Sand Bucket for ND's

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Packman

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I see a lot of people advocating the use of a 5 gallon bucket full of sand for use when pulling the trigger inside. The idea being that if an ND should occur, you were aiming it in a safe direction anyway.

I'm just curious if anyone has tested it: Would a 5 gallon bucket full of sand be sufficient to stop a bullet at close range? In .45? 9mm? How 'bout .357?

I'd bet if nothing else, it would slow it down enough mitigate much of the danger, but would the bucket flat out stop a bullet?
 
Box of Truth tested sand, and weren't able to achieve more than 6'' of penetration with any round.
 
Armies around the world have been keeping soldiers busy filling sandbags for about a hundred years now for a reason...it works.
 
Most have a 6" pipe about 18-24" at about a 70 degree angle, with a rubber mouth to hold the barrel and keep the sand from splashing back

I have also seen designs with baffles, basically angle iron that was supposed to break/bounce a bullet around in the sand.
 
WOW, thanks for the link to BOT! Considering stopping material, I have thought of dirt but never sand. The evil wheels in my head have begun to turn, lol. Amazing the things that I miss from time to time!
 
Yes, a 5 gallon pail full of sand will easily stop a 230 grain jacketed .45 ACP bullet at factory loads if you shoot straight down.
I keep a 5 gallon bucket of beach sand in my cellar (to use on ice) and I also use it to test function if I've been working on a pistol. It stops an ID (Intentional Discharge) so I'm sure it will stop an ND.

Tinpig
 
I'm a little confused...putting a bucket of sand in your house to point an unloaded gun at to pull the trigger in case the gun goes off?

There aren't many guns I pull the triggers on inside, except my friend's glock to disassemble, but when it does happen I visually check the chamber 2-3 times after dropping the magazine. That works for me. Use your head and you wont need to buy a sand bucket.
 
If one is too absentminded to remember to check the chamber, what makes them think they will remember to point it at the sand??
 
As usual, everybody jumps up and down waving their arms criticizing because "they" don't see a role for it.

But just citing the fact that many police departments use the bucket of sand shows, imo. that it can provide a useful function. They have officers loading, unloading, checking clear, etc.... hundreds of times a day. That creates a lot of opportunities for malfunction or error. A simple bucket of sand and SOP adds another layer of protection.

The best safety is always between your ears.... yet people make mistakes every day. With firearms, mistakes can be fatal.

So, imo., layers of protection, and "procedures/rules/policies" that back each other up are very beneficial.

Even a simple, distilled litany such as the "four rules" have redundant elements.

Heck, if I checked the chamber clear, why the heck shouldn't I point the barrel at my kids head when I pull the trigger.

For many, there is absolutely no reason to ever pull the trigger inside their house. But if you work on guns, you may be pulling the trigger, on many different guns, in different states up repair, quite frequently. Of course you wouldn't pull the trigger on a loaded weapon. But having a bucket of sand by the bench and always pointing the weapon into the bucket when pulling the trigger just adds another layer of protection.

If firearms safety was so gosh darn simple (which in theory it is) why the heck do we have so many ND, shot a hole in the wall... my leg.... my whatever posts pop up on this board just about every week.

And then everbody chimes in and offers words of comfort to the "offender" and chides anyone who offers criticism by saying "it will happen to everyone eventually".

Personally..... It hasn't happened to me and I'll take any and all constructive actions that seem prudent to me to make sure it doesn't happen..... bucket of sand included.
 
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If one is too absentminded to remember to check the chamber, what makes them think they will remember to point it at the sand??
Click to expand...

ever forget your wallet? I have.

ever forget your keys? I have.

ever forget your wallet and your keys? I haven't.

can you forget both? sure.... easilly. you'll have to be doubly absent minded to do it however.

Nobody claimed it was "fool proof" (way to many extremes of foolishness out there for such a concept to exist)

It's just another layer of protection that some folks find beneficial....
 
I'm not critical of the procedure, never too much safety IMO, just doubt people will bother to locate the bucket of sand before pulling the trigger on an unloaded gun.
 
FYI, kitty litter works just as well as sand for stopping ND's.

And one reason to have something like this nearby is when you're loading or unloading your carry / defensive guns in the home, especially if you live in an apartment or condo.
 
I do a lot of dry fire so the bucket thing is eclipsed by my need to shoot the TV. I do agree with the concept however if you are working on a gun that needs to be loaded and possibly even test fired inside for function.
Visual check is always the best and should be adhered to religiously, anything else is asking for trouble.
 
I look at the bucket of sand as an extra layer of safety. It complements 2 of the 4 rules (never hurts to repeat all 4 of them):

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to kill / destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and beyond.

If you point the gun at the sand bucket for functional check and loading / unloading you will be pointing the gun at something that if shot will be a minimal loss (rule 2) and you will be sure of your target and beyond (rule 4).

For some people there is no way around loading / unloading a weapon in their home. For example a carry gun or home defense shotgun, both need to be loaded and having somewhere safe to point it during this process is mandatory, the sand bucket helps fill that need.

No mater how much we dislike it we do not live in a prefect world. A ND / AD could happen no mater how careful we think we are. The goal is to reduce the possibility to the same as being hit by lighting and run over by a bus at the same time (no idea what that probability is but I’m banking on it being very small). We do this by following the rules and checking (visual and touch) the camber over and over again. And then failing that, we want to make sure that if for some reason we screw up or the gun has a true mechanical fault (this is very rare compared to human error IMHO) that the discharged round is stopped somewhere safe (sand bucket).

In summary (sorry for the long rambling post) the sand bucket is not a substitute for same gun handling. It is an added layer of safety.
 
czarjl said:
I look at the bucket of sand as an extra layer of safety. It complements 2 of the 4 rules (never hurts to repeat all 4 of them):

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to kill / destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and beyond.

If you point the gun at the sand bucket for functional check and loading / unloading you will be pointing the gun at something that if shot will be a minimal loss (rule 2) and you will be sure of your target and beyond (rule 4).

For some people there is no way around loading / unloading a weapon in their home. For example a carry gun or home defense shotgun, both need to be loaded and having somewhere safe to point it during this process is mandatory, the sand bucket helps fill that need.

No mater how much we dislike it we do not live in a prefect world. A ND / AD could happen no mater how careful we think we are. The goal is to reduce the possibility to the same as being hit by lighting and run over by a bus at the same time (no idea what that probability is but I’m banking on it being very small). We do this by following the rules and checking (visual and touch) the camber over and over again. And then failing that, we want to make sure that if for some reason we screw up or the gun has a true mechanical fault (this is very rare compared to human error IMHO) that the discharged round is stopped somewhere safe (sand bucket).

In summary (sorry for the long rambling post) the sand bucket is not a substitute for same gun handling. It is an added layer of safety.
Click to expand...
czarjl I thought Rule #1 was always point the muzzle in a safe direction. The bucket of sand meets rule #1 perfectly. Your TV certainly isn't a safe direction. The wall separating the room you're in and your childs room certainly isn't safe (is he out playing with his friends or is he in his room today? shoot, I never can remember). The wall between you and your neighbor who is outside mowing his lawn isn't safe. But a bucket of sand is safe.
 
LiENUS..
czarjl I thought Rule #1 was always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
Click to expand...

That is the way I learned them… Not that it really matters. I have seen “The Rules” with 3, 4, 5 and sometimes more individual rules. The point is that they all need to be followed all the time. However many it gets broken down into is more an exercises in semantics.
 
The NRA 1st rule is to always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

Cooper's 1st rule is that all guns are always loaded.

There are sure to be other lists of rules.

Therefore, "the first rule" is ambiguous.
 
Therefore, "the first rule" is ambiguous.
Click to expand...
The first rule is that there are a lot of sets of rules.

I don't see how anyone can criticize adding a designated "safe direction" to the maintenance/cleaning/loading/clearing area. Unless you only own range toys, once in a while you'll have to load or unload a gun in your home, once in a while you'll have to do maintenance or testing, and once in a while you'll want to clean the thing.

Most modern striker-fire guns require that the striker and sear be disconnected somehow, and you're letting the striker "strike" whether you do it with the trigger or a special key only your lawyer can hand to you. While a responsible gun owner can't use a bucket of sand as a substitute for safe gun handling, (s)he CAN use it as a designated habitual spot to point guns while manipulating them, and it just might turn a tragedy into a painful hearing abuse and nothing more. I use a stack of phonebooks backed by a bin full of drinks, it is in the right spot and I'm not in the mood to drag bags or buckets of sand up the stairs ... but I do think about that safe direction and minimizing the worst-case results of a screw-up, if nothing else sighting in on your safe direction can serve as a reminder to re-check the chamber. Hell, I may put a picture of Little Tiffany from MIB on there as a reminder, now that I think about it!

[Little Tiffany scene in Men In Black, fun stuff, possibly NSFN language: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNNqNfQBs ]
 
When I practice dry firing my first trigger pull goes into something big and solid, generally a book shelf full of books but sometimes a bucket of kitty liter. I may have just dropped the mag and locked it back, checked the chamber and mag well visually and poked a finger into it and loaded a snap cap. That first trigger pull still goes into the book shelf full of books and it still scares me a little. A little fear is a safe thing.
 
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