S&W Model 66 K-frame problems

[.cheese.]

I took a Model 66 K-frame entirely apart to work on it. It just went back together. There are a few problems though.

1) It has a new extractor rod. The problem is that when the cylinder is locked in place, and I push the cylinder release thumb latch, the cylinder is still stuck b/c of the locking bolt. When the old extractor rod is in place, it works just fine. Oddly, they both seem to be identical. What's the deal?

2) The hand does not work when the gun is tilted upwards. Works fine when gravity assists it with the gun pointed barrel down, but won't rotate the cylinder when the barrel is pointing up.

also, the spring that's in the trigger assembly? Does that need to be put a certain way? It doesn't even seem to be necessary?

 

[.41Dave]

Did you also replace the center pin? The new ejector rod rod may be too long, or the center pin too short.

The spring in the trigger assembly is very important. It is called the hand spring. I strongly suspect that your hand problem is caused by the hand spring being incorrectly reinstalled. If the hand spring is incorrectly installed or missing, the hand will fall back and fail to engage the ratchets when the gun is pointed up (just as you describe).

 

[nicholst55]

+1. I strongly suspect that these are the cause of your problems.

 

[machinisttx]

So, you disassembled a gun without understanding how it works or making note of what tiny part goes where....

I suggest picking up a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's S&W Shop Manual, it may save you a few bucks when compared to having to have a gunsmith fix an improperly done job.

 

[.cheese.]

I didn't replace the center pin. I'll order a new one and hope it's longer. It's weird that the old one is too short, because when I look at the new extractor rod up against the old one, they both look to be identical in dimensions, and the threads seem to start and stop in the exact same place. That's just weird.

The spring makes total sense now that I think about it. DOH!

machinisttx - I'm much more used to detail stripping my Glocks. I'm not forcing anything in place, so nothing is going to get broken.

 

[.cheese.]

is there any way to get the spring in the trigger assembly set up without taking the trigger assembly and rebound slide assembly out? That rebound slide is the only tough part to get back in with all the spring tension to deal with.

ETA: nevermind. Got it.

 

[earplug]

What problems did the M66 have before you took it apart?
That may help in correcting your assembly problems.

 

[Landlocked Pirate]

I happened to experience a very similar problem recently when disassembled my Model 66 to replace the trigger. I was reinstalling the gun's original trigger because the one it had in it was the wrong one for that model (long story). The trigger on my gun is the newer MIM trigger as opposed to the older forged trigger. The older trigger has the hand spring pinned in place but the MIM trigger does not, and I found out it's real tricky to install the hand spring.
My salvation came from doing an exhaustive internet search and finding this thread at the S&W forum:

http://http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/875107028/p/4



The excellent pictures showed how and where the spring is installed. It was still a lot of aggravating work to get it in right, but I finally did and it works.
Good luck.

 

[Landlocked Pirate]

is there any way to get the spring in the trigger assembly set up without taking the trigger assembly and rebound slide assembly out?

I'm no expert, but I don't think so.

 

[.cheese.]

hmmm.... I thought I could get it with a thin flat head screwdriver, but it's not catching.

So, off the trigger goes.

 

[Virginian]

I gotta ask... if the ejector rods are identical/exactly the same, why'd you change it?

 

[.cheese.]

cosmetic issues. Nothing substantial. The old one was looking pretty worn and the checkering on the end had some rust. It's an old gun that hasn't been taken care of (not my gun).

 

[20nickels]

I'm watching this one closely. I have 3 ejector rods to install/replace, they are on the way. Two are bent and drag upon turing and one is for my new 2nd cylinder.

 

[.cheese.]

I ordered a new center pin. It will probably do the trick, although it's still odd that it would be too short when the new ejector rod is the same size. It must be just a hairline difference that I can't see. I can't imagine what else would be responsible for the issue.

 

[Majic]

Many a gun have gone to the grave from someone working on them that haven't got a clue.

Nothing substantial. The old one was looking pretty worn and the checkering on the end had some rust.

I guess you didn't know that the head on the ejector rod screws off and you can just replace that. Get a manual and learn what you are trying to do.

 

[.41Dave]

.cheese, be aware you will likely have to file the new center pin to fit. The old center pin is probably only a few thousandths short, but that is all it takes.

 

[machinisttx]

Many a gun have gone to the grave from someone working on them that haven't got a clue.

Yep. I have a M&P/Victory that was the victim of a shadetree(and probably drunk) "gunsmith".

 

[.cheese.]

I guess you didn't know that the head on the ejector rod screws off and you can just replace that.

Actually I do know that. Brownells doesn't sell just that end piece. For a couple bucks, I just got a whole new ejector rod. What's the big deal?

.cheese, be aware you will likely have to file the new center pin to fit.

I figured that much. Thanks though.

 

[.cheese.]

btw - I'm not trying to seem rude or anything.

I'm just being realistic here. Bottom line is that detail stripping and reassembly on a revolver with less than a dozen parts to put back in place isn't that big of a deal. I didn't know what to do with the spring in the trigger assembly as the schematic wasn't clear exactly what it does - so I asked here and problem solved.

It's true that guns can be damaged if you don't know what you're doing, however, nothing gets damaged when you aren't forcing things around and pieces just fall into place. I only have experience in the past working with my J-frames.... I don't own any K-frames (yet). So - this was a bit of a learning experience, but nothing gets damaged when you're being gentle with it and careful. If I got stuck, I'd just take it to a local gunsmith and pay them to do it right - but that didn't happen. I had 2 minor issues which aren't worth getting concerned about and had easy fixes.

So, I'm just saying - relax and don't worry about me damaging anything. I've taken apart and reassembled things far more complicated without a problem.

 

[machinisttx]

So, I'm just saying - relax and don't worry about me damaging anything. I've taken apart and reassembled things far more complicated without a problem.

So have I. I've also worked with things MUCH more finely fitted than a S&W, and yet I own the S&W shop manual. It really is worth the $20.

 

[.cheese.]

Went ahead and ordered it just in case.

The new center pin arrived. Fits perfectly as-is actually. Oddly, it is noticeably shorter than the old center pin. Only by a mm or so, but enough that it fixed the problem. So now everything should work.

 

[.cheese.]

weird.

It fits, and works as it should, but I noticed that the ring on the center pin which holds the center pin spring in place is actually closer to the tip than on the older one, causing the pin to not protrude quite as much as the old one. That has me a little worried that perhaps under recoil, the cylinder might disengage the bolt and come out of place.

According to the schematic though, the part I received is correct.

I guess I should call S&W and have them look things up via the serial number and figure out why the difference.

While it "works" - I won't be comfortable until it's perfect.