School's recommended response to shooter...

[jefnvk]

So, today I got the school's list of what to do in case of a shooter. Unfortunately, it does not list two to the chest and one to the head, but I was quite suprised at what I read.

After the normal hide in a room, lock doors and cover windows, which isn't bad advice regardless if you have a gun or not, and the slighly distrubing 'if there are bodies around you, playing dead may be effective', FIGHTING BACK is actually recommended above doing what the shooter says.

If you are caught in an open area in the residence hall, you may choose to fight back. This is dangerous, but depending on your situation, this could be your last option

If you are caught by the intruder and are not going to fight back, obey all commands and do not look the intruder in the eyes.

http://www.mtu.edu/emergency/intruders.html

Needless to say, I am halfway suprised, but glad.

 

[41magsnub]

If you are caught in an open area in the residence hall, you may choose to fight back.

with?

 

[bluestarlizzard]

"with?"

probably your good looks and charm.

 

[KBintheSLC]

41magsnub...

...and no man would be found dead with a 9mm. Actually, a man knows he WOULD be found dead with a 9mm, because a 9mm is a .45 set on stun, and real men do not believe in stun.

Your joking right? Why are there so many dead people that prove otherwise?

Back on topic... this is why CCW should be legal on school property.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

So go ahead and shoot the guy and when they ask you why you were carrying on campus refer to this leaflet.

"I assumed you meant fight back on even grounds. You didn't really mean to suggest to students that they fight an armed killer with their bare hands, did you?"

Hell, the only thing worse than taking a knife to a gunfight is taking nothing at all!

If you are caught in an open area in the residence hall, you may choose to fight back. This is dangerous, but depending on your situation, this could be your last option

 

[tmajors]

"with?"

probably your good looks and charm.

Ah crap stupid tripod pic hosting

I might have to use my karate on you mister...hu ha

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Your joking right?

http://www.arthurshall.com/x_2007_manly_firearms.shtml

 

[Standing Wolf]

What moral and intellectual cowards!

 

[bluestarlizzard]

'if there are bodies around you, playing dead may be effective.'
slightly disturbing? lets not beat around the bush. that is disturbing. it may be effective. but still fully quilifys as all out disturbing.

 

[41magsnub]

41magsnub...

Quote:
...and no man would be found dead with a 9mm. Actually, a man knows he WOULD be found dead with a 9mm, because a 9mm is a .45 set on stun, and real men do not believe in stun.
Your joking right? Why are there so many dead people that prove otherwise?

It's satire.. See ClickClickD'oh's link which is where I got it.

 

[jefnvk]

CCW illegal by state law.

I was going more to show a school actually advocating not just complying with a shooters demands, and actually suggesting that people fight back, which seemed to be something people around here have been complaining about. Sure, its not the perfect solution, but a step in the right direction.

 

[bluestarlizzard]

jefnvk, it is the right direction, but telling an unarmed student to fight back against an armed gunman is not resenable in anyway, shape, or form. if you have no choice and your caught, i would hope your natural responce is to fight, but actually advocating it as an option, while at the same time telling students they can not be armed, is not a good thing.

 

[swingset]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.



Was this, or was this not a country founded on civil disobedience of unreasonable laws?

Nuff said.

 

[Soybomb]

I think that would be an interesting point to try to start an email dialogue with administration around. I would write them a polite letter telling them how you appreciate their concern for your safety and are glad they recognize that students might at some point be alone with an armed attacker and have to fight him. Since they agree this may happen, would they be willing to write a letter supporting changes in (state law/school policy/whatever you need) to allow students who already have concealed carry licenses in the state to be allowed to carry on university property? If not ask them how they would suggest one fight an attacker with a gun. Put them on the spot.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Sadly submit and obey is 9/10 of that packet.

 

[cambeul41]

Hell, the only thing worse than taking a knife to a gunfight is taking nothing at all!

Possibly, but a number of factors come into consideration such as distance and who moves first.

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=308

 

[jeepmor]

And I thought it was Michgun. So much for that old adage. Why is it that these people always profess the cowards approach. If they refuse to allow folks to be responsible for their own self defense, are there 32 cases of wrongful death be drawn up against Virginia Tech.

These institutions need to be sued into oblivion for removing someone's ability to defend themselves and not providing that security themselves. Of course, we all know it would be way to expensive, and ineffectual, to hire a bunch more campus security police. Eventually they'll have to give in and allow legal CCWs on campus. Heck, even open carry works for me.

Political correctness is ruining America.

 

[fspitzdorf]

During my time @ Tech I had half a dozen firearms in the Armory in Wads. Might not have been the smartest (nor legal) thing to do but after the 3rd time of the RA not getting his happy hung-over butt out of bed at 4 am so that I could "check out" my rifle during firearm deer season, it somehow ended up beneath my couch in my room (I had my own room), same went for the shotgun and the bow as I was shooting league (both archery and trap) and was heavily involved in the MTU Archery club at the time and finding someone of "authority" to check firearms in and out was a real hassle as I was doing this on a daily occasion all year between leagues and hunting.

I wasn't the only one...

The 90's were a bit different of a time I reckon but you still had to be discrete... I would NOT recommend trying that now...

 

[jefnvk]

These institutions need to be sued into oblivion for removing someone's ability to defend themselves and not providing that security themselves.

Actually, it is the state that needs to be sued. There is no point in suing the school to change their rules, when what you want to do is still illegal under state law.

Actually, Soybomb's suggestion may be the best I've heard.

fspitz, times have not changed

 

[fspitzdorf]

I really love the fact that I must go unarmed to EMU when I pickup, drop off or visit my GF's son. I mean no-one would ever bring a firearm illegally onto campus or into a dormitory. Therefore I should, naturally, not be concerned about not being armed.... Oh wait, that's right... some fellow did enter the Freshman dorm armed this year already...

Michigan's "Gun Free Zones" are a bloody joke and I surely hope that the bill currently in the state legislator's hands to repeal them passes. But I have little faith at this time, they can't even put together a realistic budget...

 

[shield20]

Dear MTU,

You acknowledge that a hostile intruder being on campus is a real possibility,

Special Conditions—Hostile Intruder(s) Inside a Building; Special Conditions—Hostile Intruder(s) in a Residence Hall

and that a hostile intruder may likely be "...actively causing deadly harm or the imminent threat of deadly harm", yet your student handbook explicitly denies me the right to defend myself effectively?

"The possession or use of a loaded firearm or archery or hunting bow on University property is prohibited, except at the rifle range and designated archery ranges, and then only if such equipment is properly registered with the University."

This doesn't make any sense. I would beg that you reconsider your stance on this restriction. While I applaud the fact that certain weapons are allowed on campus according to certain standards, most likely none would allow them to be used effectively for defense - "to fight back" - in the scenarios your emergency guides describe. Please also consider that a "hostile intruder actively causing deadly harm" will not be concerned with such restrictions, which will serve only to more effectively disarm his potential victims.

Thank you.

Student

PS
Since this restriction exists, I assume MTU is taking upon itself the responsibility of providing me with the same level of protection I could provide myself were I allowed to be armed with my legally owned handgun. Please arrange for my MTU-supplied armed bodyguard to meet with me as soon as possible so we can review procedures.

 

[Eyesac]

with?

Bad breath...:banghead:

 

[heySkippy]

I would rather be shot in the face while charging my assailant than be shot in the back while cowering in a corner.

 

[Deanimator]

If you are caught by the intruder and are not going to fight back, obey all commands and do not look the intruder in the eyes.

That worked really well at Auschwitz...

 

[bluestarlizzard]

"I would rather be shot in the face while charging my assailant than be shot in the back while cowering in a corner."

yeah, but should the school actually advocate doing that as an option? i don't think so. yeah, if i was unarmed and faced with a gunman intent on doing me bodily harm, i would fight like a bezerker for however long i lasted, but the school is telling people, well you most likley will die but you can fight anyway. it almost seems like their encouraging it. why? think about it. while the gunman is dealing with a student that is not just laying down to die, other students can get away and the police have a better time window. this scinairio is that of the sacrificial penguin, but i doubt most students would relize this. its one thing to make that choice yourself, but a school had better not tell people to do it.