Safes

[Axis II]

I come across a Browning ultra 33 60min 1400 degree safe today on sale for $650. I then saw a Liberty Pro Vault for the same price but noticed instead of it having pin type locking lugs it had plates. Which would be better as far as preventing break in? Maybe picking up the browning if everything looks good in reviews. I like how it has long gun racks and pistol holders in the door.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I dont think it matters much. Either is easy enough to get into if a thief comes with getting your guns on his mind. Get the one that had features you like or matches your decor the best.

 

[Buzznrose]

Agree. If a thief can get into one, they can probably get into the other.

Only thing I’d add is if you are storing long guns, “rifle rods” rock!

https://www.storemoreguns.com/gun-s...gIBzGTEreOXSkq8so__sK70h_oCg4gJxoCIvYQAvD_BwE

 

[EMT40SW]

If I had a choice between those 2 brands I would choose Browning bases on past safe builds. That said Liberty makes good safes too. The important thing it not rely on the safe alone but as part of a valuable securing system- anchored safe, alarm, lightning, secured breach tool, & dogs.

 

[John Joseph]

My personal opinion: one without an electronic keypad.

 

[ChanceMcCall]

I don't have an opinion between those particular safes.

I think the first thing anyone needs to do when considering a safe is to be honest with oneself about what they really want the safe to do. Most gun safes are only good enough to keep kids and teens away from the guns. They don't really protect against real burglars or fire.

Safes that provide real protection against fire or burglars are rated by real organizations and they are not something you buy at a big box store. Anything else is to protect against smash and grab or to provide a false sense of security.

If I were going to seriously consider Liberty, I would consider their Presidential Model. If I were going to consider Browning, the Platinum Plus might be worth considering.

 

[FAS1]

I then saw a Liberty Pro Vault for the same price but noticed instead of it having pin type locking lugs it had plates. Which would be better as far as preventing break in?

More important than the shape is how well are they supported?

 

[Charlie98]

I went wandering through the back warehouse at a safe distributor some years ago... gun safes, fire safes, commercial safes... all can be breached in minutes if someone is determined. Weakest link is the sides, not the door... a drill and a sawzall gets you there.

My dad always said that locks only keep the honest people out. A safe is a must, of course, but it needs to be part of a bigger safety posture.

 

[FAS1]

all can be breached in minutes if someone is determined. Weakest link is the sides, not the door... a drill and a sawzall gets you there.

I would agree especially when it comes to RSC's and gun safes, so I would buy the best safe you can afford (thicker steel) and placement is just as important. Bolted down between two walls would help.

 

[Kawamax]

I agree that a large crowbar or sawzall will defeat most RSCs very quickly. If you look on craigslist/offer up/marketplace for a used safe you can find some real bargains. Look for a UL rating of TL-15 or TL-30 (the safe will have a nameplate saying what it was tested to) and you'll be getting a safe that actually earns the name "safe". An older TL-15 will have a door that is 1/2" steel, with the same age TL-30 being an inch thick. Newer TL-15 or TL-30 will be steel wrapped around concrete, with nasty stuff like carbide embedded in the concrete to kill drills and saw blades.

TL-15 and TL-30 are test specifications done for tests at UL. They specify what tools can be used, how long, etc. There is an old but interesting test here:

The biggest issue with a TL-15 or TL-30 safe is going to be the weight and getting it where you want it. After that you're good to go.

 

[Hookeye]

Thankfully most thieves are in for a smash n grab.
An RSC can be too much work/time for most.
But if you're not home for a couple days they might come back w more determination.
Esp if your place off the beaten path.

An RSC bolted down, where you have neighbors than can see stuff going on in the hood, might be all you need.

 

[wombat13]

I agree that a large crowbar or sawzall will defeat most RSCs very quickly. If you look on craigslist/offer up/marketplace for a used safe you can find some real bargains. Look for a UL rating of TL-15 or TL-30 (the safe will have a nameplate saying what it was tested to) and you'll be getting a safe that actually earns the name "safe". An older TL-15 will have a door that is 1/2" steel, with the same age TL-30 being an inch thick. Newer TL-15 or TL-30 will be steel wrapped around concrete, with nasty stuff like carbide embedded in the concrete to kill drills and saw blades.

TL-15 and TL-30 are test specifications done for tests at UL. They specify what tools can be used, how long, etc. There is an old but interesting test here:

The biggest issue with a TL-15 or TL-30 safe is going to be the weight and getting it where you want it. After that you're good to go.

Browning Pro TL-30 is $8,500 on their website! Oof.

 

[Kawamax]

^ Oof indeed - which is why I suggested to buy used. Nearish to me there are two safes (1 TL-15, the other TL-30) that are roughly 3' by 2.5' x 2.5' that would be great for storing cash and pistols. Both are under $500. Larger ones go for $2-3K in my experience...

 

[Wyo82]

More important than the shape is how well are they supported?

View attachment 969964

Can I ask, WTH happened here???

 

[Walkalong]

Browning Pro TL-30 is $8,500 on their website! Oof.

What if you have $10,000 worth of guns? Which isn't hard to do these days.

 

[Walkalong]

but noticed instead of it having pin type locking lugs it had plates. Which would be better as far as preventing break in?

Depends on how they are welded to the linkage and especially how they are supported more than what kind.

 

[gamboolman]

We have 2 X of these.
Around $4K ish.... for the latest one we bought in latter 2020 to prepare for retirement.
Do recommend
gamboolman....

 

[Blue Jays]

The vast number of choices of safes is positively dizzying along with analyzing claims and counter-claims.
Just deciding between electronic or mechanical locks alone...can take many hours of reading to research.
The decision takeaway that makes complete sense is to err on a slightly larger safe than what might be needed.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have been more impressed with Browning than any of the other consumer grade RSC names out there.

Real safes are generally meant to keep really valuable things away from crooks. I know it is difficult to accept since this is a gun enthusiast site but our average and even higher end collections are just not that monetarily valuable compared to the likes of precious metals, gemstones, and straight cash. Since large quantities of these items in one location is rare, safes designed to keep them safe are generally small.

Pawn shops and jewelry stores have real safes of the ilk we are talking. Banks have vaults which are a different topic. These devices are exceedingly expensive for your average gun collection.

My initial advice would be to look at insurance rates for your gun collection. Then decide whether a safe type device fits in with that plan. I know this plan is more hands off and less fun than buying a big heavy item but usually the most logical courses of action are. Usually though, that plan will include a safe-type device. I decided a short time ago to just go with an inexpensive RSC that is sized appropriately for my needs and let insurance cover the rest. In my instance, my standard homeowners insurance as well as NRA firearms protection more than cover my modest needs. Others will have different needs and wants.

I’m not discouraging the purchase of such a storage device as it is generally unwise to leave dangerous tools unsecured but figure this: A gun collection valued at $5000 dollars can be insured for a very low yearly price compared to a 5000 dollar safe or even a 2 or 3000 dollar one.

There is of course a laundry list of caveats and yeah buts that will go along with this depending on individual situations and perceptions such as insurance rates rising over time and insurance doesn’t protect a family heirloom. Also, eventually the safe will be economically marginalized over time versus a more expensive insurance rate for a huge collection/accumulation of firearms. The presence of a safe-type device also rarely lowers insurance premiums on said items stored within. (at least not for me) Also, one should buy insurance on your firearms if you care about losing them. Fire is a pretty efficient destroyer of most things, including guns INSIDE of even higher quality safes and RSCs. Just something to consider before going overboard on a “safe”.

 

[wombat13]

I’m thinking along earlthegoat2’s lines. Even if I had $10k worth of guns, I wouldn’t want to spend $8500 on a safe. I don’t have that great a risk of theft and on the off chance the entire collection was stolen I’d only be out a little more than what I would have spent on the safe. Monitored home alarm system to shorten the time the thieves have to work and lock the guns up to slow them down, with insurance to cover losses.

 

[earlthegoat2]

IMO, from a long term perspective, it is not great to “secure” items like these with just an insurance policy. It sets a bad precedent that valuable/dangerous/politically volatile physical items should only be kept safe with essentially a piece of paper.

Until I find better incentives for alternative means I will continue with this action though. One would think it would be more socially responsible to keep at least a marginally secure physical barrier between these items and ones who would seek to gain by depriving us of those items.

So far though, from a pure financial perspective, insurance policies win out over security devices for firearms storage.

One think I forgot about in my previous post is that some of the safe manufacturers will provide compensation for loss of items in their containers. My experience is with Liberty and involved fire, specifically. The claimant had no guns in the safe that was destroyed but Liberty compensated for items lost. I don’t know what the circumstances were for this to occur but I do know it happened as the fella came to the store I worked at and picked up a new safe covered under warranty and told the story to the store manager. The guy had a business that had a fire and the safe was utterly destroyed. I’m not too keen on the supposed fire ratings these containers have since then.