Apparently the next cartridge for the Smith 500 frame is the 460 magnum. Gun will be able to fire 45 Colts, 454's and the 460. Four models are planned. Regular production guns with either a 4 or 8 3/8 inch barrel. Performance Center guns with either a 6.5 or 10.5 inch barrel.
S&W 460 Magnum
- Thread starter klw
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The case will be straight, .45 Colt headsize etc. but 1.8" long, give or take. This is about .2" longer than the .500 case. This was done to take advantage of the Smith's 2.300" long cylinder and (perhaps more importantly) to prevent competitors with guns with shorter cylinders (Ruger, Taurus, Dan Wesson) from building guns that chamber the new round.
Talk in June was S&W wanted to get 65,000 psi SAAMI spec on the new round, the same as the Casull and 5,000 more than the 500. Bullet weights 200 to 400. 200s are getting 2350 FPS.
The gun will be 5 shot. Gary Reeder can rechamber to a .452 on a 500 case, and see if that works.
My personal belief is that this new caliber will be rough on forcing cones, as people will tend to shoot jacketed bullets of 250 grains or less at high velocities. The long S&W cylinder lends itself to heavy bullets in big calibers. The .500 is apt to be *my* solid favorite of any new calibers built on the X-frame. But I'm a strong believer in the theory that all new development is good, in that if it appeals to anyone (as it is sure to) it deepens our collective interest and strengthens our political base. You'll never get a "who needs it?" comment from me on something like this.
Two prototypes exist at the moment. Recoil with the 200 @ 2350 is half that of the .500.
Barrel length with removable comp is 8". Actual rifled length is right at 7". The barrels have a gain twist.
Weight is an ounce or two heavier than the 8 3/8" 500, due to smaller holes. Yes, it has a full underlug.
Naturally I want it with a half lug and no comp, but this looks like a very interesting gun and round for long range plinkers like me. S&W did exactly the right thing going with a 1.800" case given that their gun has a 2.300" cylinder.
Gunwriter preproduction samples supposed to be available near yearend.
JR
Talk in June was S&W wanted to get 65,000 psi SAAMI spec on the new round, the same as the Casull and 5,000 more than the 500. Bullet weights 200 to 400. 200s are getting 2350 FPS.
The gun will be 5 shot. Gary Reeder can rechamber to a .452 on a 500 case, and see if that works.
My personal belief is that this new caliber will be rough on forcing cones, as people will tend to shoot jacketed bullets of 250 grains or less at high velocities. The long S&W cylinder lends itself to heavy bullets in big calibers. The .500 is apt to be *my* solid favorite of any new calibers built on the X-frame. But I'm a strong believer in the theory that all new development is good, in that if it appeals to anyone (as it is sure to) it deepens our collective interest and strengthens our political base. You'll never get a "who needs it?" comment from me on something like this.
Two prototypes exist at the moment. Recoil with the 200 @ 2350 is half that of the .500.
Barrel length with removable comp is 8". Actual rifled length is right at 7". The barrels have a gain twist.
Weight is an ounce or two heavier than the 8 3/8" 500, due to smaller holes. Yes, it has a full underlug.
Naturally I want it with a half lug and no comp, but this looks like a very interesting gun and round for long range plinkers like me. S&W did exactly the right thing going with a 1.800" case given that their gun has a 2.300" cylinder.
Gunwriter preproduction samples supposed to be available near yearend.
JR
Now THIS sounds much more interesting to me than the .500! I've always said that the .44 Magnum is more than enough round for anything in the Lower 48, and that the "hotter" rounds are more marketing than necessity. However, a high-velocity equivalent to the .44 would be very, very nice at long range: the .454 Casull gave higher velocities, but not much higher, so that it still wasn't that much better as a long-range performer. This new round, with velocities approaching double those of the .44 Magnum, is likely to be very flat-shooting, extending the effective range of a revolver out to 150 yards and perhaps beyond. Also, in the X-frame platform, there's enough "beef" to the revolver to minimize control problems.
Daddy like...
Daddy like...
Interesting. Let me see if I'm grasping the data about the dimensions here. (and pardon me if this seems like a lot of pedantic detail to get to a pretty straightforward conclusion).
If you will be able to properly chamber .45 Colt and .454 Casull in this gun, then the new ".460" must have the same cartridge diameter (is that "headspace", Mr. Ross?) as the aforementioned two cartridges.
And the .454 Casull (from the standpoint of external dimensions) is basically a lengthened .45 Colt cartridge.
And you've reported that the .460 Magnum case is going to be longer than the .500 S&W case. Which, if memory serves, means it will also be longer than the .454 Casull.
So it seems to follow that what we have here is essentially a greatly lengthened .45 Colt case -- i.e., stretched past the length of the .454 Casull. And probably reinforced inside, sure, but with the same outer diameter as the .45 Colt.
Do I have it right?
If you will be able to properly chamber .45 Colt and .454 Casull in this gun, then the new ".460" must have the same cartridge diameter (is that "headspace", Mr. Ross?) as the aforementioned two cartridges.
And the .454 Casull (from the standpoint of external dimensions) is basically a lengthened .45 Colt cartridge.
And you've reported that the .460 Magnum case is going to be longer than the .500 S&W case. Which, if memory serves, means it will also be longer than the .454 Casull.
So it seems to follow that what we have here is essentially a greatly lengthened .45 Colt case -- i.e., stretched past the length of the .454 Casull. And probably reinforced inside, sure, but with the same outer diameter as the .45 Colt.
Do I have it right?
Plainsman, it sounds like that to me... something similar to the .357 Maximum, which greatly lengthened the .357 Magnum case.
BusMaster007
Member
I've been thinking about the 454 Casull lately. Was comparing the Ruger SRH, and the Taurus. Figuring that since I already load .45 Colt, and my dies will also work on 454 Casull, I could shoot my .45 Colt loads, and pick up an occassional box of 454 Casull's for that high powered thrill.
Now if S&W is going to market a revolver that'll shoot both the .45 Colt, the 454 Casull, and a new, hotter load with the same bullet diameter...well, this is worth waiting for to see what comes of it.
BTW....I just looked on S&W's website for information on this new .460 magnum, but was unable to locate anything. Where did you guys hear of this, and how do I find it......?
Now if S&W is going to market a revolver that'll shoot both the .45 Colt, the 454 Casull, and a new, hotter load with the same bullet diameter...well, this is worth waiting for to see what comes of it.
BTW....I just looked on S&W's website for information on this new .460 magnum, but was unable to locate anything. Where did you guys hear of this, and how do I find it......?
460 Magnum information here:
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/016559.html
If I had been consulted, I'd have suggested "457 S&W Magnum."
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/016559.html
If I had been consulted, I'd have suggested "457 S&W Magnum."
Freedom Arms recommends separate cylinders for shooting 45 Colt and 454 Casull in their revolvers. I would think that logic would apply to the S&W X-frame as well. Other than the buildup of crud near the case mouth (impeding the insertion of longer cartridges), is there any problem with shooting shorter length ammunition in a cylinder that is drilled with a longer chamber?
Thanks, Bob
On a lighter note...
The 45 Colt is an extended 45 Schofield, so we could call it a 45 magnum
Then the 454 Casull must be a 45 maximum
Does that make the 460 S&W, the 45 supernova?
Thanks, Bob
On a lighter note...
The 45 Colt is an extended 45 Schofield, so we could call it a 45 magnum
Then the 454 Casull must be a 45 maximum
Does that make the 460 S&W, the 45 supernova?
five shot, or six shot?
If it's five, that will still leave the .480 Super Redhawk as the world's most powerful six shot revolver, for what that's worth.
It would also be nice if they could come up with a quick detachable scope mount, that would allow for use with the iron sights.
And give us a 6.5" and 5" heavy barrel versions, please
If it's five, that will still leave the .480 Super Redhawk as the world's most powerful six shot revolver, for what that's worth.
It would also be nice if they could come up with a quick detachable scope mount, that would allow for use with the iron sights.
And give us a 6.5" and 5" heavy barrel versions, please
There's a good article on the gun and cartridge in the current issue of Shooting Times.
Here's what S&W's website has to say:
clic pic
Specifications
SKU: 163460
Caliber: .460 S&W Magnum®
Capacity: 5
Barrel Length: 8-3/8" (7-3/8" + 1" Compensator)
Front Sight: Gold Bead Black Patridge and HI-VIZ. Green Dot Interchangeable
Rear Sight: Adjustable Black Blade
Firing System: N/A
Grip: Rubber Grip
Trigger: N/A
Hammer: N/A
External Safety: N/A
Frame: X-Frame
Finish: Satin Stainless
Overall length: N/A
Material: Stainless Steel
Weight Empty: 73.0 ounces
Other Features
Removable, Interchangeable Compensator
Other Features
2330 FPS/200 Grain! The Highest Velocity Revolver in the World
2400 ft/lbs! The Most Powerful .45 Caliber Revolver in the World
If You Zero its Sights at 200 Yards, You Will Bag Your Buck with a Center Hold. 0-250 Yards with No Hold Over! Just Center It and Fire. The 460XVR will Do The Rest
Gain Twist Rifled Barrel for Superb Accuracy
Lighter Loads That The 460 Will Also Fire Include .45 Colt and .454 Casull
Incredibly Low Perceived Recoil For All Loads
Here's what S&W's website has to say:
clic pic
Specifications
SKU: 163460
Caliber: .460 S&W Magnum®
Capacity: 5
Barrel Length: 8-3/8" (7-3/8" + 1" Compensator)
Front Sight: Gold Bead Black Patridge and HI-VIZ. Green Dot Interchangeable
Rear Sight: Adjustable Black Blade
Firing System: N/A
Grip: Rubber Grip
Trigger: N/A
Hammer: N/A
External Safety: N/A
Frame: X-Frame
Finish: Satin Stainless
Overall length: N/A
Material: Stainless Steel
Weight Empty: 73.0 ounces
Other Features
Removable, Interchangeable Compensator
Other Features
2330 FPS/200 Grain! The Highest Velocity Revolver in the World
2400 ft/lbs! The Most Powerful .45 Caliber Revolver in the World
If You Zero its Sights at 200 Yards, You Will Bag Your Buck with a Center Hold. 0-250 Yards with No Hold Over! Just Center It and Fire. The 460XVR will Do The Rest
Gain Twist Rifled Barrel for Superb Accuracy
Lighter Loads That The 460 Will Also Fire Include .45 Colt and .454 Casull
Incredibly Low Perceived Recoil For All Loads
A gain twist-rifled barrel??? That's news to me... I had thought that factory gain twist rifling was a thing of the past, given modern metallurgy. Still, it was always a very accurate rifling pattern in the past, and I'm sure it will prove the same in the new revolver.
I am going to have to save up for one of these...
I am going to have to save up for one of these...
I guess ill risk getting flamed and ask WHY! The .454 allready pushes .45 bullets fast enough that penetration suffers. Why the hell would you want to push them faster. Sorry boys this gun aint going to kill nothing deader then the same bullet will in a .45 colt at 1200 fps. Im not a big fan of the .500 smith or linebaugh maximum for the same reason cant see where one is any more effective then a standard .500 linebaugh. Just make more noise recoil more and impress all the yuppies at the range. Only advantage i see to the smith .500 is that it allows people to buy a .500 at a reasonable price. Loaded sensibly it makes a good hunting gun. Theres allready reasonalby priced .45s
Lloyd your trying to confuse the issue with logic.
Why buy a big block Chevy when a 4 banger Honda will take you to the same places? Power! Power to the people! It's an American tradition.
Why buy a big block Chevy when a 4 banger Honda will take you to the same places? Power! Power to the people! It's an American tradition.
Lloyd, if you'll read my first post in this thread, the reason for the excitement is that this is the first revolver round that will be a genuine 200-yard shooter. All others - including the .454 Casull - are rainbow-trajectory rounds at anything much over 100 yards. This fast, flat-shooting round gives a very nice trajectory, extending the revolver's effective range as no other round has before. Sure, all of them would reach out a long, long way, but the difficulty of aiming one accurately has always been to allow for the "rainbow" trajectory. This obviates that.
preacherman ill go two ways on this one. First come out to the linebaugh semainar someday and youll be amazed at what a lowly old .45 colt will do out past even 500 yards with a man behind it that knows it and second other then with a scope i doubt if id ever attempt a shot at a living animal past 100 yards anyway. I guess the reason i quit using contenders then quit using scopes was to get my hunting back on a more personal level. I guess if i wanted to shoot animals at 200 yards i wouldnt be a revoler shooting handgun hunter id go back to rifles or contendors. But this is just my way of thinking and theres nothing wrong with someone else wanting to hunt in a different style then me. But if i have to tote a 4lb or heavier handgun to kill something at 200 yards then id just as soon have a rifle. My .444 or .356 levers will do it with open sights and to me a little more style. One thing it would make is a hell of a silouette gun though those steel animals dont suffer when gut shot.
now to brassballs post. Im a bigboar nut too i have a .475 and a .500 line. and have had two other .500s and am having another .475 built right now and have owned a 69 ss 396 nova and a 70 ls6 chevele so im not imune to that desiese either. But the idea of a big block chev in a panel van doesnt do anything for me. Now if smith would just get off there ass and build me what i want, an N frame 5 shot .50spec or 475 spec id be all over one. The x frames just dont do anything for me but those 4 inch N frames are to me the most beautiful guns ever made. Again guys dont take this as me bashing your pride and joy. Everyones tastes are different. Thank God as some of my freinds are gun writers and builders and they wouldnt have jobs if everyone thought like me.
Ladies and Gentleman, we have a winner!! All I can say is WOW. I've been waiting for this from S&W for years. To me, the big advantage is like any weapon chambered for 454Casull, you can download for target shooting with 45Colt. The 460S&W Magnum is just icing on the cake!! I wonder what and when the availability is going to be?
After waffling on the 500, I think my X frame is here. Just gotta wait for the 6.5" ver.
All of a sudden, the Thunder Ranch 21 isn't a must have anymore.
All of a sudden, the Thunder Ranch 21 isn't a must have anymore.
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