Sedgley glove gun from WWII

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I am inclined to believe there are several models or production runs. The device in New Orlean is chambered in 38 S&W and not 38 Special. Personal if I was going to use it I think I would rather have it in that cal. If I was an OSS agent I would request that it is loaded with black powder. That way I might be able to escape in the smoke cloud :)

I have not let go of the OSS connection yet however your observation is correct and might very well be true. It might be a mistake that they were given/transfered to the OSS by the navy at the end of the war and the OSS just distroyed them at some point. Seeing no real value in it as a cloak and dagger weapon. The OSS were not fools. I am sure they made mistakes from time to time but they were not fools. I can not see this thing ever being used by the OSS. I would have to use my imagination and speculate on so bizzar mission were only a device like this could be used. Personal I would just look at Q and ask for the every day standard OSS issue pistol with a silencer, matte black prefered .... please!

It seems some devices are marked and others are not. The device from New Orleans comes in the original box. I am hoping they will release the photo of the box as well as detail photos of the device itself. There maybe info on it to be able to trace with. I am not too sure what its markings are but I will speculate "Hand Firing Mechanism-MK-2" with an S inside a circle.
 
Obviously, you have done a lot of research on those guns and I don't think I can contribute much more. I did mention the one marked "Navy Property" but I think that one is spurious. There is one shown in Firearms Curiosa, which was published long before the rash of fakes and that one has the "HAND FIRING MECHANISM" marking. That marking appears to be a single stamp marking, not the individual hand stamping seen on several others of dubious origin. Be suspicious of single letter stamps when dealing with any production or semi production item. Making up stamps or roll stamps isn't that hard and it was routinely done by any company making or intending to make more than a few of an item.

I have to doubt the use of .38 S&W caliber. .38 S&W was not in the U.S. military supply system and the few calls for that cartridge were handled outside the regular system. The .38 Special, on the other hand, was common issue to Navy and Marine pilots, those who would use the fields the CBs built. Did you actually check that gun or are you going by what the museum says?

If you plan to publish your data, I strongly suggest you run up some travel mileage and actually go see those guns. I have found it best not to take anyone's word on what a gun is or is not unless the person is a real expert (like the NFA people). The average museum curator is simply not knowledgeable enough for stuff like this (with the exception of the guy on Pawn Stars who knows everything about everything!).

Jim
 
I have not seen the book you are referring to yet. It is a little too expensive. It seems to be a collectors item as well. A few hundred dollars for a 1999 print on amazon. I have seen several references and source to those basic markings I guessed at. It could be that what I have seen was source from that book as well. Section IV in the C&R list references it in part as well. Were there preproduction or post production copies. I do not know in fact I know very little about this devise than what I have read. I would however shy away from them anyway without some sort of proof or validation. I am guessing there is only a handful of production runs in existence outside of museums. Most may have been destroyed. There are very few stories if any coming out of the SeaBee lore of this devise being issued. I doubt such a crazy devise wound not have been talked about if issued to the construction crews and may even been traded away for something else. I believe the donors story in New Orleans was faking landings to fool the Japanese spies. One was issued to them.
http://www.nww2m.com/2011/09/weird-weapon-with-a-hollywood-connection/

I have not seen one in person yet. I wish I could see the one in New Orleans though. Slipping a 38 S&W empty shell into it would be enough I think to answer the question of cal. I would also take a 40x loop with me too and get an idea to the tooling marks and glove construction. Detail photos and photos of all and any stamps.

I am not a writer besides if I was allowed I would share whatever was given on this device. What good is a writer who gives away all the chapters before he binds the book anyway. It is a fun devise to research and talk about. It is surprising how thin the available information is on this thing is.
Thx Jim
 
The Beach Jumpers existed, but the way the glove gun was to be used sounds like a "war story" and even less likely than the bulldozer operator story. Like the ridiculous tale of the Japanese Type 94 "surrender pistol", it presumes that the captor is a complete idiot. Not to mention that any prisoner attacking a capturing soldier even with his fist would immediately be killed by the soldier or his comrades.

Given the number of those guns in existence, and the likelihood that most are fake, I am very much inclined to believe the reported production of 52, or about that. If thousands, or even hundreds were made, they would be much more common.

I hope you get a chance to go to the Crescent City; I was there once, and a return is not high on my "todo" list. But I did get to see "Candy" Barr do her act and that made the trip from Ft. Polk worthwhile. Wow!

Jim
 
WHB Smith, "Small Arms of the World", Stackpole, 1966.

Smith in the history of small arms ends the history of singleshot pistols with "World War II Special Uses".

Under the listing "Guerilla Use of Pistol" is the Liberator, mainly used against the Japanese by the Filipino guerillas supplied by OSS.

Under "Secret Weapons": "Passing mention should be made of two "secret" weapons which were dreamed up during War II, but which were completely impractical."

One was the pengun supposed to be used by captured spies either as a suicide weapon or for base-of-the-neck shots. Smith wrote the only confirmed use was an accidental discharge nonfatal wound to the carrier.

The other was the glove pistol: "Yet another freak was developed in Naval Intelligence circles." Apparently made in both .38 S&W and .38 Special (according to the photo caption) and intended to be used first as a striking weapon: "The idea here was the wearer could crack a skull with a blow...." and fired as single shot pistol as a last resort "in case of emergency". (Reminds me of the WWI trench knife with brassknuckle handguard.)
 
I'm going to get out of here. The thread is getting circular and no one seems to have any further solid information.

Worse, the waters are muddied by what appear to be fakes, including several of those that came up on Google Images.

Hopefully, MuffinMaster will resolve all the discrepancies and produce a good book on those interesting guns.

Jiim
 
Maybe a 1/2 page flyer is the sum of it so far. A strange part of WWII and gun lore that will just be misunderstood and die off I think. I'm hoping someone has something to add one day.
 
I found a great article " "Sidewalk" Sedgley & the Haight Fist Gun" in "Man at Arms" Jan/Feb 2007 by Keven Williams and Charles Pate. It looks like a very well documented article on the OSS Glove Gun. He lists his sources as well at the end. I enclosed the beginning because I got a little laugh from it. Maybe Jim or others might too. It also goes on to question its relevance with the OSS even though history has renamed this device to what we know it as today .... "OSS Glove Gun". The article discuss the prototype, preproduction and production models. I order a back copy for about $6 plus shipping.

"Imagine for a moment that an experienced heavy equipment operator by the
name of John Blocker had decided, after the attack on Pearl Harbor, that
he wanted to serve his country directly and enlisted in the U.S. Navy. With
his experience, the Navy had been very happy to get him, but a few short
months after joining the 31st Naval Construction Battalion, Seaman Blocker
wondered if he had picked the right branch of the military. Driving a bulldozer
on various South Pacific islands had put him in the line of fire many times.
Admiral Nimitz island-hopping strategy had the Seabees clearing air strips
and building roads as soon as the Marines had control of an island, often
while some pretty hot fighting was still going on. While Blocker was blading
down some high spots on a new landing strip, some movement at the edge
of the jungle shook him out of his daydream. Suddenly, a Japanese soldier,
tanto in hand, was climbing up the back of the road grader, intent on slitting
the Seabees throat! There was no chance to bring a carbine or even a pistol
into action. Fortunately, Seaman Blocker was wearing work gloves with the
newly issued "Fist Gun" installed. Without having to even think about it, he
punched his assailant in the chest. The .38 caliber slug missed the heart by
inches but lodged in the spine of the enemy soldier, killing him instantly"

BUT ... if you turn the page and read the next paragraph.


" The account on the previous page is fic-
tional, but was the exact sort of scenario that
Captain Stanley M . Haight, Jr., U.S. Navy,
had in mind when he designed the "fist gun
for hand-to-hand combat." "
 
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That was the same "story" I read back in 1944 when one of the magazines had an article and picture of the "secret" weapon. Just as silly then as it is now, though at 12 years old I didn't really know how ridiculous the idea was.

Jim
 
Sedgley Glove Gun ...

Fascinating. This is the first that I have ever heard of it (but I only perused the first few responses here, not all 60).

So ... to use it, I assure that the safety is off and then punch the BG hard in a location where a bullet might quickly ruin his day. Hmmmm ...
 
I believe you are correct. I think this is the ONLY contact firearm ever designed and went to production for any government. It is only fitting that we can claim that distinction. I would be happily corrected if somebody can. The article quoted earlier believes to some extent that this gun went to production by mistake. I find that very believable.

How the OSS got connected to this gun I am not too sure of. It is true that in at least two case and maybe 3 of this gun may/has some sort of (loosely) connection with various intelligence operations. I only know of 7 copies in museums and maybe 3 in private collections. My guess is that the gun was delivered to the US government and nobody knew what to do with it. From this a very strange mixed up history begins. What would you do with a case of these things in the middle of a war? I could see how this was handed off the various special ops and secret squirrel types hoping they could figure out what to do with it. The gun is not practical and nothing was ever done with them is my guess. They would make great jokes and misdirection for real secret weapons maybe. I bet they are still laughing if that was the case!

Mr. Haight reportedly had Sedgley manufacturing and contract documents for this gun. When he passed they were lost.

History does have its failures and they are collectible as well. Fun too. ;-)
 
On the other hand?

Think of the 1,000,000 Liberator pistols supposedly manufactured in WWII.
With supposedly some OSS connections.

What happened to about 995,000 of them? (just a guess on that number)
Because they were never dropped behind the lines as intended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

Could the same fate not have befallen most of how many? ever Sedgley Gloves there were supposedly ever made in the first place?

Suppose the South Pacific SeaBee story is true?
Suppose one or two cargo ships were torpedoed on the way to deliver them to the islands?
Suppose all that were left in the States (and all the records) were destroyed in secret toward the end of the war to shield high level brass hats who approved making them in the first place from squandered resources?

Gotta think outside the box to solve some of the WWII mystery's that will always remain mystery's!

rc
 
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The more I learn about this gun , the more the mystery. I am going to follow the documentation from the Sidewalk article for personal interest. I have a few books to buy and read.
One day maybe I'll see one for sale. I might know by them what is real and what is not. Maybe my wife and my lawyer MIGHT let me buy one.

And then guess what?

I will own a completely useless weapon that I will never ever shoot for a lot of money that nobody real knows anything about. What a deal!

I wonder who gets the last laugh on that one.
 
Who knows.
But be sure and post good pictures of it here first.

Then write the definitive book, and get all your money back, plus lots more!

rc
 
I will again caution that many/most of the surviving ones, even those in museums, are probably fake. It would be pretty easy to make them based on photos and the patent document, and the profits from even a few sales would be quite nice. And they wouldn't even have to work; no one is going to take one to the range and shoot a few hundred rounds.

Jim
 
The gun in NewOrleans, according to the donating family, was issued at Ocracoke Island, NC at an Amphibious Training Base during WWII. He was a part of the Phillippines invasion. I imagine this is were the beach jumps trained as well. I am not too sure what base that is.
 
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Hello gentlemen,

I'm the curator that took the WWII Museum's glove gun into the collection. I came across this thread while researching the gun, so I had to sign up!

I haven't had a whole lot of luck finding much about these things either. I've seen production estimates from 50-200. As for the museum's gun, the markings on it are as follows:

Stamped on the frame under the barrel: Hand Firing Mechanism MK2 and an S in a circle
Stamped on the edge of the frame: A small anchor flanked by the letters US

There is no serial number on the piece, nor is there any stamping to indicate its caliber. Judging by the size of the chamber, I am inclined to say that it is indeed a .38 S&W, but I haven't had a chance to measure it.

As for the box, not much help there. It is definitely a period box, but the only marking on it is the following number, ink stamped on the front center cover of the box: 01-0004x (the x could be another 0, but it is almost obliterated).

I don't really have anything to add to the discourse here, but I wanted at least to fill in what I could about the museum's glove gun.

Best regards,
Eric
 
Thanks for those details, Eric. I'm a New Orleanean and can't wait to take the family over there again to see it. We love the new Freedom Pavilion.

Derry
 
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I will have a Sedgley Glove gun for sale on Monday (20 OCT 14) I have already seen the gun in person. It is U.S. Property and USN marked and I believe it has Serial # 9 stamped inside the frame as well. I'm picking it up on Sunday the 19th for consignment. Let me know if you are interested. I can send you more info and photos if you like.
Thanks,
Robert Setzer
Raeford Guns
Raeford, NC
(910)709-3950
 
Glove gun

Sorry,
Its been over a year since I was suppose to come into possession of the Glove gun I spoke of. The gentlemen was not prepared to let go of the gun at the time. However I'm scheduled to meet him this weekend and discuss purchasing it. As far as authentication do you know of anyone who would be qualified? I need to find the photos I took of the gun. Everything seems correct.
Thanks,
Robert.
 
I know of no one who has actually seen one, let alone be qualified to authenticate one.

Short of the NRA National Firearms Museum in Fairfax VA.

There are some people there that could be trusted to do it.

http://www.nramuseum.com

rc
 
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