Okay. This is a situation of disappointment for me, both for my assertions and for the fact that I even have to bring this up, but I gotta know.
Before I go on, I have to say that I recall from everywhere I've gone, everything I've read, everyone else I've asked has said that rifle barrels must be at least 16", either as one whole piece, or by the barrel with a permenantly attached muzzle device to make it all one piece.
But I must digress briefly.
So I go to our local outdoor range, Range 1 (www.range-1.com), since I haven't been there since I used to go shooting with pops. It's been at least ten years now, but it pretty much looks the same as it always has. Anyway, they have a shop attached to it which isn't that extensive in selection or ammunition, but it does have an impressive AR selection of which the owner has built himself. I showed up at the opportune time where no one was there, at all. The only guy there was some older gentleman sitting behind the counter reading a magazines or catalog of some sort in total silent solitude. The type of situation where all you could hear was the ceiling fan creak slowly in its oscillating revolutions on its axis. No music, no radio, no TV. The goodoldboy behind the counter goes through the brief greeting routine, and says I'm welcome to look around. After asking him the rates, I'm gestured to cant my eyes over to the information paper tray, and become somewhat dismayed for what I find. $15 for an all-day pass at the range, but no hourly rates. I express my chagrin at this to him, at which he shrugs and explains to me that it's just how it is, and that hunters sometimes show up to put one bullet down the range and then pack up. I decide that this is indeed just how it is and how it's been, though I do remember there being hourly rates. Of course you could rent things you don't have or didn't bring enough supply of, such as ear plugs, eye-protection, plinking ammo, or even rent a few old long arms on the rack on top of the fee. Anyway, my first question follows: Is this normal for anyone else out there lucky enough to have outdoor (pistol/rifle/shotgun) ranges? Since this is the only range I know of, am I simply being a newbie to be put off by a cover-all $15 fee?
Anyway, he points out the array of AR's on the wall after I ask him if they can service them (owning a DPMS M4 type), telling me about how the owner is an AR-smith and can do almost anything I ask of. I notice that there are some SBR's there with an "NFA/Class III" rules apply, etc. Like, M4 types with 14.5" barrels with standard A2 flash hiders, and a 10.5" commando version. I casually mention that I've heard of people buying AR's that come with that full-legal length 16" barrel with an A2 who replace them with 14.5" barrels and 1.5" flash suppressors for a look closer to authentic than before. He nods and agrees, saying that as long as the muzzle device makes the barrel 16", then it's perfectly legal. I follow up with, "Yeah, but you need to permenantly attach them to the barrel by pinning/welding them," to which he replies, "No, that's not necessary. As long as you have it installed, or screwed on, it's fine. It doesn't need to be pinned or welded." This runs completely contrary with what I've read for the past several years. When I asked him if he was certain, he commented that it's true, and that the shop checked in with the Greensboro office of the ATF to confirm the same inquiry made by some soldiers with personal weapons that wanted to keep the original 14.5" barrel look without having to permenantly fix a muzzle device on it to achieve the legal length and said that some gun-law savvy lawyer that is friends with the owner informed them that it wasn't necessary, apparantly after confirming it with the ATF. At this, I'm completely put off from the place and lose all desire to proceed any further inquiry to spend my time and money there. We stare off at each other as if to butt heads, then he offers me the attorney's name, and when I ask him if I can get an office number to reach him, he replies with, "I'm not about to give you his number. I can give you the number to the ATF, though." By this time, I know he's irritated at me, and probably pegged me as a know-it-all type who likes to test people on their gun-fu knowledge (which I do on occasion, but only at actual gun shops, like the fools at Guns Plus in Spring Lake), though I'm equally irritated at him and pegged him to be an uninformed dealer of bad or assumed info. I accept that, get the number, and walk out after muttering something about him being very helpful.
Now I "know" I'm right and he's wrong, but he sat there as convinced as the sky is blue. So maybe it's a matter of conflicting egos here, but I want to be sure, for the sake of my better knowledge, and so I can be sure to correct that establishment and make sure that they aren't telling lies and encouraging others to violate federal law. Maybe I've been told wrong all this time? Afterall, everything I know about this subject is from second-hand information (mostly on the internet like the AR-15 forums, AK-47.net, vender FAQ's, etc), just like this guy got his intel from someone else that wasn't directly from the source. Maybe I need to actually look at the ATF rules in writing. But then again, maybe some of you can help me out with this.
Before I go on, I have to say that I recall from everywhere I've gone, everything I've read, everyone else I've asked has said that rifle barrels must be at least 16", either as one whole piece, or by the barrel with a permenantly attached muzzle device to make it all one piece.
But I must digress briefly.
So I go to our local outdoor range, Range 1 (www.range-1.com), since I haven't been there since I used to go shooting with pops. It's been at least ten years now, but it pretty much looks the same as it always has. Anyway, they have a shop attached to it which isn't that extensive in selection or ammunition, but it does have an impressive AR selection of which the owner has built himself. I showed up at the opportune time where no one was there, at all. The only guy there was some older gentleman sitting behind the counter reading a magazines or catalog of some sort in total silent solitude. The type of situation where all you could hear was the ceiling fan creak slowly in its oscillating revolutions on its axis. No music, no radio, no TV. The goodoldboy behind the counter goes through the brief greeting routine, and says I'm welcome to look around. After asking him the rates, I'm gestured to cant my eyes over to the information paper tray, and become somewhat dismayed for what I find. $15 for an all-day pass at the range, but no hourly rates. I express my chagrin at this to him, at which he shrugs and explains to me that it's just how it is, and that hunters sometimes show up to put one bullet down the range and then pack up. I decide that this is indeed just how it is and how it's been, though I do remember there being hourly rates. Of course you could rent things you don't have or didn't bring enough supply of, such as ear plugs, eye-protection, plinking ammo, or even rent a few old long arms on the rack on top of the fee. Anyway, my first question follows: Is this normal for anyone else out there lucky enough to have outdoor (pistol/rifle/shotgun) ranges? Since this is the only range I know of, am I simply being a newbie to be put off by a cover-all $15 fee?
Anyway, he points out the array of AR's on the wall after I ask him if they can service them (owning a DPMS M4 type), telling me about how the owner is an AR-smith and can do almost anything I ask of. I notice that there are some SBR's there with an "NFA/Class III" rules apply, etc. Like, M4 types with 14.5" barrels with standard A2 flash hiders, and a 10.5" commando version. I casually mention that I've heard of people buying AR's that come with that full-legal length 16" barrel with an A2 who replace them with 14.5" barrels and 1.5" flash suppressors for a look closer to authentic than before. He nods and agrees, saying that as long as the muzzle device makes the barrel 16", then it's perfectly legal. I follow up with, "Yeah, but you need to permenantly attach them to the barrel by pinning/welding them," to which he replies, "No, that's not necessary. As long as you have it installed, or screwed on, it's fine. It doesn't need to be pinned or welded." This runs completely contrary with what I've read for the past several years. When I asked him if he was certain, he commented that it's true, and that the shop checked in with the Greensboro office of the ATF to confirm the same inquiry made by some soldiers with personal weapons that wanted to keep the original 14.5" barrel look without having to permenantly fix a muzzle device on it to achieve the legal length and said that some gun-law savvy lawyer that is friends with the owner informed them that it wasn't necessary, apparantly after confirming it with the ATF. At this, I'm completely put off from the place and lose all desire to proceed any further inquiry to spend my time and money there. We stare off at each other as if to butt heads, then he offers me the attorney's name, and when I ask him if I can get an office number to reach him, he replies with, "I'm not about to give you his number. I can give you the number to the ATF, though." By this time, I know he's irritated at me, and probably pegged me as a know-it-all type who likes to test people on their gun-fu knowledge (which I do on occasion, but only at actual gun shops, like the fools at Guns Plus in Spring Lake), though I'm equally irritated at him and pegged him to be an uninformed dealer of bad or assumed info. I accept that, get the number, and walk out after muttering something about him being very helpful.
Now I "know" I'm right and he's wrong, but he sat there as convinced as the sky is blue. So maybe it's a matter of conflicting egos here, but I want to be sure, for the sake of my better knowledge, and so I can be sure to correct that establishment and make sure that they aren't telling lies and encouraging others to violate federal law. Maybe I've been told wrong all this time? Afterall, everything I know about this subject is from second-hand information (mostly on the internet like the AR-15 forums, AK-47.net, vender FAQ's, etc), just like this guy got his intel from someone else that wasn't directly from the source. Maybe I need to actually look at the ATF rules in writing. But then again, maybe some of you can help me out with this.
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