S&W made in China?
- Thread starter mshootnit
- Start date
Carl N. Brown
Member
With China anything is possible. There are AK47s made in China with fake North Korean markings exported to Mexican drug cartels.
earlthegoat2
Member
Virtually every “American” manufacturer uses imported parts of some quantity and then assembles the complete unit in the USA.
For something like S&W it could be rough injection moldings for the M&P series or just plain imported steel. Most steel used to in the US comes from Canada.
John Deere is a notable follower of this and nearly all of their smaller equipment can barely be made to say “Made in the USA” if they do at all. Many DeWalt tools say “Assembled in the USA from global and domestic components”
To claim “Made in USA” certain standards have to be met. There are various degrees of nuance and vagueness associated with it as well.
Here is a part from a John Deere mower that said “Made in the USA” on it as opposed to “Assembled in the USA”.
For something like S&W it could be rough injection moldings for the M&P series or just plain imported steel. Most steel used to in the US comes from Canada.
John Deere is a notable follower of this and nearly all of their smaller equipment can barely be made to say “Made in the USA” if they do at all. Many DeWalt tools say “Assembled in the USA from global and domestic components”
To claim “Made in USA” certain standards have to be met. There are various degrees of nuance and vagueness associated with it as well.
Here is a part from a John Deere mower that said “Made in the USA” on it as opposed to “Assembled in the USA”.
Styx
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2014
- Messages
- 3,282
No, non of the firearms S&W sells are made in China. They have multiple factories in the United States. Could they have sourced the metal, polymer, molds, machinery used to manufacture their firearms from China, no one here could possibly know one way or another.
I applaud your efforts to avoid Chinese products. It is hard to do with a lot of items. At the same time some are things are easy to buy U.S.A. made stuff. Or at least a more free country. I always look to see where what I buy are made. I would have no problem buying a SKS made in China. Call me a hypocrite.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I dunno about China, but many "American" firearms companies use parts made in Turkey, India, S.Korea, and Brazil.
Riomouse911
Member
And Croatia, Spain, Italy, etc.
Palladan44
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- Nov 7, 2020
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- 1,903
Around 2016 I purchased a Model "o" Colt 1911 series 70 (MKIV) brand new.
Transferred it through a local shop.
It's a beautiful gun, has a nice hot blued finish.
The only thing the shop owner had to say about it was that it was probably "made in China these days". I'm not sure there's any truth to that, I don't think so.
Transferred it through a local shop.
It's a beautiful gun, has a nice hot blued finish.
The only thing the shop owner had to say about it was that it was probably "made in China these days". I'm not sure there's any truth to that, I don't think so.
Since there is an importation ban on guns from China dating back to the 90s, I'm pretty confident there are no guns being imported from there by any company, let alone S&W.
Materials needed to make the guns are a different subject and I have zero confidence in identifying their origins.
Materials needed to make the guns are a different subject and I have zero confidence in identifying their origins.
A shooter I know used to work for Remington Huntsville . I have a Huntsville Remington M1911, and bud told me the slide and frame forgings came from S. Korea. I thought he said "Dassad Company" but I can't find a Dassad forging company. The precision forgings came in and were machined inhouse. All the other parts were purchased completely finished from subcontractors. Boxes of parts arrived, the twenty somethings at the end of the production line picked up parts, assembled the guns. Absolutely no hand filing or adjustments were done by the workers. If a part did not fit, they grabbed another. I don't know if assemblers is a better name for the guys.
It used to be that the workers at the end of the line were assemblers/fitters. These guys were trained in the function of the mechanism. They had to know how the mechanism worked, and how the parts functioned to make the mechanism work. They knew just where and how much to file a part to make it fit, and for the pistol to go bang. Fitters were handed parts that required filing, bending, etc, to fit inside the mechanism.
Now all the assembler needs to know, is the sequence of assembly. Start with the yellow part, and put it in the yellow hole, then pick up the blue part, and put it on the blue stud, etc, etc.
It used to be that the workers at the end of the line were assemblers/fitters. These guys were trained in the function of the mechanism. They had to know how the mechanism worked, and how the parts functioned to make the mechanism work. They knew just where and how much to file a part to make it fit, and for the pistol to go bang. Fitters were handed parts that required filing, bending, etc, to fit inside the mechanism.
Now all the assembler needs to know, is the sequence of assembly. Start with the yellow part, and put it in the yellow hole, then pick up the blue part, and put it on the blue stud, etc, etc.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I believe the R1 used a cast frame at least. Not sure about the slide or where they were sourced from. Korea wouldn't surprise me, nor would it shock me if they subcontracted from Ruger's Pine Tree division
CNC machining is making casting undesirable. While this Tisas video is of making a barrel, this is a complicated part. Starts off with a cold forged barrel blank, and the barrel machining is amazingly fast.
Castings have their own issues, porosity and warp age for two. If you can start off with a precision forged billet, why do something different?
unclenunzie
Contributing Member
Feel free to read the Federal government's position, rules, law, etc on Made in the USA. If you have all day. Upper left corner has a drop down table of contents making it easier to find and read small sections of interest.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/07/14/2021-14610/made-in-usa-labeling-rule
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/07/14/2021-14610/made-in-usa-labeling-rule
I recommend reading Appendix I, Majority opinion on the final rule, and Appendix II, dissenting opinion.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/07/14/2021-14610/made-in-usa-labeling-rule
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/07/14/2021-14610/made-in-usa-labeling-rule
I recommend reading Appendix I, Majority opinion on the final rule, and Appendix II, dissenting opinion.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
There are several long threads on the topic at 1911 Forums. The general consensus is that Remington used cast frames on most R1 models up until 2015 or so when they were replaced by forgings. The cast frames are identifiable by an "ERPC" stamp beneath the grips.
Some claim the letters stand for Eliphat Remington Pistol Company. Others say the RPC could be Ruger Pinetree Casting. I doubt we will ever know the full truth of the matter.
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Jim Watson
Member
I'd like to have seen that barrel further back upstream. Can a hammer forge rifling machine turn out a big stepped blank like that?
A forged billet? I thought billet was just hot rolled or cold rolled flat stock. Seems wasteful to drop forge something not as close to net as you can get.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I have a Stevens 320. Made in PRC. I was a little disappointed when i saw that. Pic borrowed from google.
Jim Watson
Member
With good reason! I love mine!
El Paso is known as the Sun City, so being a native, I found a pawn shop on Dyer. Went in and saw a shotgun with "Sun City Machinery" as the brand and got excited thinking someone's manufacturing guns in El Paso.
When I pointed out that they had the brand wrong, that it was in fact a Savage, the lady snarkily replied "are you interested in the shotgun or the paperwork?"
I just gave her the gun back and left. Woulda bought it, but c'mon man.
§ 447.52 Import restrictions applicable to certain countries.
"It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses and other approvals with respect to defense articles and defense services originating in certain countries or areas. This policy applies to Afghanistan, Belarus (one of the states composing the former Soviet Union), Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Mongolia, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, and Vietnam. This policy applies to countries or areas with respect to which the United States maintains an arms embargo (e.g., Burma, China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, and UNITA (Angola))"
27 CFR § 447.52 | eRegulations (atf.gov)
Shotguns were excluded from the embargo. Defense articles include gun parts. If the wholesale value is over $100 an import license is required for any country.
"It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses and other approvals with respect to defense articles and defense services originating in certain countries or areas. This policy applies to Afghanistan, Belarus (one of the states composing the former Soviet Union), Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Mongolia, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, and Vietnam. This policy applies to countries or areas with respect to which the United States maintains an arms embargo (e.g., Burma, China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, and UNITA (Angola))"
27 CFR § 447.52 | eRegulations (atf.gov)
Shotguns were excluded from the embargo. Defense articles include gun parts. If the wholesale value is over $100 an import license is required for any country.
They are not imported from China. They are made in the USA.
Where did the idea they were made in China come from?
No surprise but their BB pistols are made in Taiwan.
https://store.smith-wesson.com/recr...al-19rd-co2--[bb-gun-air-pistol]/2255051.html
https://store.smith-wesson.com/recr...al-19rd-co2--[bb-gun-air-pistol]/2255051.html
