S&W 637 vs 642 Airweight for Women's SD

[IJ1981]

Yes. In my S&W 442. She handled them with no problem. She likes the classic look of the hammer on the 637, but also realizes the snag, detritus factors not inherent in the 642.

I will be glad when the decision is made!
I have 3 daughters (and 2 sons) and 11 granddaughters and 9 grandsons! So I have been the go to guy for for 2 generations. I am tired!

 

[IJ1981]

@ Chaim. Not yet in the 637 and 642. We will do that next week in both.

 

[ThomasT]

My 22 year granddaughter has owned the 637 for five years and loves it. She is 5'6" and weighs 120, same as my daughter. Neither has any problem handling recoil with the Hornady 110 SD loads.

Thats what I was going to suggest. Just go with lighter bullets in the loads. It makes a big difference in recoil. I have a 442 and a 637 and really like the trigger on the 637 better. Both are stock guns. I do carry the 442 the most. I like how it slips in my pocket. Mine is loaded with WC bullets loaded past the target variety. I also have some Winchester 110gr loads that are hot but not that bad to shoot. I also load some 124gr lead bullets I cast with 3grs of Bullseye and those are like shooting a big 22lr. Anyone can shoot those without pain or flinch. I would rather use those than a 22 for SD even though they were never intended for that role.

 

[ms6852]

She likes the classic look of the hammer on the 637, but also realizes the snag, detritus factors not inherent in the 642.

. It seems that by design in itself that a small lightweight and short barreled gun are very very inaccurate guns coupled with a 16 to 18 pound trigger which only adds to the accuracy problem. Furthermore, if one does not truly commit personal time to train and shoot this lightweight pistols this too adds another factor to the the accuracy issue.

I never realized how terrible a shot I was with the 642 until I shot it the first time. I go to the range twice a week and shoot my EDC and other guns and with my EDC at that time was the 1911 which I shot successfully and consistently at 100 yards, which is part of my training. To my surprise I shot the 642 at 15 FT. and missed the target 4 times. Wow, I was taken aback. Shooting the 642 in double action only is a huge obstacle everyone must overcome because it is a very heavy pull on that trigger. Another issue I faced was grips, entirely too small for my large hands which only served to feel more painful bites from that gun. I decided to buy the crimson trace grips for the 642 because the grips are larger and fit good on my hands but most importantly the laser allowed me to put 5 shots on the target once I dialed it in. Know that the shot group still looked like a shotgun pattern. That double action is real bad and squeezing the trigger will move your point of aim. For these reason I would recommend if she is still insisting on an airweight I would choose the gun with the hammer. With this gun she can cock the hammer and shoot it single action which will be more accurate than the double action only handgun...just my 2¢.

 

[IJ1981]

@ms6852. A lot of great first hand info. My daughter is reading the thread and we will keep your hard earned experience in the front of our minds.

 

[fxvr5]

. It seems that by design in itself that a small lightweight and short barreled gun are very very inaccurate guns coupled with a 16 to 18 pound trigger which only adds to the accuracy problem.

Goodness, what .38 caliber guns have a 16-18 pound trigger?

 

[entropy]

Neither. Get her the stainless 642. My sister traded her 642 Airweight towards a stainless one then went to a Glock 44. Tried talking her out of that but to no avail.

 

[fxvr5]

Neither. Get her the stainless 642. My sister traded her 642 Airweight towards a stainless one then went to a Glock 44. Tried talking her out of that but to no avail.

Not familiar with the stainless 642.

 

[ThomasT]

. It seems that by design in itself that a small lightweight and short barreled gun are very very inaccurate guns coupled with a 16 to 18 pound trigger which only adds to the accuracy problem. Furthermore, if one does not truly commit personal time to train and shoot this lightweight pistols this too adds another factor to the the accuracy issue.

I never realized how terrible a shot I was with the 642 until I shot it the first time. I go to the range twice a week and shoot my EDC and other guns and with my EDC at that time was the 1911 which I shot successfully and consistently at 100 yards, which is part of my training. To my surprise I shot the 642 at 15 FT. and missed the target 4 times. Wow, I was taken aback. Shooting the 642 in double action only is a huge obstacle everyone must overcome because it is a very heavy pull on that trigger. Another issue I faced was grips, entirely too small for my large hands which only served to feel more painful bites from that gun. I decided to buy the crimson trace grips for the 642 because the grips are larger and fit good on my hands but most importantly the laser allowed me to put 5 shots on the target once I dialed it in. Know that the shot group still looked like a shotgun pattern. That double action is real bad and squeezing the trigger will move your point of aim. For these reason I would recommend if she is still insisting on an airweight I would choose the gun with the hammer. With this gun she can cock the hammer and shoot it single action which will be more accurate than the double action only handgun...just my 2¢.

Its not really fair to compare a 5" barreled, 40oz gun with a crisp single action trigger and I bet really good target sights to a 15oz snub with fixed hog trough sights is it? And I don't think the Mosin-Nagant even has a 16-18 pound trigger pull. Did you actually measure the trigger pull or pull that number out of your hat? How well do you shoot other double action revolvers? Shooting a revolver double action is a learned skill and yes you have to "commit personal time" to get good at it. But if you aren't willing to practice you will never get good at anything.

Springs and grips are easily changed for a better hold and lighter trigger pull. Revolvers have a huge array of after market grips to fit anyone's hands. I used to shoot falling plate matches and only shot double action. I have shot DA so much I forget that revolvers can be cocked. I can shoot any of my snubs in DA and generally hit a 13oz coffee can every shot at 30 yards. I have done it many times. See if you can find some videos of Mass Ayoob shooting snubs at 100 yards and hitting the target. It can be done.

Snub revolvers have been fired from a Ransom Rest and they WILL group. If you can't hit with your gun its probably not the guns fault.

 

[entropy]

Actually, the Mosin Nagant rifle has a long, mushy trigger that is usually between 5-8 pounds. The DA version of the M1895 Nagant revolver, OTOH, is in the 15-20# range, continually stacking until the break. You have to really want it to go off.

You are right in that snubs can be shot with accuracy at distance, and that it takes lots of practice. I am definitely out of practice, having not carried a snub in a few years.

 

[jstert]

my younger sister has a taurus 85, the steel, factory-bobbed hammer, model. i put fuller pachmayr grips on it, pink-colored naturally. she cannot carry it concealed to work, but uses it for protection at home and sometimes at the remote place where her horse is stabled. she is a natural decent shot with it. she tried my s&w 642 but didn’t like the recoil.

 

[ms6852]

Goodness, what .38 caliber guns have a 16-18 pound trigger?

Mine measured that when new!

Its not really fair to compare a 5" barreled, 40oz gun with a crisp single action trigger and I bet really good target sights to a 15oz snub with fixed hog trough sights is it? And I don't think the Mosin-Nagant even has a 16-18 pound trigger pull. Did you actually measure the trigger pull or pull that number out of your hat? How well do you shoot other double action revolvers? Shooting a revolver double action is a learned skill and yes you have to "commit personal time" to get good at it. But if you aren't willing to practice you will never get good at anything.

Springs and grips are easily changed for a better hold and lighter trigger pull. Revolvers have a huge array of after market grips to fit anyone's hands. I used to shoot falling plate matches and only shot double action. I have shot DA so much I forget that revolvers can be cocked. I can shoot any of my snubs in DA and generally hit a 13oz coffee can every shot at 30 yards. I have done it many times. See if you can find some videos of Mass Ayoob shooting snubs at 100 yards and hitting the target. It can be done.

Snub revolvers have been fired from a Ransom Rest and they WILL group. If you can't hit with your gun it's probably not the guns fault.

I believe you missed the point here. Was not comparing the 1911 to a snub nose revolver. Was merely stating that I practice frequently and my level of experience in shooting at long distances and practicing twice a week at the range surprised the heck out of me when I shot the 642 for the first time, even with all my experience. I believe it is crucial information that his daughter knows what I experienced. I was totally surprised at how badly I shot that gun at 5 yards. Also you will notice that I stated "back than I used to carry a 1911" which I don't now. My intention is not to dissuade her from buying what she want but to inform her of what my experiences have been.

Several years ago I began to carry a S&W 686 with a 3" which I have posted in prior threads here and I train by shooting double action only and also include training with my S&W 617 shooting a couple of hundred rounds each session twice a week in double action only. So nothing I have typed is misleading. Your perceptions and experiences are different than mine that is all. Also to answer your question I shoot all my revolvers very well but mostly they are 6" barreled pythons and 686's so can't really compare them to an airweight anything snub nose, can I.

 

[wnycollector]

My wife started carrying a model 37 loaded with 148gr wadcutters. She had zero issues with recoil. Eventually I stumbled across a nice 2" model 12. That is her current carry gun. She prefers the trigger on the K frame to the J frame.

 

[fxvr5]

Mine measured that when new!

The .38 caliber S&W guns trigger pull measured 16-18 pounds? That way above normal, from my experience. What was the weight of the 617 trigger pull? Thanks.

 

[Kleanbore]

With this gun she can cock the hammer and shoot it single action which will be more accurate than the double action only handgun...just my 2¢.

Not a good idea for defensive shooting. This has been discussed at length on THR.

 

[ThomasT]

I believe you missed the point here. Was not comparing the 1911 to a snub nose revolver. Was merely stating that I practice frequently and my level of experience in shooting at long distances and practicing twice a week at the range surprised the heck out of me when I shot the 642 for the first time, even with all my experience. I believe it is crucial information that his daughter knows what I experienced. I was totally surprised at how badly I shot that gun at 5 yards. Also you will notice that I stated "back than I used to carry a 1911" which I don't now. My intention is not to dissuade her from buying what she want but to inform her of what my experiences have been.

I'll say this. Of all the guns you can try to shoot sometimes the snubbies are the hardest to shoot well and take the longest to learn. But a 16-18 pound trigger pull sounds more like something was wrong with the gun. I didn't know trigger gauges would even measure that high. If your gun really had that bad of a trigger I fully understand why you couldn't shoot it. No one could shoot a gun like that very well. Thats about double what most factory triggers normally measure. Usually a set of Wolfe replacement springs will make all the difference in the world. They sure did one my SP-101. That and fixing where the bottom of the hammer was dragging on the removable trigger housing. It took me a while to figure that one out.

Now the trigger is so smooth in double action that I can lay a penny on top of the barrel and dry fire the gun double action and the penny won't bounce off. My record so far is 22 dry fires before the penny fell off. I have never heard of anyone else report that same problem but it kept the gun from operating the way it was supposed to work. Now its easy to pepper the target with rapid fire double action shots.

 

[ThomasT]

my younger sister has a taurus 85, the steel, factory-bobbed hammer, model. i put fuller pachmayr grips on it, pink-colored naturally. she cannot carry it concealed to work, but uses it for protection at home and sometimes at the remote place where her horse is stabled. she is a natural decent shot with it. she tried my s&w 642 but didn’t like the recoil.

I was going to suggest to the OP that they check out the new Taurus 856 6 shot steel snub. I have owned 15+ Taurus guns and everyone has been a decent gun. I really liked the 1990s versions with the wood grips. Those always had from very good to almost S&W quality triggers. I have owned 4 of the model 85s and regret selling everyone of them.

 

[fastbolt]

Unless carry size/weight is a concern, I'd recommend a medium-sized revolver (K-frame) to a lesser skilled shooter, especially a middle-aged female.

The very attributes that make the small J-frames so handy are also the things that make them harder to shoot accurately.

J-frames, especially the aluminum-framed models, were once considered snub revolvers best suited to experienced regular revolver shooters, and even then it required some adjustment and practice in order to shoot them accurately and controllably.

The soft shooting lead target wadcutters are favored by some recoil-averse folks, and there are some standard pressure jacketed loads that are more on the mild side, depending on the perceptions of the individual. I picked up several boxes of Hornday's CD standard pressure 110gr FTX, and it's a lot milder (to me) regarding muzzle blast than then standard pressure 110gr Winchester Silvertips and Federal Hydra-Shoks I initially used in a pristine M37-2DAO Airweight. It's such a mild-shooting, tack-driver of a load, I sometimes even use it in my +P capable J's (and .357 M&P 340's) instead of the +P loads I've usually carried for many years.

I'd think some trigger time at a range where someone could try out the guns they think interests them might be helpful. It's not like it's a rare thing that some folks who bought 5-shot .38SPL snubs haven't fired all of the first (only) box of ammunition they brought home with the gun, once they experienced the recoil of a few cylinder loads.

Me? I'm a longtime revolver shooter who owns more than half a dozen J's, most of which are Airweights or M&P's, and I've gone through many, many cases of various loads over the years. It takes practice.

 

[sixgunner455]

. It seems that by design in itself that a small lightweight and short barreled gun are very very inaccurate guns coupled with a 16 to 18 pound trigger which only adds to the accuracy problem. Furthermore, if one does not truly commit personal time to train and shoot this lightweight pistols this too adds another factor to the the accuracy issue.

I never realized how terrible a shot I was with the 642 until I shot it the first time. I go to the range twice a week and shoot my EDC and other guns and with my EDC at that time was the 1911 which I shot successfully and consistently at 100 yards, which is part of my training. To my surprise I shot the 642 at 15 FT. and missed the target 4 times. Wow, I was taken aback. Shooting the 642 in double action only is a huge obstacle everyone must overcome because it is a very heavy pull on that trigger. Another issue I faced was grips, entirely too small for my large hands which only served to feel more painful bites from that gun. I decided to buy the crimson trace grips for the 642 because the grips are larger and fit good on my hands but most importantly the laser allowed me to put 5 shots on the target once I dialed it in. Know that the shot group still looked like a shotgun pattern. That double action is real bad and squeezing the trigger will move your point of aim. For these reason I would recommend if she is still insisting on an airweight I would choose the gun with the hammer. With this gun she can cock the hammer and shoot it single action which will be more accurate than the double action only handgun...just my 2¢.

For defense, DA shooting is vastly superior: faster, smoother, and less fumble prone, especially with a Jframe. The snag-free Centennial (642/442/640) are very useable and preferred for most carry locations due to not having the hammer spur to hook, poke, or snag.

A hammer spur can be bobbed, but that isn’t necessary if you just get the Centennial, and then the internals of the gun are protected from dust and such better, too.

I have large hands as well, and have carried a 642 or 442 for 20 years, and never had that much trouble shooting them. I have factory boot grips on one, and a Hogue boot on the other. Our 60-9 has Pachmayr Compacs. My wife doesn’t like shooting the Jframes, though.

Neither. Get her the stainless 642. My sister traded her 642 Airweight towards a stainless one then went to a Glock 44. Tried talking her out of that but to no avail.

I believe that you are referring to a 640, which is a great choice if the weight for carry isn’t as important. OTOH, some will buy a steel gun for practice and HD, and carry the airweight.

My MIL bought a G44 after not enjoying shooting her new 637. She does well with the Glock.

Not a good idea for defensive shooting. This has been discussed at length on THR.

^^^^^ Very much this.

 

[ms6852]

For defense, DA shooting is vastly superior: faster, smoother, and less fumble prone, especially with a Jframe. The snag-free Centennial (642/442/640) are very useable and preferred for most carry locations due to not having the hammer spur to hoo, poke, or snag.

Very true and I had recommended to my wife to get a hammerless. But when she picked the airweight I advised her to get one with more weight, she did not listen. I personally had never fired a snub nose and never fired her gun until a couple of years had passed when I bought her a Walther PPQ she selected. In the meantime she now prefers to carry a Rossi 38 revolver that her father gave me. She and I shot this one a lot better than the 642 as it is a regular weight snub nose. I have not shot her handguns in years and normally only shoot my guns which are 45 acp, 10mm, and .357 along with 22lr.

 

[ms6852]

I'll say this. Of all the guns you can try to shoot sometimes the snubbies are the hardest to shoot well and take the longest to learn. But a 16-18 pound trigger pull sounds more like something was wrong with the gun. I didn't know trigger gauges would even measure that high. If your gun really had that bad of a trigger I fully understand why you couldn't shoot it. No one could shoot a gun like that very well. Thats about double what most factory triggers normally measure. Usually a set of Wolfe replacement springs will make all the difference in the world. They sure did one my SP-101. That and fixing where the bottom of the hammer was dragging on the removable trigger housing. It took me a while to figure that one out.

Now the trigger is so smooth in double action that I can lay a penny on top of the barrel and dry fire the gun double action and the penny won't bounce off. My record so far is 22 dry fires before the penny fell off. I have never heard of anyone else report that same problem but it kept the gun from operating the way it was supposed to work. Now it's easy to pepper the target with rapid fire double action shots.

I used the gauge to measure.https://www.amazon.com/OneTigris-Di...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795281570184&psc=1.

I did finally send it back to S&W showing them a picture of the guage. They got it down to 10 pounds. I've only shot 5 rounds after I got it back a few years ago. It is to painful for me to shoot with my arthritis now and soon will have to retire my 686 and scale back down to my 1911.

 

[ms6852]

Not a good idea for defensive shooting. This has been discussed at length on THR.

Agree, but not all defensive scenarios will require an immediate response, especially if one is aware of their surroundings.

 

[ms6852]

The .38 caliber S&W guns trigger pull measured 16-18 pounds? That way above normal, from my experience. What was the weight of the 617 trigger pull? Thanks.

The weight of the 617 is 10 pounds. I'm glad it is heavy because I use it to practice and strengthen my grip in double action only. So, when I transition to the 686 I carry after shooting the 617, the trigger on the 686 is buttery smooth.

 

[Kleanbore]

Agree, but not all defensive scenarios will require an immediate response, especially if one is aware of their surroundings.

That's just a small part of it.

 

[Old Hobo]

A Ruger LCR in .327 Magnum is a much better choice. Load it with Federal .32 H&R Magnum or Underwood .327 Magnum 95gr Xtreme Defender. Recoil is less than Underwood .38 Special 150gr LWC in a 442.

The .32 H&R magnum loading is an excellent choice when recoil is an issue. You have 6 shots vs. 5 shots. For practice one can load .32 S&W Long wadcutters. When more comfortable firing the revolver, she can move up to loads that have more recoil.

In cal .38 Special, one could also see if they could come by a 3" barrel. Gets you some more velocity, easier to control, and is still one short little revolver -- totally non-obtrusive.

As others have recommended, get her out to the range and have her try various revolver configurations. Some friends of yours and/or a gun store with a shooting range could help with obtaining a selection of revolver types. This will answer questions concerning her ability to deal with recoil and her ability to fire accurately with a double-action trigger.

Ammunition is available in "low-flash" and in "low recoil". Some women will require such ammunition.
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