School me or link me, please: basic info on shotgun ammo...

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Rick O'Shea

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
200
Location
Georgia, USA
Greetings all,

Pending shipping time, I am soon to be the proud papa of a police trade-in Mossberg 500 ATP.

I'm in need of some info on the basic types of shotgun ammo for my purposes:

- Initial purpose will be Run The Gun, Learn The Gun.
To this end, I bought a 100-pack of WallyWorld Winchester birdshot. I went looking for 00 Buck, which I understood to be the SD standard, but it's dove season in Georgia, so the best bulk deals are for birds. I think it's described on the box as "7 1/2 shot".

- Ultimate purpose will be home defense. The two scenarios I'm concerned about are a home invasion (we've had a surge of those in town lately), and the Strange Noise In The Backyard situation.
The last time the latter situation happened, I flicked on the porch light, and went out to see what the deal was. About that time I realized: 1) I had just drawn attention to and illuminated myself, and: 2) I was in my underwear, and armed with no more than my bare hands and said underwear's contents.
Thank goodness it turned out to be a branch falling onto the roof of the shed.

Never again.

Now, I live in a suburban neighborhood with neighbors on both sides, separated by wooden privacy fences. To the back is a fence, maybe 50-100 yards of woods, then a main road.
I have justified the shotgun purchase to my wife by telling her (truthfully!) that a handgun round is simply too risky to be discharging under these conditions.

Now... (pauses for breath; sorry folks...)

Is birdshot a better choice than 00 buck in my situation? What is "7 1/2" shot? Are there a bunch of other types of birdshot (or buckshot) that would be better suited? How about recoil (bird vs. buck)?

A quick summary of ammo types and/or a link thereto and I should be able to make a determination on my own, but I'm always open to the suggestions of those wiser than I (in this case, everyone).

Thanks, THR'ers, you're the best.
Rick
 
Don't use birdshot man, go with 00 buck. The only time I think you should consider birdshot is if you live in an apartment or condo. I live in a condo and still have 00 buck for my shotgun, though. It's still not going to penetrate like a handgun round would.
 
Here's a quick rundown on different types of ammo (7.5 vs. 8 shot, etc.)

http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

Basically, you've got three types of standard loads:

Birdshot. As the name implies, used largely for birds (and clay shooting.) It's packed full of a whole bunch of little lead/steel balls. The larger the number, the smaller the size of the individual balls. So, size 8 shot is smaller than 7.5, which in turn is smaller than 6, etc. The advantages are that you have a whole bunch of projectiles (300-400) so it increases your odds of a hit over short-medium range. Disadvantages are that each individual piece of lead/steel doesn't have much power in itself, and the powr it does have trails off rapidly.

Buckshot. Buckshot is like birdshot, in that it's "shot", a whole bunch of balls in a cup. The difference is that there's only a handful (like 9 00 Buck in your average (2-3/4) shell). The individual balls themselves are a lot larger, so they each have more force. On the other hand, there's only 9, so you've got to aim (point) a little better or they'll all spread to hell..

Slug Here you're talking about one huge bullet. It's a 470 grain (for a 1 ounce slug). The Advantage? The most terminal power. The disadvantage? It's only 1 piece of metal flying downrange, so you've really got to aim.

As far as best round for home defense, the subject has been discussed ad nauseum, do a search, you'll find plenty of threads. 00 Buck is the "classic" but when you start talking about penetration, the general concensus is that #1 buck or #4 buck are pretty good - good shot count, enough penetration power, but not going to barreling through walls in an apartment complex.

As far as recoil goes, the slug is greater than the buck is greater than the bird, generally (though Remmy does make reduced recoil buckshot loads). It's a matter of physics - the shot is pushed out by an explosive charge behind it. Witha slug, you've got one solid wall of lead pushing the explosive charge back at you - more force. With the buckshot, you've got some more space between the shot, so there's not as much gas pushing back at you. And with the bird shot (just a whole bunch of tiny pellets) as it travels down the barrel there's more space between the shot, more room for gas to escape, so consequently less recoil pushing back at you.

Hope this helps, and I'm sure others will chime in with more info.
 
For a rundown on basic shotgun stuff, try here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2c.shotguns.htm , or search around here on this forum using the SEARCH THIS FORUM feature.

The Winchester 'bulk pack' may be a bad start, some folks have reported problems with hulls sticking in the chamber when fired. If you don't have that problem that's good, but if you do you should probably asssume it's the ammo and try another brand. No matter what, clean your gun first thing when it arrives, with particular attention to the chamber. Bird shot is good for training and practice, and good for shooting birds and small varmints. At very close range (a few feet) it CAN be lethal to humans, but the range has to be close enough for the shot not to have spread much beyond a bore size cluster.

More applicable to larger targets at close range is buckshot, IMHO. I use 00 at Casa Lapin, but I have no nearby neighbors. Given your situation you might want to consider #4 buck, or some of the larger pellet 'small shot' (as opposed to buckshot) loads like Dead Coyote #2. 'Close range' will vary with your gun's ability to pattern the load of your choice, the 870s in use here will keep a full load of Hornady TAP 00 on a sheet of 8X11" notebook paper at 25 yards. Beyond 25 yards there are slugs available in the SideSaddles on each gun.

A goodly amount of research, experimentration/patterning, training and practice is in order before declaring yourself ready to repel boarders with a shotgun. Instructor Louis Awerbuck describes the shotgun as 'a thinking man's weapon' for many different reasons- be sure you understand at least some of those reasons before you have to face those bumps in the night with shotgun in hand.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc
 
Excellent information and some truly great links, gentlemen. Thank you.

Mr. Lapin, my apologies as well as my thanks; I usually run a search first, but in this case had the thoughts rolling around in my mind, so I just banged out the post.

I purchased the Winchester bulk pack only because I had heard that the sticking problem was generally an 870 issue.
They had Federal for the same price, but the old gunnie behind the counter said that he had had better experience with the Winchester than the Federal. (yes, this was Walmart - the nice thing about the Columbus/Ft. Benning area is that the sporting goods section is usually manned by a U.S. Army retiree).
If I have a problem with the Mossberg, I'll go back and get the Federal, or better yet, look for some of the shot types you've recommended, so that I can train with the recoil factor that I'll be using.

Yes, sir, the first step is always takedown, cleaning and manual of arms. Then patterning, training and lots of rounds downrange.
The gun is a 20" barrel with rifle sights, which I thought was a good first choice.
In other words, I know I have to aim the thing.

Thanks again for all the help. I feel fortunate to live at a time when the experience of my betters is literally at my fingertips.

Rick
 
No apologies necessary, Rick. Lots of folks miss the search function in all the clutter on the forum front page (and vB's search is a little kludgy, since it only works with words of four letters or more), I just wanted to be sure you knew it was an option.

Several of the 870s here are ex-somethingorothers (in fact I haven't ever bought a new 870), no reason not to offer a good home to Cinderella shotgun no matter the brand name 8^). Most all ex-agency shotguns still have a lot of life left in them and are often a better buy in the 'bang for the buck' department than new ones. Sounds as if you have a good one, I hope that turns out to be the case.

Regards,

lpl/nc
 
Some folks have problems with the Winchester bulk pack ammo. I have a had an empty stick a couple of times, so I use the Federal Bulk.

As previous posters have said, BIRDshot for birds/small game and those ultra-dangerous "Clays". BUCKshot for medium game (deer, etc) if allowed in your area, Slugs for serious use...something needs to go down NOW!

As another of our Shotgun Forum Gurus (Dave McCracken) says..BA/UU/R

Buy Ammo Use Up Repeat

Go ahead, just try to wear out that "new-to-you" Mossberg. My wager is that you can't. You will probably find out that the shotgun is in the carried a lot, shot a little class.
 
Absolutely agree on the BA/UU/R concept.

If the Winchester bulk doesn't give me any trouble, I noticed they had it in cases of 250 for under $40. :)

I also just ordered a variety of slugs from Midway (low-recoil; no sense getting too stupid too soon).

I think this is going to be fun...
 
federal tactical 00 buck. Tru flite reduced recoil. How much is your life worth?

Defensive loads should be the best money can buy. For bulk? S&B 00 12 pel buck. Nice and cheap. Very stout. Can be used for defense, and patterns ok. 12 Pells mean more lead downrange. 2.75 but longer than avg 2.75 rounds, so one less in the mag. YMMV
 
Pump guns rule becuase they are very clean, and few things are more work than cleaning a dirty semi auto shotgun. The pump gun doesn't allow burning gases into the action, so you pretty much have to clean the barrel and spray some lube into the action after you shoot it.

You should get a manual from Mossberg and take down the action. It is not a task that presents itself logically. Cop guns, especially shotguns, are known for less than exemplary maintenance. The action may have old, dried up oil in it, not to mention other things. Many of these guns were stored in patrol cars and were not any particular officer's responsibility to maintain.

Next, get two brand new wire brushes and a can of brake parts cleaner or carbuerator cleaner. Remove the barrel and spend a few minutes scrubbing the chamber with a new brush and the solvent. The reason is that the plastic from shotgun shells can adhere to the chamber. Over time, this forms a glue with the old oil, and it can make it almost impossible to extract a case after you fire it. Hoppes and other powder solvents won't work for this task because they don't attack plastics. GunScrubber used to be good for this, but I haven't tried it since they changed the formula. They say it does not attack plastics so aggressively now, so it may not do the job.

The link to Boxof Truth is worth your time. They are very clear on the subject of defensive shotgun loads: birdshot won't work. Their tests indicated that it had terrible penetration, I think they referenced medical studies that showed fine shot would most likely not penetrate the chest cavity. I emailed them a while ago asking about turkey loads (known for large pellets and heavy shot charges) and they said they tried that, too. It also didn't work.

Magnum shotgun loads are different than magnum handgun and rifle loads. Generally, a magnum shotgun load has a heavier charge of shot than a standard load. A 12 gauge, 2 3/4" standard buckshot load has 9 pellets. The 2 3/4" magnum load has 12 pellets. The weight of the shot charge is what changes shotgun recoil. Your gun should have no problem with them, but it's worth making sure.

Federal low recoil "tactical" buckshot is good stuff. Slugs will blast through pretty much anything. Box Of Truth has a few examples of what a 12 gauge slug can do. Keep in mind that any buckshot load is also capable of overpenetration, but if you want it to work, you need to use buckshot.

Pattern the loads. This is expensive and invloves lots of recoil, but you need to see how the load performs. Get some kind of target frame and some newspaper. Use a target dot or spray paint a 3" dot on the newspaper. Measure your distance, point the gun at the dot, and shoot. Change the paper for five shots and you'll be able to see how the load performed. If it didn't strike the paper in a sort of round group, try a different load. Shotguns are funny. It's a good gun, and you may use a quality load, but they just don't work well together.

Whatever you do, hold it tight against your shoulder. If it's loose, it will accelerate into your shoulder and it will leave a mark.
 
Thanks again for all the information, folks.

I've downloaded a video from... somewhere... that shows the takedown of a Mossberg 500 very nicely.
I had planned to do a good clean-and-inspect along with this anyway, but will certainly take your advice to pay special attention to the chamber.

After a little break-in period (for me as much as the gun), I will pattern to find a good buckshot load suited to the gun, and use that for SD purposes.

I use Buffalo Bore LSWCHP .38 Sp ammo ($1.00/rd!) in my carry snubbie, so I know that protection of life and loved ones is no time to bargain hunt for ammo...

Once again, I appreciate all the responses.
Rick
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top