SAA malfunctions for him but not me

[Tallball]

I got a SAA replica a month or so ago. It's a Cimmaron made by Pietta, in 9mm with a 4.75" barrel. This was its second range trip. It seemed to shoot okay on its first range trip. The cylinder base pin got strangely loose after a while, so I set it to the side. When I got it home, it seemed that the safety notches in the cylinder base pin had gotten rotated improperly. I replaced the cylinder base pin with a normal one and it seemed to work fine.

Today at the range I put a few cylinders through it. I wasn't shooting well today, but the 1873 shot fine. I need to file the sight down a little more. My friend borrowed it to shoot it. He is good with DA revolvers and semiautos. I love him, but he has to relearn to use a SA revolver every time. He tried to put a cylinder through it and had a bunch of misfires. I pointed out that the cylinder base pin had been pulled out a bit and pushed it back in properly. He then attempted another cylinder, with several cartridges failing to ignite. They all ignited by the second strike. The base pin was tight the whole time. I watched.

I took it and shot 2-3 cylinders through it, NP. I figured it must be his ammo and handed him a handful of mine with the revolver. He proceeded to shoot a cylinder or two with numerous light strikes.

I then shot several cylinders through it with the same ammo and had zero problems.

Anyone have any idea what was going on? I'm kinda stumped. Gonna go over the Pietta carefully after I rest and eat something.

FWIW, if you're shopping for a SAA, the Pietta shoots fine for me. I got it for around $490, plus shipping and fees. The sights need to be filed down a little more. One side of the non-matching "one piece" wooden grips is ugly and they don't fit just perfectly. The finish is on the steel is really nice and feels like it will last. Most importantly, the trigger and action are very nice and I like shooting it. It will be going to the range with me a lot.

Let me know if you have an idea about why it will shoot for me and not for my friend. Spurious posts about hauntings are encouraged.

Cimarron Pistolero 9mm

• Tallball
• Jun 20, 2023

 

[Mark_Mark]

I have had tons of questions about my 1873’s answered in the Black Powder section. Those guys there know there stuff

 

[Jim Watson]

Does it have one of those tricky triggers to keep you safe from yourself?

I have run into a couple of patent triggers that did not work for me but did fine in other hands.

 

[Leon tP]

Loose grip/hold maybe?

Trigger issue? Compare how he is pulling, jerking or otherwise not moving the trigger straight back. I'm guessing here, but it sounds like something might be binding/misaligning by the way he pulls, presses or jerks the trigger backwards.

 

[J-Bar]

Was he shooting duelist style (one-handed) or two-handed?

It's common for two-handed shooters to cock the hammer with their left thumb, but if they don't get that thumb completely out of the way it can interfere with the hammer fall, causing a light strike. If shooting two-handed rapid fire with a high grip, the web of the right hand may prevent the hammer from reaching full cock or it may interfere with the hammer fall. Common new shooter problems at a cowboy action match.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Was he shooting duelist style (one-handed) or two-handed?

It's common for two-handed shooters to cock the hammer with their left thumb, but if they don't get that thumb completely out of the way it can interfere with the hammer fall, causing a light strike. If shooting two-handed rapid fire with a high grip, the web of the right hand may prevent the hammer from reaching full cock or it may interfere with the hammer fall. Common new shooter problems at a cowboy action match.

^^^ he’s from the Black Powder section! the knowledge those BP guys have!

 

[Tallball]

He's not a new shooter and shoots DA revolvers very well. He was killing it with his LCR today. That's the weirdest part. A brand-new shooter might do almost any crazy thing wrong, but he's 50 and has shot since he was a kid.

J-Bar has a likely-sounding explanation. I'll watch him next time. He was shooting two-handed and might have learned bad hand/thumb placement habits from shooting those bottom-loaders.

 

[Tallball]

Nope. It's the lockup. The stop isn't fitting all the way into the notches and it's only locking up 90% or something. Back to the factory it goes.

Very strange that it affected him and not me. Good thing it worked out that way so I spotted the problem sooner.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Nope. It's the lockup. The hand isn't fitting all the way into the notches and it's only locking up 90% or something. Back to the factory it goes.

Very strange that it affected him and not me. Good thing it worked out that way so I spotted the problem sooner.

I bought a band new Uberti 1873 10mm and the lock broke before I could even shoot it. This was during covid and there wait time was 1/2 a year. So I bought the parts myself and learned how to fit the lock and trigger spring thing. Was only about $25 in parts. But $1,000 worth of learning.

 

[ontarget]

OP, you may pull the hammer back more briskly than he was, causing the rotating mass to roll completely into battery even with a defective hand. Maybe that's why it would work for you but not him.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Could be late bolt drop, too long of a hand or cracked spring.

Mike

 

[unspellable]

I was looking at a Ruger Blackhawk with a view to bidding on it at an auction. Held perfectly upright it was OK. Tilted a bit to the left it started developing a short carry up. At 90 degrees it would not carry up at all. A close examination showed too much side to side clearance for the hand so that it was falling away from the ratchet. (Or maybe a bent hand, didn't open it up.)

 

[Tallball]

I think it affected my friend and not me because he was shooting it carefully and holding it like a normal human.

I hold a SA loosely with my pinky tucked under, let the barrel rise as it discharges, and cock it briskly with my left thumb as I'm getting the barrel back down. Apparently that helped it lock up better, for whatever reason.

I'm just about to change residences and will end up waiting a couple of weeks before I send it to Cimmaron. I'll post again when I get it back and take it out to the range. It's mildly disappointing and annoying, but they all make lemons sometimes. That's the way it goes.

 

[CraigC]

I have a couple theories.

He could be doing something to impede the hammer's fall.

Where are the light strikes? Are they centered or off to one side. If the timing is a bit late and he's slowly, deliberately cocking the hammer, he could be shooting before the cylinder is locked into position.

One not often discussed is follow through. You can actually press the trigger just enough to release the sear but let off quick enough for the hammer to catch at the half cock notch on its way down. By briskly cocking the hammer, you're ensuring the problem doesn't affect your shooting.

 

[Pat Riot]

Is your friend holding the trigger and slip hammer firing it or is he releasing the trigger when he cocks the hammer?

Does the Pietta have the firing pin on the hammer or does it have a transfer bar mechanism?

I am thinking that if he is holding the trigger perhaps the transfer bar isn’t operating correctly. This is just a guess.

 

[Tallball]

"It's the lockup. The stop isn't fitting all the way into the notches and it's only locking up 90% or something. Back to the factory it goes."

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Sounds like throw by or not reaching full battery or lock up as Tallball says. If the bolt head is too wide it can skip past the locking notch especially when cocked quickly. With a short hand and late bolt drop its not going into battery at full cock. Either way it's gotta be fixed.

 

[gasmandave]

Well something I've noticed with my peitta that if it's not fully cocked (4clicks) it looks like it's fully cock and I can still pull the trigger and it will drop the hammer.
Maybe that's the cause as you said he's not as familiar with SAA pistols as you are

 

[TriTone]

Does it have the new retractable firing pin safety? Some people have reported issues with such equipped models failing to fire, and there are reports on various forums of those owners being told they are “pulling the trigger too slowly/smoothly.”

No firsthand experience, but this is what I found when researching your reported issue this evening, so thought I would pass it forward as a possible avenue to explore.

 

[Dave T]

Spurious posts about hauntings are encouraged.

The obvious problem is you are shooting a completely spurious cartridge in a revolver design intended for the 45 Colts, then the 44 WCF, 38 WCF, 32 WCF, and more. But NEVER for a semi automatic pistol cartridge. Samuel Colt not only rolled over in his grave, he set up and yelled no. That's what caused the malfunctions. The spirit of the original Single Action Army objected to this sacrilege, even in an Italian reproduction. That's what happened for sure! (smiley face goes here)

Dave

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

He's lightly squeezing the trigger and the hammer might be catching the safety notch on the trigger. Seen that happen before

 

[.38 Special]

I've had a couple of guns which wouldn't fire if worked slowly, but were fine if used aggressively. The cylinders just weren't advancing quite far enough, if they didn't develop adequate inertia while cycling.

The "light strikes" is confusing, though. If he is getting actual center hits on the primers, but not hard enough to ignite the cartridges, and you do not have the same issue, then I can't begin to imagine what the problem might be.

 

[Tallball]

I just moved yesterday. As soon as I get myself settled in, the Pietta goes back to the factory. The cylinder stop probably isn't rising enough.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Real quick test, turn it upside down and cock the hammer, watch the bolt and see where it drops. It should drop about one bolt width in the lead in cut. If it's dropping just before the notch it's late timing and throw by is a real possibility. You should also be able to judge how high the bolt is sitting in the frame at rest. I guess either way it's going back to Pietta.