made for export.

CTG stands for cartridge.

 

[Raybud]

Colt, Smith & Wesson....

You're confused because I'm and idiot. Yes, the gun is a Smith and Wesson, not a Colt. It does say, ".38 Special", on the side stamp; from what I've read and from your post that seems to be contradictory to it's having been one of the guns for Great Brittain, yet, it does say, "England", along the back edge of the cylinder. The serial # is V 24###, so I'm thinking it would have been made in late '41 or early '42. Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

 

[Radagast]

A large number of the .38 S&W guns provided to England had the cylinders bored out to accept .38 Special and were reimported into the USA for sale to the civilian market. You may have one of those.

 

[Jim K]

True, but those converted guns were not re-marked, just reamed for .38 Special. But in fact, many S&W surplus and commercial revolvers were sold on the commercial market in England (before their insane government decided gun owners were terrorists and bomb-toting terrorists were nice guys) and had to be proved. Also much of the conversion work mentioned was done in England, mainly by Cogswell & Harrison, of which Sam Cummings of Interarms was the majority stockholder.

The "England" marking would not ordinarily have been put on those guns, though English proof marks would have been.

Jim

 

[SaxonPig]

If the barrel says 38 S&W Special then it's a 38 Special. If the stamp is on the frame it sounds re-stamped after reaming.

Some 38 Special guns were sent to England as they bought (or accepted) whatever they could get but most are 38 S&W which was the British service caliber.

 

[Raybud]

Thanks again y'all. Would shooting .38 shorts be advisable, or just longs and/or specials?

 

[SaxonPig]

You need to shoot the ammunition for which the gun is chambered.

Again, exactly what does it say on the barrel?

 

[BikerNut]

"CTG" was used in place of "Cartridge", i.e. .38 Special Cartridge.

 

[Radagast]

If it is has an unmodified cylinder thne it will not chamber .38 S&W.
It will chamber .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt & .38 Special.
Stick to .38 Special, if you use .38 short or long colt you will end up with a sticky ring of carbon in each of the chambers unless you clean regularly. This can make the longer .38 Specials stick in the chambers.
Anyway, .38 Special will be easier to find and usually cheaper.

 

[Raybud]

Well, since it says .38 special, that's what we'll try. I let you know how it shoots.

 

[Jim K]

The ENGLAND marking was the "Country of Origin" (COO) mark, required of all products imported into the U.S. It can be in the form of the country or "made in" the country. It is not required on products sent out of the country and being brought back.

But, when surplus guns were being imported by the hundreds of tons in the 1950's and 1960's, the guys doing the stamping were not gun experts and they made mistakes. I have seen a Savage-made Rifle No. 4 stamped "ENGLAND" and Canadian Long Branch No. 4's marked "England" or not marked at all.

Part of the GCA '68 revised the marking law and eliminated the COO mark for guns, substituting the current import mark for milsurp guns without importer markings.

Jim