Saigas and High-Energy Loads

[Matt304]

I recently saw a Saiga 12 with an adjustable gas valve. Would this allow them to be safely used with high-energy slug loads? Or do they handle them alright anyways?

I'm wondering about the real heavy 3" loads, for instance loads similar to Lightfield, and making above 3500ft-lbs.

 

[john1911]

I recently saw a Saiga 12 with an adjustable gas valve.

As far as I know, all Saiga shotguns have an adjustable gas regulator. Position #2 is recommended for 2 3/4" shells (70 mm) and #1 for any others. It's advised to shoot 2 3/4" "heavy loads" (slugs and buck) in position #1.

My Saiga cycles everything on position #1. It doesn't kick the 2 3/4" light loads out with much authority, but it does cycle them. Empties from slugs and buck fly a pretty good ways.

Here's a little info:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=262

I'm wondering about the real heavy 3" loads, for instance loads similar to Lightfield, and making above 3500ft-lbs.

Never tried any 3" shells through mine. I may try some when I dig my turkey loads out.

 

[Matt304]

Oh alright, I did not realize they all had the adjustable gas.

Reading that link, it looks like I need to get a buffer to shoot them. They are a lot heavier than typical slugs.

 

[rocinante]

Don't put a buffer in your S12. general consensus from the top saiga builder and others is they do nothing or at worst cause cycling problems. I have never heard anybody say the S12 didn't handle any heavy load just problems with light ones.

 

[Matt304]

That link posted talks about the trunnion block getting hammered if you use the wrong gas setting, so I was assuming with the super heavy loads there may be problems. Maybe not.

 

[john1911]

That link posted talks about the trunnion block getting hammered if you use the wrong gas setting, so I was assuming with the super heavy loads there may be problems. Maybe not.

Using the correct gas setting, the gun will hold on longer than your shoulder will.

What Lightfield loads are you talking about? I've shot a bunch of 2 3/4" Lightfields and have never found them more "powerful" than any other slug loads.

 

[Rustynuts]

The problem is shooting heavy loads in position 2, not that it can't handle heavy loads. As stated, use position 1 wherever possible. Mine won't cycle reduced recoil 2.75" slugs in 1, but works fine in 2.

 

[Matt304]

What Lightfield loads are you talking about? I've shot a bunch of 2 3/4" Lightfields and have never found them more "powerful" than any other slug loads.

Well, they are actually sabots. They are made for rifled barrels of course, but if you are shooting them out of a gun for fun only and plinking around, the long tail stabilizes them alright from a smooth bore at closer ranges. I have got tight 35 yard groups with them from a smoothbore with iron sights, believe it or not. There were perfectly round holes too, no keyholes.

The recoil is far greater than any standard 3" slug, I can tell you that much. That is why I am concerned in this semi-auto. They are the most powerful 3" 12ga ammo you can buy, period. The Hybred Elites they make have 3,650ft-lbs and shoot a 546gr sabot slug. The Commander IDS Plus is a 600gr sabot slug making 3,850ft-lbs. I think they will slam the bolt with about twice the force of standard slugs. Most slugs don't even come close to the same weight, let alone energy.

 

[chris in va]

On a related note...

How would you guys rate the recoil on the Saiga 12 with normal 2 3/4 birdshot compared to say...a Mossberg 500?

I already have a x39, wouldn't mind having a 12 at some point. Heck, I'd even take a 20.

 

[john1911]

The recoil is far greater than any standard 3" slug, I can tell you that much. That is why I am concerned in this semi-auto. They are the most powerful 3" 12ga ammo you can buy, period. The Hybred Elites they make have 3,650ft-lbs and shoot a 546gr sabot slug. The Commander IDS Plus is a 600gr sabot slug making 3,850ft-lbs. I think they will slam the bolt with about twice the force of standard slugs. Most slugs don't even come close to the same weight, let alone energy.

Do you shoot them in other semis? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying. Are these loaded over SAAMI spec?

How would you guys rate the recoil on the Saiga 12 with normal 2 3/4 birdshot compared to say...a Mossberg 500?

I would say it's a little milder.

 

[Matt304]

Do you shoot them in other semis? I'm having a hard time understanding what you are saying. Are these loaded over SAAMI spec?

No, I haven't tried them in a semi-auto. I'd be afraid to without a little confirmation that they will not harm them.

They are not loaded over SAAMI spec, but I don't believe most 12ga ammo is near SAAMI spec once you shoot these.

With the heavier slug at 600gr, I assumed that more gas force will be transmitted to the piston, thus slamming the bolt harder. Since people talk about issues with Saigas slamming the bolt too hard, that is the reason why I am concerned about using these.

I'm just saying that the difference between these and a normal 12ga slug is very big when you shoot them. It feels like twice the recoil.