S&W Revolver Terms

[Scrrem]

I am new to the forum, and I love S&W revolvers. I have been reading some threads and I keep hearing the term "Pinned and Recessed". What does that mean? I have a M19-5 6 inch barrel, TT, TH, TG. Does mine gun have this?

Sorry for the dumb question
Scrrem

 

[.38 Special]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3982720&highlight=pinned+recessed#post3982720

Scroll down to posts #8 and #9.

 

[Starter52]

+1

That earlier post has some excellent pictures.

FYI - many S&W revolvers were just pinned and not recessed. S&W didn't recess the chambers on .32 and .38 revolvers.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Or .44 Special only guns or .45 ACP's; just magnums and rimfires.

Since Scrrem obviously is a person of taste and discernment, I'd like to recommend the Standard Catalogue of Smith & Wesson, 3rd edition, by Supica & Nahas. Really excellent book, even my local Barnes & Nobles carries it.

 

[spwenger]

Another FYI

Recessed chambers make sense on a rimfire revolvers because they support the thin rim area of the case that contains the priming compound but also must contain the pressure generated when the round is fired. They were a "frill" that was incorporated into Magnum revolvers but, since they really served no function (the rim area on a centerfire cartridge is solid and is usually adjacent to a substantial web area), the recessed chambers were deleted in the interest of reducing manufacturing costs.

It's not uncommon when perusing ads for the older S&W revolvers to see "P&R, TT, TH, RR, WO." The latter terms are "target trigger" (wide and grooved), "target hammer" (wider spur for easier thumb-cocking), "red ramp" (red insert in the front sight) and "white oulline" (a white line outlining the square notch in the leaf of the rear sight).

 

[SaxonPig]

S&W pinned the barrels in place up until 1982. Here's a photo showing the barrel pin.




The chambers were counter-bored (recessed) to enclose the case rims only on the Magnum calibers and the .22 rim fire calibers. The 38s, 44 Specials and 45 Colt caliber guns were never recessed. This feature was also dropped in 1982 except for on the rim fire calibers. The recessed chambers look like this:



You can spot a recessed gun from the side by the visible gap between the rear of the cylinder and the frame. On the recessed guns the gap is minimal while the non-recessed guns show quite a gap with plenty of light coming through.

This gun is recessed:




This one is not:

 

[.38 Special]

Seldom has a question been so thoroughly answered. Dunno if this quite deserves to be a sticky, but I'm certainly going to remember it the next time the subject comes up.

 

[Hawk]

On a tangential note, what is the reference to "old school pinned sear" sometimes seen on S&W's Performance Center products?

I presume this refers to the pinned double-action sear that sits in the middle of the hammer. I'm familiar with what one looks like from a 1998 example but I don't know if that's "old" or "new" school and what could have changed that going back to "old" school would be considered a good thing.

In fact, given something like a 625 which has a "forged hammer and trigger" along with the "old school" whatchamasear, is this something of an "old school" S&W apart from the frame lock?

 

[19-3Ben]

Saxonpig- In the last pic you posted, the revolver looks as though it has a pinned barrel, but not recessed chambers. I thought they did away with both P and R at the same time. no? Which models have a pinned barrel but no recess? That's interesting.
fortunately, my 19-3 has both P&R. I think it's a really nice plus. A sign of a lot of craftsmanship.

 

[Scrrem]

Wow! I really got schooled with all the great answers. Thanks for so thoughly answering my question. Great folks on this site!
Scrrem

 

[SaxonPig]

19-3ben- Like I said, not all S&W revolvers were recessed. The center-fire calibers that were not Magnums were never recessed. The gun in the photo is a 1950 .44 Special made in 1955 but being a non-Magnum caliber it is not recessed. A .357 Magnum made at the same time would be recessed.

 

[Brian Williams]

Saxonpig is correct, but occasionally during the transition from P&R to those without, some barrels on magnum guns were pinned and the cylinder was not recessed, and visa versa.
You can never tell with S&W particularly during their Gun of the Week era.

 

[SaxonPig]

I have seen many 1981-82 N frames with recessed chambers and unpinned barrels (especially 4" 27-2s) but not the other way around. I figured they were running out of pinned barrels and started using the new unpinned parts.

 

[DMK]

Wow, I never noticed these details. I just checked out my Model 28 which is definitely pinned and recessed, compared to my Model 10 which is pinned but not recessed. The recessed cylinders definitely look more 'finished' when the gun is loaded. It's a nice custom touch.

What's the advantage to the pinned barrel? Did they have a problem with these unscrewing? Have they had any problems since they stopped?

 

[spwenger]

Presumably...

What's the advantage to the pinned barrel? Did they have a problem with these unscrewing? Have they had any problems since they stopped?

...in the original manufacturing process the pin was required to prevent the barrel from unscrewing or screwing in too far. At some point, the use of an "intereference" or "crush" fit in the threads rendered the pin redundant and it was eliminated as a cost-cutting move.

 

[SaxonPig]

Colt never pinned their barrels so it's not like it's some big necessary thing. The pinned ones have a slight advantage if you replace them (less likely to damage the threads or frame in removal than with the crush fit of the unpinned models). Otherwise, no real difference.

I think S&W introduced the counter-boring in 1935 on the then new .357 Magnum model in an effort to make the gun as deluze as possible. As the later Magnum calibers were introduced (44 and 41) they continued the practice. Again, Colt never did this and it really isn't necessary.