Savage 30-06 Headspacing Issue

[blackwoodou]

I have a Savage Model 110 in 30-06 that I bought new in 2006. My gun is all factory; no modifications. I am getting into handloading and am experiencing headspacing issues. All my cases are full-length resized and the overall length and neck diameter are below specs. However, a lot of the ammo I reload won't fit in the chamber (aka, I can't close the bolt). Here are three different loads that either do not fit in my gun or fight extremely tight but are well within specs. All brass is once fired through my gun or my friend’s newer Savage 116:

Factory specs according to my Sierra reloading manual:
OAL 3.340 max
Neck diameter 0.340 max

Load #1:
Winchester brass
Hornady 165 gr Interlock
56.0 gr RL-17
OAL 3.207
Neck diameter 0.3315

Load #2:
Federal brass
Hornady 165 gr Interlock
52.2 gr 4064
OAL 3.220
Neck diameter 0.335

Load #3:
Remington brass
Hornady 165 gr Interlock
52.2 gr 4064
OAL 3.220
Neck diameter 0.330

Anyone else experience this? If so, how did you rectify it?

 

[MEHavey]

OAL is not your problem.

Are you screwing the sizing die all the way down to contact with the ram, and then 1/8 turn more?
AND... what lube are you using ?

 

[Reloadron]

Take a few of your cartridges the bolt won't close on and color them with a magic marker. Now try and chamber the round and look for scratching where the round has size issues.

Next and just as a footnote, if we look at a SAAMI drawing of a 30-06 Springfield Cartridge and Chamber note that only the Chamber has a "Head Space Specification", the cartridge doesn't.

This is where a good cartridge gauge comes in handy. When we full length re size a case we should be bumping the case shoulder back a little, matter of fact when the die is set up by the instructions we should be sizing the case back to right around factory specifications.

Anyway, a good start would be to blacken the case and see where it is having problems fitting, look for scratches or rub marks.

Ron

 

[PCCUSNRET]

MEHavy's advice should probably solve your
problem. This is especially true for the brass fired in your friends gun. The brass from yours should fit with just a bump of the shoulder (partial resizing). Was the brass fired in your gun from reloads or commercial ammo?

 

[entropy]

Usually this is from pushing the shoulder down too far when seating the bullet. This causes the shoulder to expand out at the base, resulting in difficult chambering. Once I set my seating depth, I make a little mark on the base of the ram where it pivots, giving me a reference point. (This is on an RCBS Jr.) I wipe the marks off with rubbing alcohol when I'm done, so I don't have lots of marks to cornfuze me!

 

[Edarnold]

Have you checked the length of the cases after sizing? If you have a minimum chamber you may be jamming the case mouth against the end of the chamber: if so, you need to trim the cases to the correct length, as specified in your loading manual. I have a target rifle with minimum chamber which will not chamber some new factory ammunition due to case length, and for this reason all cases for this gun must be trimmed to accommodate this particular chamber.

 

[Rem700CDLSF3006]

you are not bumping the shoulder back enough.If you can get a heaspace comparator guage and measure a fired case in your gun.Then adjust die till knocking about 002 off it and will also help brass life

 

[Zeke/PA]

Can you chamber a case after full length sizing?
If so, bullet seating depth might be your problem.

 

[MEHavey]

Update/Add to Post #2:

If you are crimping --- Do not crimp
(especially if you are doing so as part of one-step seating as this can/will deform the shoulder)

Again... highly unlikely the OP has an OAL problem.
(Chambering leverage will tend to push any overly-long bullet into the case with ease)

 

[R.W.Dale]

This is either a crimping issue

OR

Screws that are too long for the front scope base protruding into the bolt raceway slightly. Allowing the bolt to displace radially with the saami spec case web diameter but not enough for slightly larger fired cases.

I've seen this a couple of times before on savages.

 

[R.W.Dale]

This gun should be able to digest neck sized only cases from a Lee collet die with ease. There's no such thing as insufficient full length sizing if the brass was fired in this rifle for this weapon.

 

[MEHavey]

There's no such thing as insufficient full length sizing if the brass was fired in this rifle for this weapon

Sure there is....
Unsufficient (aka "partial") resizing still squeezes the side of the case in
-- which immediately results in a slightly longer case: The Banana Effect.

Take a just-fired case that will still rechamber, and partially resize it by
backing the sizing die slightly off -- then try to rechamber and see what happens

 

[R.W.Dale]

It's possible but that would preclude the common practice of neck sizing with a FL die backed off a turn or so.

 

[MEHavey]

common practice of neck sizing with a FL die backed off a turn or so

Which I also did for many years when young & poor w/only basic dies.

Once the OP starts squeezing the case, though -- banana toothpaste.




The problem most often comes up when the reloader doesn't screw the die
actually down into ram contact -- and/or when the press springs due to
stress/poor lube -- and leaves several/many thousandths gap during actual
sizing. Then it's the worst of both worlds unless he has a Stoney Point type
headspace gauge to measure the results.

 

[Sunray]

There's no headspace issue. It's a sizing issue.
"...or my friend’s..." That absolutely requires FL resizing, but I suspect you've pushed the shoulders down too far and there's a wee bulge on the shoulders. Should be visible.
OAL's are too short too. Close enough though.

 

[joem1945]

If the OP is crimping sometimes this will cause a vert slight bulge just behind the shoulder. Just enough to prevent chambering and difficult to see. Buy a max length case gauge. Check a fired case, size it, check again and trim if necessary. Load that case and check to see if it will chamber. If not you did something a bit wrong.

 

[gamestalker]

Welcome to The High Road Blackwookou.

Your problem is often a common one with new reloader's, and also has a simple fix.

Since your ammo is already loaded, there's no sense in ruining a bunch of primed brass, so I would proceed as follows;

Pull the loaded rounds, collect the powder, be sure it goes back into the correct canister.

At this point, you can either remove the decapping pin, and then proceed to FL size them correctly, or

"B" you can do, as I would personally do, that being to de-cap them during FL resizing, then re-prime them after the brass has been completely cleaned of lube. With bottle neck high powered rifle I won't risk contamination, so I always remove the primers if for some reason I need to lube them, I don't like live primers any where near lube or any other contaminate. With the primers removed, one can then easily rinse the lube off with some alcohol or other appropriate solution before re-priming.

Lets get this FL resizing step nailed.

If the brass wasn't fully resized, as in the shoulders made contact with the shoulder in the FL die. Up until, and prior to the shoulders making forced contact with the internal shoulder in the die, the shoulders actually get pushed up, thus causing the OP's issue. It usually takes some level of cam over, or felt contact with the shell holder to get the shoulders sufficiently bumped in a production chamber.

First off, adjust the dies so that it makes full hard contact with the shell holder with the ram at full extension. Then run a LUBED case through, chamber check it. If it still won't chamber, thread the die down a tad bit more and repeat chamber check. This is a step I like to approach slowly, so I can get the shoulders bumped only as much as is necessary, other wise premature incipient case head separations will present if the shoulders get bumped too much. I like my brass to fit with just a tad bit of resistance when I close the bolt, not a lot, just enough that I can detect contact with the shoulders in the chamber.

Once you get it adjusted correctly, lock the nut down so you'll never have to go through that process again for that rifle. However, if you're loading for multiple rifles, you have no choice but to perform this step with each rifle, each time.

No need to crimp unless you are loading for a firearm that needs the cartridge crimped, such as a machine gun, or a tubular magazine fed weapon. But crimping for a bolt gun is completely unnecessary and will usually only cause more frustration and aggravation.

GS

 

[Andrew Leigh]

To the OP.

I had a problem once with a set of dies in .308 that manifested the same problem as you are having.

The dies were set correctly and all appeared to be well. However I was to discover that there was insufficient lube on the inside of the neck of the case. On the downward stroke the dies were sizing perfectly but on the return stroke I could feel the resistance, the expander ball was pulling the necks back out defeating the "bumping back" of the shoulder. Adding more lube to the inside of the case neck (using a soft calibre size nylon brush to apply the lube) and slowing the stroke down solved the problem.

Chamber a sized case before priming and loading, saves a lot of work later.

 

[Zeke/PA]

With today's die/ shellholder combo correct headspace should be achieved when full length sizing.
You CAN'T "bump the shoulder back" with a precise die/ shell holder combo.
I have dies by R.C.B.S , Lachmiller, and Lyman.
Shellholders are R.C.B.S. and measure a precise .125" +or - .001" in depth>

 

[GooseGestapo]

Either you are crimping the bullets and bulging the shoulders/necks or the throat on the chamber is short/tight.
I had a Savage M110LH that did the same thing. I had to seat bullets below typical seating depths to get them to chamber. Typical seating depths are ~3.250". Not the Sierra max of 3.340", which is max for most '06 magazines.
Irrc, I used a 3.150" seat depth for most bullets in that rifle. Also, my long used go to load for a 150grn bullet in a b/a '06 of 52.0grn of IMR4064 was waaayy to hot for it. Had to drop back to 50.0grn and Hornady 150spt.
That rifle went "down the road". I also didn't care for the muzzle brake it wore.

 

[Edarnold]

We still have not had a response from the OP. I note the problem is "some" of his reloads not chambering AT All ( ' I cannot close the bolt') . With the camming power of a bolt action, this suggests more resistance than just the shoulder being long. I suggested before that in full-length resizing, it's easy to stretch the case length pulling the plug through ( see the .243Winchester as a prime example ). If the case mouth is up against the chamber end, you will not close the action: there is too much resistance. I know everyone wants to rattle on about shoulder bumping, but how about checking out the case length first? Find a sized case that won't chamber, trim back the length a bit with your pocket knife, if it chambers you have your answer.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I still would like to see the op check for scope mount screws impacting on the bolt head