SAD News-Boy killed with NFA weapon-in Mass.

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What you dont want me to own a Bazooka for deer hunting Sesh
Next thing he will ask whats the best gun to take to a school shooting...
Time for the mods to step in !
 
oh, and the part that allows some states to sell to felons at gun shows with no backround check.
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I was looking for reasoned dicussion, but having found very little of it, I won't be back.
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It's hard to have reasoned discussion with someone who has every fact wrong. First you were posting of the illegality of machine guns, now you are posting of some bizarre "felony gun show" thing that is also not true.

So how do you expect a reasoned discussion when you have zero facts about the subject?
 
i dunno, $hi+ happens, always gonna be accidents, it sucks, and condolences for all involved.
 
I go to school at westfield state college. What happened is really a sorry chain of events. From what I understand, neither the father, or the instructer really permitted the 8yr. old to shoot the micro uzi, it was actually his teenage brother.

My professor is a senior official from the westfield pd, he basically said(none of which has been released, so i have to be very vague) that what happened was a bad chain of events.

Also the father isn't being cooperative with the pd, my guess is that he is trying to protect the older brother.
 
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No way this guy can blame it on the teenage kid, he is responsible for the action of ALL his kids. If this report is true, what was he doing letting a teenage kid be in charge of a weapon with an 8-year old. I'm betting there is still more of this story yet to come out.
 
This is so tragic. My heart goes out to the family of the child,however, This is exactly why CHILDREN dont need to handle guns. This makes me furious , that parents let their children do idiotic things like this. I cant imagine letting my son shoots gun until he is mature enough to handle it..:fire:
 
jnyork, you don't have to bet that there is more to the story, there is. I just can't release it here on the forum. That will be up to my professor and the chief, and DA Bill Bennet.

What happened with this whole deal was really just a serious exercise of bad judgment, and a lack of common sense on the part of the brother, the father, and any RSO that was present. It truly was tragic, and I hope, and am sure that everyone in the firearms community will learn a lesson from it.

My personal opinion: The owner of the micro uzi should have never allowed it to be on the line without his direct supervision, anyone who has shot anything like it, knows how hard they are to control. I know that I would never let any mg, smg, or any other NFA item out of my sight, especially in MA, where it is so difficult to obtain.
 
And I am not trolling for reaction. I was looking for reasoned dicussion, but having found very little of it, I won't be back.
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If you wish have a reasoned discussion then please do so. But ranting is neither reason nor discussion.
 
I've owned dozens of firearms through the years. Having never even explored the idea of buying a full auto, I knew nothing the reg. I'm shocked and I'm against it. I am hardly an anti...just partly, the part that allows us to buy fully automatic weapons, made prior to '74 or any other time...oh, and the part that allows some states to sell to felons at gun shows with no backround check.
So ladies, can we buy shoulder-mounted rocket launchers with ammo? How about fully armed F-16s? And if we can't, why not? Derned gun controllers! I know! Let's free up the gun regs a bit and let everybody and anybody buy whatever weapon they like! No age requirement. Or are you ladies for gun control, too?
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First, it's Ladies & Gentlemen. Addressing a predominantly male forum as ladies is a great way not to get reasoned discussion. Actually, yes, you should be able to buy any weapon, to include fully armed fighter aircraft. In fact, if you have the money, you can get a rocket launcher and ammo. Just do the paperwork and pay the taxes.

You ought to research letters of marque. During The American Revolution and The War of 1812 private citizens operated their merchant ships as battle ships for the fledgling United States under letters of marque. At that time a top quality merchant ship armed with appropriate canon was the equal of any battle ship in the world's navies. The Founding Fathers did not write "shall not be infringed" into the second amendment as filler to meet a word number requirement for The Bill of Rights.
 
This is so tragic. My heart goes out to the family of the child,however, This is exactly why CHILDREN dont need to handle guns. This makes me furious , that parents let their children do idiotic things like this. I cant imagine letting my son shoots gun until he is mature enough to handle it..
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My little cousin took his first deer with a rifle at age 7 or 8. There are plenty of kids who are responsible and mature enough to shoot a gun at age 8 while under direct adult supervision.

Of course, most of these kids have carried empty BB guns into the dove fields with their parents since age 4 or 5. They've had to demonstrate; through handling empty BB guns, then loaded BB guns, and finally loaded .22 rifles; that they can handle a gun safely. Only then do their parents put them behind a medium caliber centerfire deer rifle.

Folks who aren't familiar with full auto firearms also need to understand that an 8 year old shooting FA wasn't the problem here. A micro Uzi is an entirely different firearm than an M-16 or a Thompson. Micro Uzis are difficult for even inexperienced adults to control. This a very small full auto weapon, so there just isn't much weight or grip surface to help control it. In contrast, the Thompson and the M-16 are larger weapons with larger grips, and more weight. Under direct parental and range officer supervision I'd have no problem putting an 8 year old behind a Thompson or an M-16. I'd talk with the kid and do low round count familiarization fire first, as HSO has already described. I'd then have the kid seated at a bench to fire the weapon. I'd have the parent over one shoulder and the range officer over the other. If the kid did hold the trigger in a panic grip an M-16 or a Thompson will have slower muzzle climb than a micro Uzi. More importantly, there's also plenty of barrel for the RO to safely grab and push down to counter the uncontrolled muzzle rise.

The situation is a tragedy, but it's not the fault of the gun. There were several steps of failed decision making ability on the part of at least two adults, the parent and the RO, who are the responsible parties. The loss of any child, particularly under preventable circumstances, is always sad. event.
 
Very sad, and irresponsible.:( I have been shooting all my life and have shot full auto rifles (M16) and did not feel like I needed supervisory instruction and still don't. I would like to have someone w/me the first time I fired a full auto pistol, I imagine it's a whole different deal. Oh, I'm 36 yrs. old.
 
highorder said:
Guns are designed to kill. Objects that are not designed to kill regrettably do, but rarely. Guns kill far more often. Look at hunting...

What about that?
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Simple. "If you have a problem with hunting, I hope you're a vegan. Because if you're not, how do you reconcile your belief with the fact that other people get your meat and meat products by killing animals? You have a problem with pulling the trigger and killing an animal for food, but you don't have a problem with someone pulling the trigger on YOUR behalf, so you can eat your meat? How are YOU a better person because you want someone else to do the killing for you?
 
Kwahe said:
It seems to me we are missing a main point, which is, the idiot who let his kid shoot this illegal weapon is able, with few serious questions asked, to buy a gun.
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We're "missing" your main point because these weapons are NOT inherently illegal, and obtaining them requires lengthy background checks, fingerprints, registration, and a hefty fee. In other words, the main point you think we're missing is being missed because it's flat out wrong and untrue.

There will always be idiots. There will continue to be kids killed until gun owners get serious about who gets to buy guns, until there are real backround checks at gun shows and elswhere, until gun owners own up to the fact that we have idiots, careless people, and the mentally ill buying weapons and having kids. In any seriously sane world, that dad would never be able to buy a gun again. People who shoot other people...even if they happen to be vice presidents...should never be able to own a gun again.
We are all interested in responsible gun ownership, not willy-nilly sloppy gun ownership. We are all interested in gun safety, unless we're too brainless to know of the subject, which unfortunately many many gun owners are. Making Uzis available to gun owners makes Uzis available to idiots, as things are.
Here's a suggestion: maybe we should arrange to exercise a little more caution in who gets to buy (or heck, even have) guns. I don't think guns should be for everybody. Some demonstration of sanity, intelligence, and judgment might be good.
Kwahe
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I always wondered who people who have this opinion think should get to decide who should have the guns and who shouldn't. Let me guess- the people who make the laws, the people who enforce the laws, and anyone YOU feel is responsible should have the guns?

Thank you all reasonable responders. I now know one can say he's not mentally ill and buy a full auto. BATF does NOT catalog all hospitalizations for mental illness.
I am truly shocked that one may buy a full auto. I held a C&R (some paperwork, perhaps not as much as is needed for other weapons) for 3 years until I decided it was too much bother...just buy the derned things and pay an extra $5 (here in town), and I've owned dozens of firearms through the years. Having never even explored the idea of buying a full auto, I knew nothing the reg. I'm shocked and I'm against it. I am hardly an anti...just partly, the part that allows us to buy fully automatic weapons, made prior to '74 or any other time...oh, and the part that allows some states to sell to felons at gun shows with no backround check.
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Apparently you are also unfamiliar with "gun show regulations." FFLs MUST conduct a background check, regardless of whether they are at a gun show or not. And I'm unaware of any state that sells firearms to felons in the first place.

No, I don't think I should be the one who determines who the idiots are who don't get to buy weapons. Anyone else want to take that responsibility? And if so, why in heck are you even expressing regret that this accident happened?
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I'm sure the politicians will be more than happy to take that "responsibility." And a fine job they do of protecting the rights of citizens, those politicians.

I was looking for reasoned dicussion, but having found very little of it, I won't be back.
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Perhaps before you look for a reasoned discussion about a topic, you should learn about the facts pertaining to the subject matter. Instead of discussing the issue, I've spent more time pointing out the major facts pertaining to the issue that you've gotten wrong. "Facts" that sound an awful lot like the ones gun control advocates have used to push their agenda.
 
I had a gun when I was eight. I was never in danger from the gun.

The farm equipment and livestock tried to kill me several times when I was a kid. Shall we ban farming? Clearly the kid's guardians screwed up, but that's going to happen sometimes unless you lock everyone into solitary confinement.

Banning full autos won't help any more than banning tractors would... people will just screw up with some other equipment. How many kids die in swimming pools? A whole lot more than die from full autos.
 
I was about 8 (I can't remember exactly) when I went to a machine gun shoot. I fired a 10/22 most of the time and a few other semi-autos we had brought along, but at some point someone loaned us a Reising Model 50 or 60 (.45ACP subgun with a full wooden stock) and they handed it to me to shoot.

I regret it to this day, but I declined to squeeze off a burst because after a whole day of watching big dudes struggle to hold onto MP5Ks and Uzis I was scared sh*tless of the muzzle climb.

I know I could have handled it. My stance was fine and the gun was heavy and had a full stock (plus the mag only held like 10 or 15 rounds), but I wussed out anyway.

The point is, there's nothing inherently wrong with letting an 8-year-old fire a FA weapon. Just make sure the thing has a stock and make sure the kid is supervised.
 
Tragic. Kids at MG shoots can have lots of fun with mounted stuff that doesn't require such physical strength and focus to be safely controlled.

She believes in self defense, but would not support CCW of Micro-Uzis.
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I wouldn't be particularly fond of the idea of an average CCW holder carrying a 1,200 RPM subgun. It'd be akin to running a 1,700 HP, 7-second drag car on city streets-unsafe if done by anyone but a true professional, and even then not a good idea for the simple reason that things that are hard to control easily get out of control when circumstances are less than ideal.

We should have the right to do it, but would have to excercise restraint and common sense, and opt for a more controllable tool.
 
I grew up in that town and I have gone to that club many times with my dad when I was younger. It is a shame what happened. That child never should have been allowed to handle that firearm. I hope this can be a lesson to ALL of us about safety.
 
So ladies, can we buy shoulder-mounted rocket launchers with ammo? How about fully armed F-16s?
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You can!
Here was an F-18 hornet for sale mentioned on CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/02/17/jet.fighter.ap/index.html
The price was a million, and 9 million to get it ready to fly. Not much danger of someone intent on doing harm being able to afford that.
Most people with that much money are not going to risk losing all they have, and thier lifestyle by commiting a crime. The costs just to keep such things operational are rather high.
They could get armaments for it, would have to register each one with NFA paperwork I imagine. If they have the money and the connections they can though.


There is many other military aircraft you can purchase. From jets to prop aircraft.
A lot of world war 2 aircraft can be purchased, or you could have your own built new from a kit. You then are free to take legal registered machineguns and mount them on the plane. You could get say a p-51 and 6 legal M2 machineguns. Or perhaps a P-47 with 8 of them.
If you got the money it can be done.

Traveling across state lines could be a pain, and you would need to file paperwork. However you could do it.
There is a lot of legal considerations, as well as safety considerations, but everything is possible.


People have thier own tanks, howitzers etc
If you really want the latest big boy toys you can setup your own corporation and become a government contractor. Then you can try to be on the cutting edge of developing effective modern weapons, test them on your own private land and compete for contracts.

The majority of the armaments used by the US military were developed by the private sector. They were owned and possessed by private citizens before they were even possessed by the government or the military.
(If private citizens were not doing that development many innovations that keep our military the most modern in the world would not have happened.) Of course before the Hughes Amendment it was easier for the average person to join in. Now you have to become licensed and then work on creating things rather than just work on creating things and then becoming a contractor if you create something you want to sell.

Someone with enough money and desire can still have almost anything in this nation, including your own fighter aicraft, munitions, tanks etc.

It is the United States of America.
Surprise.
 
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