SBR registration and sequence

[swAR15]

Hi all,

Do I get the correct sequence for registering and buying the SBR upper/lower?

1. Get a lower, send to be engraved

2. Register lower with BATFE

3. THEN buy upper.

In other words, I can't buy an SBR upper unless I am in possession of a ENGRAVED AND REGISTERED lower (if I have "regular" lower and/or complete rifles in the house).

Also, does anyone know the current average prices for the ATF certified engraver to do the work?

Thanks!

 

[General Geoff]

Your lower does not have to be engraved with anything if it already has a unique serial number.

You can own a short barreled upper if you have a pistol lower. But it can't have a vertical forward grip.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Your lower does not have to be engraved with anything if it already has a unique serial number.

That is not correct.

Title 2 firearms have to be engraved with the name of the manufacturer, same as Title 1 firearms.

Since you are taking a Title 1 firearm and "making" a Title 2 firearm out of it by virtue of filing a Form 1, an "Application to Make a Firearm", you become the manufacturer.

The name on the Form 1, and city/state need to be engraved on the receiver, since that is now the "maker", not whoever originally made the Title 1 firearm.

The Title 1 firearm no longer exists once there is a tax stamp issued. The only way to return the firearm to Title 1 status is to notify ATF and destroy the tax stamp according to their procedures.

So, if you take an AR made my Bushmaster for example, Bushmaster is the "maker" of the firearm as a standard Title 1 gun. Once you file the Form 1 to "make" an NFA firearm, the person on the Form 1 is now the maker and that needs to be on there. The name "Bushmaster" can stay, but it's meaningless from that point onward.

Now, if you buy an SBR straight from a company, like the SBR Tommy Gun for example, or a PS90 SBR from CMMG, then THEY are the maker, and the gun is transferred on a Form 4. In that case the maker, CMMG for example, will be engraved on the gun.

If you look at a CMMG PS90 SBR you will see their name engraved, in addition to FNUSA's name. That's because CMMG "made" a Title 2 firearm where none existed before.


This is one of those goofy fine print things that doesn't really have any real world application, but can cause you immense amounts of hell if you happen to run afoul of Johnny Law.

 

[General Geoff]

I'll take your word for it, since I'm not intimately familiar with title II manufacturing regulations. I stand corrected.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I'll take your word for it, since I'm not intimately familiar with title II manufacturing regulations. I stand corrected.

It's probably one of those things that in the real world never matters. But, if you for whatever reason were to run afoul of ATF, it could bite you.

All that said, there is at least one "opinion letter" that you will see now and then from ATF Tech Branch that seems to indicate it's NOT required.

However, there are ATF opinion letters that say it IS required, that came out after the other one.

As usual, this is a train wreck from the same agency that once made every shoestring in the US an illegal machinegun for 6 months......


Caution is the best route. Engraving is 50 bucks maybe. Better safe than sorry when dealing with this insane rogue agency.

 

[swAR15]

TexasRifleman, is the sequence of events I posted correct for getting SBR legal? Thanks.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yessir. Don't buy the upper til everything else is done. That's the safe approach.

And engrave before the tax stamp issued. There is no law against engraving whatever you want on a gun pretty much, so you never spend a single moment with an un-engraved NFA receiver.

Again, paranoia but knowing the ATF, it's the smart move in my opinion.

As for engraving, since you are engraving BEFORE it's an NFA weapon you have a lot more choices in who can engrave.

If you wait til after it's an NFA weapon you can only send the receiver to certain folks.

50-60 bucks ought to get it done. There are some regulations on how deep the engraving needs to be, how high the letters, etc.

Google "SBR engraving" and you should find plenty.

 

[swAR15]

Thanks TexasRifleman! I agree - better have all ducks lined up, and avoid any potential BATFE issues (especially with current prez, AG and Congress...)

 

[CleverNickname]

If you're making an AR15 lower that's a rifle into an SBR, then don't get the upper until you get the approved form 1. However, if you want to make an AR15 lower that's a pistol into an SBR, there's no problem with possessing a short upper, because pistols have no barrel length limits. Just use a pistol receiver extension and don't attach a stock until you get the approved form 1.
Building a pistol into an SBR has the advantage of letting you shoot the gun as a pistol while you wait for approval.

 

[LiquidTension]

http://www.orion-arms.com/new/

They do excellent engraving. Under the trigger is a good place if you don't want to look at the engraving.

Rifleman is correct - get it engraved before you get approval on your Form 1. If you find a good deal on an upper that you might not be able to get again, ask your dealer if he would be willing to hold on to it at the shop until your Form 1 comes back. Otherwise, wait until you have the stamp in hand. You could send them off on the same day and still be safe, ATF is taking a few months to approve forms these days.