scope advice

[flatsticks]

Waiting on my recent purchase to come in and was looking for some scope / mounting advice.
Picked up a Bergara HMR 6.5 creedmoor with a 24 inch barrel.
My understanding is that this gun runs off the Remmington 700 platform.
Would you mount the scope on a pic rail attachment, is there any benefit to that ?
Would be used for Deer/ Coyote hunting and some 500-600 target shooting mostly.
My Dad is a leupold fan and suggested I stay with that brand but seems like they are going to be expensive.
How would a vortex scope comapre say something like a Vortex vipser compare in glass quality ?
Thinking somethiing 4-15 power range would be ok , what do you think ?
Thanks for your thoughts .

 

[2ndtimer]

I am also a fan of Leupold. My Vortex Viper is a fine scope, but it is definitely short on eye relief compared to my Leupolds. I also like the 4.5-14X power range. I guess you need to look through some to see which scope your eyes prefer. Depending on your budget, Burris also offers some pretty good scopes in the lower price range, if you are budget minded.

 

[SharpDog]

I like Vortex and have several / many of their products. I was looking for a scope recently and ended up with an Athlon instead. I got the Athlon Midas BTR 4.5-27 which is probably too high of a magnification for your use but they make others

This is why I chose the scope:



It really depends on which two models you compare but here's a good video that goes through some various models and compares them:



There are also some scopes for sale on the forum:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ghts-accessories-etc-nc.877893/#post-11702073

 

[aaronu]

Not an expert but I will try... and maybe learn as well.

People I respect often recommend Leupold as well. Once the job situation improves I would definitely consider something like a VX-3 for myself.

However... given that I need to be careful with $$$ in these times I recently picked up a Burris Fullfield IV. I think they have a 4-16x 50mm model. My 2.5-10x model is very clear and bright, with a good sight picture. Eye relief seems good but I may need to reposition the scope and get more shooting time.

No direct experience with the Vortex scopes, sorry, so I will spare you the conjecture.

A rail is good because it increases options for scope positioning. My Burris scope is mounted on a Weaver rail for that reason. As for specifically Picatinny -- unless you have interchangeability with other scopes/rifles in mind, focus on getting the best quality mounts that work for your scope and rifle. And get whatever rail or base implied by that. Aside from the interchangeability aspect I don't know if there is any advantage or disadvantage to a Picatinny rail.

That is my $0.02 anyway.

 

[jmr40]

Leupold is never a bad choice. If you don't want anything fancy the VX3i's can be found at around $350-$400. If you want a reticle with multiple aiming points or dials to twist for long range expect to pay more. But if you're going to shoot at 400-600 yards you need dials. The VX-Freedom isn't bad at all and is usually about $100-$200 less than the VX3i. I sorta like the more expensive scope a little better, but wouldn't feel handicapped with the VX Freedom.

You don't really need that much magnification, I've shot MOA at 600 yards with a fixed power 6X scope.

The same mounts that fit Remington will fit Bergara. For what you're going to do I like a rail.

I don't know how he does it, but a local gun store had one of these priced at $399 OTD that I bought about a month ago. I normally don't like dials on a hunting scope because they are easy to get moved while hunting. But this one locks down and won't move until you press a button on the turret. They are $499 everywhere else + tax and/or shipping.

This is only 3.5-10X, but in my experience that is plenty of magnification for the ranges you specify. Anytime you get above 10X there are negatives that have to be overcome. Especially on a hunting rifle.

https://www.swfa.com/leupold-3-5-10x40-vx-3i-riflescope-10.html?___SID=U

I liked it well enough that I told the store owner that if he could get another at the same price I'd buy it. He did, and I did. Haven't mounted it on anything yet.

A good look at how the turret locks.



If that is simply over budget then one of the VX Freedoms

https://www.swfa.com/leupold-4-12x40-vx-freedom-riflescope.html?___SID=U

 

[flatsticks]

Thanks for the info so far everybody . looks of good ideas for me to ponder .
Always nice to get others opinions on what has worked for them .
Looks like I have some vidoes to watch also ....awesome !

 

[cdb1]

Though I prefer the look of two piece bases I only go one piece picatinny anymore.

I’m not a fan of the glass on Vortex scopes until you reach the Razor line. I second the Burris Fullfield if Leupold is currently out of reach.

 

[JDeere]

I bought a Vortex Viper once. Compare it to a VX3i for a mid price scope and you will see the difference in brightness and clarity. The CDS works well for the price you pay for longer ranges. Never thought I would do it but I'm a fan of the 30mm tube now as well. I just bought another for a good price and swapping out a cheaper scope I like them so well. Shop around deals can be had...

 

[wiscoaster]

Let us know how your setup works out for you. I'm at this very moment considering exactly what you've got along with some other options.

 

[Thomasss]

I've been the photography business for 40 plus years and have found optics to be very high with almost all brands. However, what differs the best from the bad is what holds them together. Scopes aren't much different. Leupold is one of the best and I have 3 that have lasted 30 years or more before needing repair. When repaired, Leupold not only fixed them for free, but also replaced worn parts that they didn't have to. Several friends have Vortex and every one of them has had their scopes in for replacement within three years of purchase. Vortex is made in China, but they have a lifetime warranty which is honored very well.

 

[cdb1]

Several friends have Vortex and every one of them has had their scopes in for replacement within three years of purchase. Vortex is made in China,

First of all not all Vortex is made in China.

Second if every friends Vortex needed warranty work I don’t want a Vortex.

 

[Dr.Lou]

I‘age heard good things about Bergara rifles; you can’t go wrong with a Leupold scope, for hunting coyotes and larger critters where shots can be less than 50 yds, I like scopes with a greater FOV than most scopes offer at 4X..

FWIW, I just picked up a Christensen Arms Mesa chambered for the 6.5 CM for the same reasons as the OP, hunting deer, coyotes and banging steel out to 500 yards. I am kind of a Leupold addict so I don’t know much about the performance and durability of other brands. I went with a Leupold 2-12x42, Warne picatinny bass and Seekins Precision rings. Now to finish loading ammo and heading to the range.

 

[ms6852]

When it comes to a rifle scope, regardless of brand the scope must check all my boxes. My criteria is the following.
1. Depending on use either for target or hunting is the magnification factor, less for hunting and more for target shooting.
2. The scope must have an AO or a parallax correction knob.
3. The scope must have enough internal elevation adjustment to shoot the distance I am shooting without having to use a 20 MOA rail (but not a
deal breaker) as their are added benefits for having the rail that do not include the ability to shoot further.
4. Lastly, eye relief should not be to short, especially if you are shooting large calibers.

 

[flatsticks]

Nice looking gun Dr Lou , thanks for the pic. have decided I would prefer the Leupold line .
We have a couple of the older ones with the AO adjustment in the front and they still perform well .
Looking at the nightforce pic rail with the recoil lug has caught my eye .

 

[cdb1]

CA

What is a CA? Christensen Arms?

 

[Dr.Lou]

Yes, Christensen Arms. Sorry about that

 

[cdb1]

Just wanted to make sure.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Pretty much every scope I have purchased or used for under $200 has had at least 1 big shortfall. Most of them had several.
And I am far from a scope snob.


Vortex crossfire ii have been... okay

Burris full field e1 goes on sale for about $120 at times and is pretty good for the money.

Leupold vx1 has always been my favorite but I am a cheapskate. I believe they are now the freedom series.

I picked up a refurbished Leupold a couple years back for a great deal. May be worth looking into.

 

[army_eod]

CA = chromatic aberration.

 

[cdb1]

CA = chromatic aberration.

So Dr.Lou bought a chromatic aberration rifle?

 

[VikingTacticalCowboy]

Hello, everyone!

I am a new member here (already posted to the new member thread to introduce myself), but I just wanted to post to this thread to also get some advice on anyone's experiences with specific brands of scopes, mostly in the LPVO (Low Powered Variable Optic) genre, but also with more "budget friendly" affordable brands that might be considered "value" options.

I started my AR build with a Vortex Sparc AR Red Dot and a Vortex Mini 3X Magnifier. I initially wanted to do an LPVO with offset dot sight, like I have now, but was talked out of it by a friend of mine. After almost a year with the previous setup, I decided to trade out the red dot and magnifier for an LPVO and offset dot sight.

I went with the TruGlo 1-8x24mm Omnia 8 LPVO and TruGlo TruTec Mini Green Dot Sight after a lot of YouTube video reviews about different brands, reading several blog reviews about different brands, and looking at what I wanted, what I wanted to pay, what I wanted to get out of it, and what kind of reticle I wanted. I wanted a more simplistic reticle, which I REALLY like about the TruGlo. It has a great reticle, great brightness in the middle of the day, and I love that the middle of the crosshair is the 50/200 yard range, top of the crosshair is 100yd, and bottom is 300yd, then has 3 "ticks" below that are set at 400, 500, and 600 yards respectively. The green dot I put offset was more about price than options, and I did want a green dot instead of red, due to higher visibility in daylight brightness, like I have in my HoloSun HE507C-GR on my P320.

All in all, I paid right at about $500 for that bundle, similar to what I paid for my Vortex Red Dot and Magnifier. I was going back and forth between Primary Arms' cheaper models, SwampFox, Vortex's cheaper models, and a few others I could afford. (Of course, I'd love to put a Trijicon VCOG or EOTech Vudu LPVO or Leupold LPVO on there with an SRO or DPP or something offset, but I don't have an additional $2000+ to spend on glass right now, especially since I've spent roughly $3000 on my entire AR build.) The rifle is a straight shooter and I haven't had a single problem out of it or the new scope. I laser bore sighted it out to about 50 yards myself before ever firing it. When I got out to the range, it was SPOT ON at 50, 100, 200, 300, and 400 yards. I hit steel on my first time out with this new scope at up to 400 yards. Of course, NEVER having shot long range like that before, I went off of the videos I had watched, where to hold, how to check windage, etc. The first couple times at 300 and 400 yards, I missed, but I was plinking steel 4 out of 5 times after about my 5th or 6th shot, and doing so consistently after I got used to it. The scope has held its zero so far, which is over about 250 rounds or so. (I've been much more limited now due to the shortage of ammo, but still shoot about 15-30 rounds every time I go to my parents' house, who have a lot more land than I do, and it has kept its zero through everything.) Both sights are zeroed in at 50 yards, but I was able to hit out to even 200 yards with the offset dot sight. So, for a $500 combo, I have yet to experience anything that has given me any buyer's remorse, except for the brand shame. LOL!

I think if I do upgrade eventually, I might go to the SwampFox or Primary Arms brands, as they are closer in price for a little higher perceived quality than the TruGlo. Most people see TruGlo as a toy scope brand or Walmart brand, but a lot of the reviews I watched of the new Omnia line showed it held up a lot better than most other TruGlo items, even some of the blog reviews I read put it higher in their list than expected.

So, what about y'all out there in THR land? Any experiences with these type or brand of scopes (1x/LPVO or cheaper brands) that might be useful for myself going forward, or anyone else considering going just a little cheaper on the glass?

Thanks in advance, and here are a couple pictures of my new and old setup.

-Russ

 

[LoonWulf]

First of all not all Vortex is made in China.

Second if every friends Vortex needed warranty work I don’t want a Vortex.

HATER!!!!!!!!!

Ill second that tho, buddy had two fail back to back, both replaced free...dumped the last replacement. He does still have a couple Diamondbacks. His experience (and other little things) have been enough to steer me away from the Vortex scopes i could afford.

 

[flatsticks]

Well I thought I had my rail picked out so I called Bergara to double check that I needed a short rail and the tech confirmed it .

Mentioned that I was going with the nightforce pic rail with the recoil lug the guy said I wouod not it could create ejection issues .

Does anybody have a nightforce pic rail that can confirem no issues with ejections .

Like the idea of the sturdy mount and the recoli lug or do I really not need it ?

The gun came in and it sure looks great .

Tech offered to run the Hornandy 140 grain bullets and said I will really like the performance from them .

 

[cdb1]

Mentioned that I was going with the nightforce pic rail with the recoil lug the guy said I wouod not it could create ejection issues .

I’ve seen a few Bergara rifles with one piece picatinny bases and have never heard of any ejection issues.

 

[Bob V]

I’ve seen a few Bergara rifles with one piece picatinny bases and have never heard of any ejection issues.

I have a Bergara B14 Wilderness HMR chambered in .308 Win and here's my thought process FWIW on scope mounting. Spoiler alert: I use a pic rail and have had no ejection issues. (Remember you can't top-feed that magazine anyway it needs to be removed from the rifle to slide the rounds in from the front, so having a rail near the ejection port is a non-issue).

Generally I prefer L-shaped scope rings with integral bases like the Talley Lightweight (Leupold makes some like that as well). DNZ Game Reaper mounts have a similar benefit with the lower halves of the rings are the same piece of metal as the base. Fewer screws, fewer parts. Cleaner look IMHO (Old farts like me are enamored with walnut and blued steel; the tactical look of a pic rail is out of place on some rifles). Big downside is you have to get lucky with the eye relief mounting.

So, here's why I went with a separate pic rail and rings:

1. Pic rails make it easy to dismount and swap scopes. With a 6.5 Creedmoor setup you might want to go to a long range marksmanship camp, and they might not like your scope choice so the pic rail gives you the option of removing yours and renting something with mil-dot reticle, etc. Also you might soon find yourself with one scope for hunting and one for target shooting. Or one insanely expensive scope that you swap from one platform to another.

2. Pic rails also make it easy to set up with a 20 moa cant, effectively extending the elevation adjustment range of your scope. The reticle on almost every scope model will be centered in it's adjustment range, basically wasting a lot of travel on a "down" adjustment you'll never need. Lets say the scope is 80 moa total elevation range of adjustment. On normal rails or rings that's 40 up and 40 down. Using a 20 moa rail shifts it so its massive 60 up and 20. Just make sure the turret will twist that many times! My Leupolds only go one or two turns from zero-lock. (Note that you CAN get Talley rings with 20 moa cant but they only mount facing one way which limits your options for setting up eye relief). Take a peek at some ballistics charts to see how many moa of drop you need from your line of departure to the range that you're realistically going to be shooting. My guess is that for 600 yards you don't need a 20 moa rail (but it doesn't hurt).

3. I know I mentioned this already above, but Pic rails are far more versatile in terms of ring placement for proper eye relief. L-shaped Talley rings have no options there. Some scopes have very little room between the turret and the bell that you just have to pick a different rail notch in order to mount it where you need it. Some rings are pretty wide (6-screw models for instance) and they also don't give much room to slide the tube forward and backward to set it up for eye relief.

I had to trim back the pic rail in order to clear the bell to mount my Leupold VX-5HD 3-15 x44 (a hunting scope by any means not a long range target scope there's no embroidery on the reticle). Not difficult since I got an aluminum rail (but you need to have some aluminum-black and the tools to allow you to comfortably cut the rail cleanly - so instead get a shorter rail in the first place!). In other words you don't want the rail to extend much beyond the receiver on the Bergara action. It does fit Rem 700 pattern mounts. Be careful if you have the more expensive Premier series bergara rifle it will have heavier screws so you need a different countersink/hole in the mount.

BTW Leupold's "Freedom" series is their entry level price point and they may have something you like in your budget. Imported glass components with American made body and mechanicals. I have "CDS" turrets on two of mine - you call them up and tell them the bullet you're using and your muzzle velocity and they custom etch an elevation dial marked in yards (not just moa). Some scopes come with one free dial and some will accommodate the dials but you pay $80 for them to make one up for you (I've done it both ways). As long as you have a way of determining the range of your target you dial and shoot. Here's another way to save money on glass. If you have a 20 moa rail, you no longer need massive amounts of elevation adjustment on the scope. The difference between 1" and 30mm tubes, as you probably know, is the amount of room for the elevator assembly to move (having nothing to do with optical quality or image brightness). Paying more for a 30mm tube only gets you additional elevation adjustment range. You really don't pay anything extra for a 20 moa rail compared to a normal one.

Just noticed your question about the recoil lug. By design pic rails allow a recoil lug/bar on the ring to lock into the slot in the pic rail (do not use Weaver rails they will work but have wider grooves for a sloppier fit). Having four screws mounted into the top of the receiver IMHO is sufficient to hold a pic rail in place unless you're chambered in a magnum cartridge or you have a autoloader with parts slapping around inside. So my advice would be to save the money on the NF base and put it towards better glass.