SA's new XD catalog: Making fun of Glock's grip angle

['Card]

Arguing about grip angle is meaningless, and an utter waste of text. It's all comes down to personal preference, and what the individual shooter is accustomed to, and nothing more. Talk about it all you want, just don't delude yourself into thinking you're going to change anyone's mind.

I can correct some misconceptions about the XD's new finish that have popped up in this thread, though. All of the XD-45ACP's that have been produced were made with the melonite finish, which is essentially the same chemical process as what Glock uses with a different trade name. As I understand it, the plan is to implement this finish on the entire XD line. In fact, I know some people who have seen XD-9's with the new finish, but I don't think those are the norm in gunshops yet.

I've got the XD-45ACP, and I've been extremely pleased with it. The only downside that I've seen so far is that every time I take it to the range, I end up with a little crowd of people around me wanting to look at it and ask questions about it.

 

[Geno]

Practice and Familiarity

Practice and familiarity, IMHO, are the two crucial factors here. Give anyone any firearm and sufficient practice and they will develop acceptable skill and confidence.

When I purchased my first G17, I really struggled with accuracy. I was used to shooting almost exclusively 1911s. Then, I bought the XD-9. The hold is, to be certain, different on that pistol than for the G17, which is different than the 1911. All the same, I enjoy my assortment of pistols and don't plan on selling any of them.

Regarding the finish of the XD-45 ACP, it (at least on mine) is the same old cheap finish that was on my XD-9 Compact and on my XD-9 Sub-compact. The finish on my month-old XD-45 ACP slide, just left of the front sight is already worn to bare steel from concealed carry. The hard chrome process is what I anticipate for it.

Regarding natural pointablity, there is no perfect pistol, and so what makes perfect, as the saying goes, is practice, practice and more practice. As our CCW instructor told us, "If you want to shoot really well, shoot exclusively 1 pistol and shoot it a lot. For your back-up, carry smaller version the same as your primary. For example 1911 5" and 1911 4", or G17 and G19. That way, the ergonomics are the same and your magazines inter-change."

It makes sense, doesn't it?

Doc2005

 

[CajunBass]

Since Glock and Springfield are knocking head to head for the same market, why would anyone find it odd that Springfield would compare their product to Glock's? And why would you be surprised they would find the Glock to be lacking in someway?

 

['Card]

Regarding the finish of the XD-45 ACP, it (at least on mine) is the same old cheap finish that was on my XD-9 Compact and on my XD-9 Sub-compact.

If that's actually the case, then you need to call Springfield Armory and take advantage of your lifetime warranty on that firearm.

 

[doublebarrel]

I'm curious... How did you interpret this as an attack on Glock's ergonomics? I didn't see the word "Glock" (or even an inference) anywhere in that ad.

Well, your right. They never mentioned Glock by name. But it's kinda obvious to me. The design, the operating system, and the intended market of the XD pistol, all are either based on the Glock, or to compete with the Glock...

I put a Glock 17 on top of my Buckmark Standard - the grip angle is the same.

The tilt degree of the grip angle on a Glock is not a whole lot different from that of a 1911, compared to Luger and others. I don't have much trouble adjusting to the Glock angle myself(but it does feel a little different) when I bring up the muzzle. The Ruger Mark series, the Beretta Neos, and other more "ergonomical" designs, well, I guess it'll be either love'em or hate'em...

 

[doublebarrel]

I can correct some misconceptions about the XD's new finish that have popped up in this thread, though. All of the XD-45ACP's that have been produced were made with the melonite finish, which is essentially the same chemical process as what Glock uses with a different trade name. As I understand it, the plan is to implement this finish on the entire XD line. In fact, I know some people who have seen XD-9's with the new finish, but I don't think those are the norm in gunshops yet.

Can you post side by side pictures of the two finishes? I'd like to know the visual difference for one to tell them apart. AFAIK, the Tenifer finish is not really a finish, but a metal treatment. The black stuff on the Glock is some cheapo parkerizing that can wear off very easily. The real Tenifer is underneath it, a thin layer of steel hardened to diamond like hardness, and it doesn't have any special color to it...

 

['Card]

Finish, treatment... yeah. I was using the terms interchangably, and probably shouldn't have been.

In short, Tennifer (Glocks) and Melonite (SA's newer XD's) are both the same salt-bath nitriding case-hardening process. According to one source, Glock restricts the manufacturer of the Tennifer process from licensing it to other firearms manufacturers, so in other regions and markets it's sold as Tufftride or Melonite.

I'm sorry I don't have any pics of the two side by side. The only time I've been able to do a comparison like that was holding both in a gunshop. The Melonite-treated XD's appear to have a glossier, harder and 'blacker' finish (for a lack of a better description) than those that don't. The thing is, all of the XD-45ACP's have it, so if you go into a gunshop that sells both an XD-9 and an XD-45 and hold them up side by side, if they look the same, you've got one of the newer XD-9's with Melonite. If they look different, then you're holding an older XD-9 with the Burinal finish, which everyone has pretty much agreed was/is crap.

 

[brickboy240]

I have to agree with Springfield. I ditched my Glock 17 that I owned for 8 years, because of the better-feeling grip of the XD. Love the XD-40 and have had no problems with it at all (including no rust).

Since I shoot 1911s, Hi Powers and Sigs, the XDs grip seemed much more like the others and I don't miss the Glock at all.

- Brickboy240

 

[doublebarrel]

Finish, treatment... yeah. I was using the terms interchangably, and probably shouldn't have been.

I'd use them as synonyms too. They serve the same purpose for me, antirust. Now, you said the Melonite finished XD45ACPs have darker colors, since Melonite itself does not alter the color of the steel being treated, I wonder what that new black finish is. Obviously not the old Bruniral stuff, as you've mentioned that they don't look the same...

With the new finish, finally there're some good reasons to justify the price increase from HS2000 to Sprinfield Xd...

 

[doublebarrel]

By stating that thier "new" finish is better is the same as saying thier "old" finish is inferior. That is probably why they left that part out. I guess they could have just stated they had a new finish or something like that, but then again......it is all about the marketing spin.

Makes sense, very much agreed. This is similar to Gaston's refusal to admit anything has ever gone wrong with his baby, and never issue any formal recalls, just some thoughtful and free "upgrades"...

 

[Taurus44]

As our CCW instructor told us, "If you want to shoot really well, shoot exclusively 1 pistol and shoot it a lot. For your back-up, carry smaller version the same as your primary.

I couldn't agree more! That's why my XD-9 SC and XD-40 will soon be getting another stablemate... Surprisingly (or not), another XD! I'm still debating on the XD-9 Tactical or XD-45ACP Tactical.

Maybe I am just too used to the grip angle on the XDs now, but Glocks just feel wrong to me. That sucks, because I'd really like to convince myself to buy one. I just can't seem to do it when I see the shiny new XDs in the next case over

As for the finish issues, I am religious about keeping my guns cleaned and oiled. I have had no issues at all with either of my XDs, but I also don't carry them (yet) either.

 

[Euclidean]

The difference for me:

Assume a correct shooting stance. I look through the rear sight of a Glock. What do I see? I see the top of the slide.

Try the same thing with an XD, I see the front sight.

Do I expect everyone to have identical results? Nope.

In my book does this make the XD a much better choice for me? Yep.

 

[ruger270man]

with the grip angle of the Glock, you either love it or hate it..

I just happen to love my G34.

The XD isnt a bad gun, has nicer factory sights than the glock, but I dont like the trigger at all.

 

[trbon8r]

For the heck of it I rented one of the .40 XD pistols at my local range one day. I was thinking about buying one.

The pistol was accurate, fed 100% but the recoil and muzzle flip were somewhat harsh and annoying. This comes from a guy that isn't overly recoil sensitive considering I learned to shoot on a 586 S&W .357 Magnum revolver, and currently mostly shoots my Les Baer .45 ACP. I would like to shoot the .45 ACP version of the XD, but I doubt it would be any better.

 

[Euclidean]

The XD40 is one of the softest shooting pistols out there and the XD45 is even easier to handle.

 

[pauli]

i've shot glocks, and i've shot xds... and neither point as well for me as my k frames

or have anywhere near as nice triggers...

 

[Ankeny]

No gun has the perfect grip angle for everyone, but every gun has the perfect grip angle for someone.

Exactly right. Glocks point unnaturally high for me. I tried a Glock in IPSC Production Division, but I went to a CZ for pointability. Maybe 5-6 months of daily dry fire and 20,000 rounds of live fire just wasn't enough to get used to a Glock grip angle. My everyday carry gun is a Glock with a grip reduction.

 

[1911user]

off topic question deleted.

 

[brickboy240]

Another XD avdantage...

... is everyone aware that the dovetails for the front and rear sights on the XDs are the same as Sig pistols? That means that you can order Sig take-off night sights for around 20-30 bucks from CDNN and other retailers and they will go right on your XD! Hell of a deal, considering night sights on a Glock or other pistols run usually 100 bucks or more.

I did this with my XD-40 and love the set-up. 2 years later and the Sig night sights are still glowing very bright.

- Brickboy240

 

[JDGray]

I didnt see Glock mentioned in the add. I seen a comparison between Glocks grip angle & a 1911, and they were identical. When it came time for me to buy a 9mm, I wanted a XD9, but when I compared a CZ75B to the XD9, the more natural pointer for me was the CZ. Everyones different, so buy the gun that fits you.

 

[Rockstar]

Glock's share of the handgun market....making fun of the XD!

Just kidding, guys. The XD'll probably work out o.k., after they start finishing ALL their pistols with (surprise) Melonite (another name for Tenifer).

 

[Monkeybear]

"I'm curious... How did you interpret this as an attack on Glock's ergonomics? I didn't see the word "Glock" (or even an inference) anywhere in that ad."

I agree. They don't actually seem to be making fun of GLOCKs grip angle but rather just saying that their angle is better than anyone elses. Basically they are making fun of everyones grip angle and not just GLOCK.

 

[Mainsail]

I think ‘proper’ grip angle has to do with your shooting stance as well. If I shoot with my arms fully extended, I found the Glock pointed more naturally. Since I prefer to shoot with my elbows bent more sharply, putting the pistol closer to my face in a sort of modified Weaver stance, I prefer the grip angle on my Sig.

 

[WarMachine]

I find to no problem with the GLOCK grip angle if that's the gun that I am shooting for an extended period of time. However, it's the switching from gun to gun (something that I do at the range a lot) that has me aiming a bit too high when I switch back to the GLOCK.

However, my problem lies more with those damned finger grooves which do not fit my fingers...