School me on silencers in Washington State

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leadcounsel

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I just moved here, and need a beginner's explanation on getting and using silencers... For starters -

Cost
State and Federal paperwork
Transferability between firearms (pistol and pistol; rifle and rifle; pistol and rifle...)? Meaning, could I get a .40cal can and use it on multiple .40cal pistols? Could I use the .40 can on a 9mm pistol? Could I use a .308 can on a smaller caliber pistol?

Now, when I move from Washington, can I take it with me, or how do I dispose of it?
 
Ranb! Ranb! Paging THR Member Ranb!

You may as well send him a PM. He's in Washington and has forgotten more than I'll ever know. When you contact him, thank him; he was instrumental in getting Washington to allow suppressors by law. He's the type of advocate that we all should strive to be.

Also, this will be/should be moved to the NFA sub-forum.
Far too vast and general of a subject to answer with specificity. The most inexpensive .22lr can might cost down around $150 or so, the most expensive, all titanium big bore rifle cans are going to land in the $2k range.
State and Federal paperwork
State: ??
Federal: ATF Form 4: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf
Transferability between firearms (pistol and pistol; rifle and rifle; pistol and rifle...)?
Many times, yes. Google 'Nielsen Device'. This is a component that pistols with a locked breech design will have to utilize for effective operation. However, an aluminum .22lr suppressor is not going to any good on an AR15. The pressures produced from a .223 round would destroy the rimfire can. This also goes for most suppressors that are designed specifically for pistols. Mount a 9mm pistol suppressor on a .30cal rifle, and say goodbye to that suppressor. Just know what your getting and how you plan to use it.
Meaning, could I get a .40cal can and use it on multiple .40cal pistols? Could I use the .40 can on a 9mm pistol?
Yes.
Could I use a .308 can on a smaller caliber pistol?
Yes, but look up the Nielsen Devise I spoke of. It is required so that a non-blowback operated pistol can still cycle properly. Here is a video with animation that will give you a tutorial on this device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QewB1jCNwzw
Now, when I move from Washington, can I take it with me, or how do I dispose of it?
You could either take it with you, or PM me, I'll dispose of it. :evil:
 
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Add $200 to the cost for the tax stamp.

I'd also recommend reading the laws (you can google them) to make sure what the laws are. No offense to CoRoMo, but if he makes any incorrect statements and you follow his advice, it is YOU who will pay the price. That said, asking on the forums can help guide you as you look through the laws.
 
You can have a silencer in WA if you have the federal stamp. You can have any legal firearm here, but there are restrictions on FA.

If the firearm is Fed legal, it is WA legal...except for some extra restrictions on FA. RCW 9.41 is your friend.
 
Last I heard, it is legal to own one here, but illeagal to use.....or something liberal sounding like that. I could be wrong, though. On a side note, did you know potatos can be used as a one-time silencer?
 
They changed that law wannabe. In May of this year, IIRC. You can legally use one if you legally own it.
 
You can have a silencer in WA if you have the federal stamp. You can have any legal firearm here, but there are restrictions on FA.

If the firearm is Fed legal, it is WA legal...except for some extra restrictions on FA. RCW 9.41 is your friend.
No sbs or sbr either. WA is a pretty good state though. I liked it enough to just stay here after I got out of the army. I miss the South, but living in a functional democracy is nicer than the weather and the people are smarter too. Would be too hard to go back now. Learn the RCW. In WA, if it isn't expressed as illegal in there, then it is legal plain and simple.

One thing I'd recommend is to get a trust. An NFA trust. I went to an estate lawyer in Bellevue or Kirkland, "Northwest Gun Law Group". Nice to have a trust, now that I know more about it I'd want one NFA or no.

Lots of dealers here too. Before this year there were like two. Now it is hard to find a dealer that doesn't sell suppressors too. If suppressors ever get mainstream, it will probably happen here first. I grew up in NFA states and they were never as popular as they are here --and all this just months after the law to use them was passed.
 
If you study the WA law as to FA it is really quite interesting...at first (over 40 years ago) I thought nothing about FA until they changed the law. When they changed the law, they put some very different wording in it...FA is not allowed...kind of....very slippery language used.

Yes, did think about sbr, sbs eithet, because I do not own, and have never had a desire for, either. Maybe, if we could actually get a gun friendly Governor, and a gun friendly legislature at the same time...we could fix some of the problems with 9.41...like get completely rid of Lowreys legesy. a lot of his garbage went the way of the courts, the rest we need to just repeal.
 
leadcounsel said:
Transferability between firearms (pistol and pistol; rifle and rifle; pistol and rifle...)? Meaning, could I get a .40cal can and use it on multiple .40cal pistols? Could I use the .40 can on a 9mm pistol? Could I use a .308 can on a smaller caliber pistol?

Now, when I move from Washington, can I take it with me, or how do I dispose of it?

The Suppressor itself is the registered "firearm". It can be used on any firearm that you can reasonably attach it to. As mentioned above, some cans just aren't going to work on some guns. .308 cans are generally big and heavy, while they will "suppress" a smaller caliber pistol, they could easily impede reliable function, even with a Nielsen device (if one existed for them).

Yes you can move it out of state to any other state that allows suppressors. No paperwork needed on the Federal side of things. Silencers and AOWs are unique in this aspect, all other Title II firearms require a 5320.20 to be approved by the ATF prior to transporting the item interstate.
 
There's quite a few store round here that have silencers in stock including Surplus ammo Arms in Lakewood, and iirc champion arms Bellevue. $200 on top of the suppressor cost and tax for the federal tax stamp. Suppressors are now legally owned and used, and most ranges are now allowing them after learning the new laws. You can garuntee a $500-$2k+ hit to your wallet from a 22 to higher quality.

Sent vs Mytouch 4G
 
Silencers cost from about $150 to $3500. The cheapest are those for 22lr made from aluminum and not suitable for machine guns. The most expensive are those for 50 bmg rifles. A silencer for a 223 Remington or 308 Winchester will be from 800 to 1200 bucks.

While some states require that a silencer be registered, this is required for all silencers in the USA even those owned by the police and military. WA State law makes it a gross misdemeanor to use a silencer on a firearm unless is it registered. Bill 1016 was passed in 2011 and went into effect in July allowing use of registered silencers.

There are no WA state registration forms required other than the usual form to fill out as with any firearm you buy from a dealer. You are not required to buy your silencer from a dealer unless it is being purchased across state lines.

Federal forms/laws. The ATF is required to approve the transfer of any silencer as long as the forms are filled out correctly and you live in a state that allows them. You use the ATF form 4 to buy and the ATF form 1 to make. Assuming you buy from a dealer, he or she will ensure the ATF form 4 is filled out correctly. You must have the form signed by your local sheriff,; this signature is just to indicate that the sheriff knows of no reason why you are not allowed to own a silencer. Is it something left over from the 1930's when there were no instant background checks. The ATF form 4 is sent in along with two passport sized photos, form 5330.20 (certify yourself as legal resident or citizen) two finger print cards and a check for $200. Approval takes about 4 months now. If you use a trust to own the silencer for you, the sheriff's signature, mug shots and fingerprints are not required. A trust allows multiple owners, even across state lines, like husband wife or friends that can all possess the silencer.

The feds only care that you pay the tax and do not use the silencer to commit a crime. The ATF will never ever pay you a visit just because you own a silencer. You only pay the $200 tax once for each silencer. You can put it on any firearm you want. Just ensure the bullet is smaller than the bore and it will handle the pressure. Many people buy a 308 silencer to use on anything 308 winchester and smaller, like 5.56. Some pistol silencers will work well on low pressure subsonic rifle loads also. One 22lr silencer will work on every 22 lr pistol and rifle you own as long as they are threaded the same (usually 1/2-28). If the silencer needs repairs, you can not make replacement parts yourself, it has to be sent to a licensed manufacturer for repair or you pay another $200 tax to make the part yourself.

Silencers are legal for civilians in AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MI, MD, MO, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. Unlike SBR, SBR, DD and machine guns, you do not have to tell the ATF prior to taking them across state lines. Taking them in your checked luggage on the airlines is just as easy and routine as with other guns; just declare them and put them unloaded in a locked gun case or suitcase. If you have a permanent change of address in another state, the ATF wants to know (I think).

Guns are still loud even with a good silencer on them. Only a suppressed rifle with subsonic ammo is going to be quiet. Silencers only reduce muzzle blast noise and do nothing for action noise or bullet flight noise. But I make silencers for my high powered rifles as they can make my 338 ultra magnum safe to shoot without ear plugs. Check out http://silencertests.com/results.htm for noise levels. Check out http://www.silencertests.com/links.htm for silencer manufacturers.

Some people disagree, but I think silencers are awesome mufflers that greatly enhance the shooting experience. I just do not want to shoot unsuppressed anymore. :)

Http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertalk.com are the two best resources I know of on the internet for silencers. Please post any other questions you might have.


Ranb
 
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If the firearm is Fed legal, it is WA legal...except for some extra restrictions on FA. RCW 9.41 is your friend.

I wish that were true, but it is not. RCW 9.41.190 restricts SBS and SBR to police, military and those civilians that registered them prior to July 1, 1994. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.190

Representative Blake pushed the silencer bill through the legislature in 2011 and is doing the same with bill 2099 for SBR and SBS in the 2012 session. He needs our support.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2099&year=2011 Please write (not e-mail) to your Representative and urge them to support the bill.

Ranb
 
We need to change the name to Muffler just so we don't bother the anti's.

The public watches movies and silencers make no noise on TV so they have to be bad. Mufflers keep things somewhat quiet so they must be good. ;)

I'm sure you have heard comments such as that car or motorcycle needs a muffler.
 
Silencer and muffler are the bona fide legal terms for devices that suppress gun noise. I think we need to take back the word silencer from the idiots out there that think they are bad. :)

Ranb
 
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