Seeking opinions on the purchase of a new 270…Bergara B14 Timber, Weatherby Vanguard II or Winchester M70 Featherweight?

[whatnickname]

I’ve been a fan of the 270 Winchester for years. I’ve been considering the purchase of one of these three rifles and would like to hear the pros and cons of each.

The Bergara has an excellent reputation and comes with a sub MOA guarantee. The only down side I’ve seen is that some people want a lighter trigger than the Bergara can achieve (2.8 pounds). Jard seems to make a good aftermarket trigger.

The Weatherby Vanguard II comes with a MOA guarantee and a very good adjustable trigger.

The Winchester M70 Featherweight has a so-so trigger, some of mine shot sub-MOA out of the box and others had to be pillar bedded. This is one of the all time classics and may not be in production indefinitely.

Which one would you get and why?

 

[Anchorite]

Have you shouldered each one for fit? Cycled the action and familiarized yourself with the controls and trigger? Rifle fit and function is subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever you plan to hunt with the rifle won’t know the difference. And you can trick out any of them with aftermarket “stuff” to suit your fancy.

FWIW, I’d pick the least expensive and either stock up on ammo or components and decent glass and go bust caps.

 

[amflyer]

If your main concern is bench accuracy, get the Bergara. If you're looking for a decently lightweight hunting rifle, get the Winchester. I'm not familiar with all the Bergara variants, but the ones I've picked up in the store were pretty hefty. Same for the Vanguard, at least the .243 Win version I have. The Featherweight isn't considered lightweight these days, but with the barrel contour, it is just about right for a good mix of portability and shootability.

 

[md7]

I’ve got a bergara ridge in 308 win, and I really like it. Two things I’d share from my experience.

- Mine is accurate, but the barrel is picky. Prepare to experiment with different ammo types to find a couple that work with your barrel

- The Bergara is not what I’d call overly heavy, but it’s a touch heftier than some others out there. Something to be aware of.

No experience with the others, so I can’t comment. I do like @Anchorite suggestion of shouldering the ones you’re looking at. Good plan

 

[tominboise]

I've got three Model 70's, two of which are 270's, so I guess you know what I would recommend. The rifleman's rifle, of course, chambered in God's own cartridge, the 270 WCF....

 

[mshootnit]

Of those three personally I would get the Vanguard. 24" Barrel, very accurate. Very slick action.
Check out the Weatherby Mark V Hunter too though. https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/weatherby-mark-v-hunter-review/

 

[Slamfire]

Featherweight M70's were never built to be target rifles. They are lightweight rifles meant not to tire out the person carrying the things. Bedding a featherweight, free floating the barrel will improve the roundness and extreme spread of the group, but won't change how twitchy a lightweight rifle is. Lightweight highpower rifles are not forgiving with changes in hold and follow through. You have to cheek the things and press against your shoulder perfectly consistently to shoot good groups.

The featherweight M70 is listed as a 7 lb rifle

The Super Grade M70 is listed as an 8 lb 2 oz rifle

I would go for the heavier, longer barreled rifle. If you are going to use a 270 Win you might as well take advantage of the additional velocity a 24 inch barrel provides.

This pre 64 featherweight was not that accurate, and it kicked.

so I had a gunsmith rebarrel it in 270 Win using a SAKO Finnbear barrel contour

measurements taken from existing barrels

The heavy rifle shot great, but, it is heavier.

the older trigger was the better hunting trigger.

but as it came from the factory, it would over ride if the trigger pull was adjusted below 2.5 lbs. Some factory triggers would hold 2 lbs, but it was luck of the draw. The primary advantage to this trigger was that it did not trap frozen water or mud inside of a housing, which is intrinsic to the target oriented trigger mechanisms.

I really like the M70 action for its firing pin blocking safety.

I do not like, nor do I trust sear blocking safeties. The M70 safety positively pulls the firing back and holds it. Nothing short of the firing pin breaking, or the wing safety breaking will cause the rifle to discharge. Sear blocking safeties on over ride triggers are not as safe, in my opinion.

These over ride triggers are similar to trap door mechanisms. Kick out the block and the trap door falls. The amount of metal holding the sear in place has to be in the thousandths, to have a crisp trigger pull. And when owners monkey with the things to reduce creep and lighten the pull, it just takes less of a jar to over ride the mechanism.

I am 100% certain that is why Ruger went away from the tang safety, which only blocked the sear, to a wing safety that also locks into a recess on the cocking piece. If the sear fails, the wing safety will hold the firing pin back.

Something else I like about the M70 is that it is easy to take the firing pin mechanism out, to clean the inside of the bolt, and the firing pin. It is apparent on later designs, that the owner is never expected to be able to replace mainsprings, or clean the interior of the bolt.

 

[horsemen61]

Of the three I’m partial to the M70 fwt I’ve killed a bunch of deer with one the other two don’t feel the same to me

 

[rdnktrkr]

At one time Howa built the plastic stocked Weatherbys, I have a few Howa 1500s and love them especially after getting the trigger set and polishing the bolt, if I'm not mistaken they also have a moa guarantee.

 

[jmr40]

Featherweight M70's were never built to be target rifles. They are lightweight rifles meant not to tire out the person carrying the things.

100% accurate by 1950's standards. But a 7 lb Winchester FWT in 2023 is heavier than the vast majority of new production bolt action rifles.

But of the choices above I still like the Winchester the best. It isn't a match rifle, but every one I've shot was a 1 MOA or better rifle. The aesthetics don't hurt either.

I'm 1 for 3 on Bergara's. I really want to like them, but accuracy on 2 of the 3 I've owned was unacceptable with any load I tried. I liked one enough to send it back to Bergara. They tweaked a few things and returned it with a target with 3 holes in .4" With Federal Gold Match ammo costing $60/box. None of my handloads would do better than 1.5". The same loads that would shoot .5" 3 shot groups in my other rifles. I didn't like it enough to pay $60 for every box of ammo so I let it go.

 

[whatnickname]

Featherweight M70's were never built to be target rifles. They are lightweight rifles meant not to tire out the person carrying the things. Bedding a featherweight, free floating the barrel will improve the roundness and extreme spread of the group, but won't change how twitchy a lightweight rifle is. Lightweight highpower rifles are not forgiving with changes in hold and follow through. You have to cheek the things and press against your shoulder perfectly consistently to shoot good groups.

The featherweight M70 is listed as a 7 lb rifle

The Super Grade M70 is listed as an 8 lb 2 oz rifle

I would go for the heavier, longer barreled rifle. If you are going to use a 270 Win you might as well take advantage of the additional velocity a 24 inch barrel provides.

This pre 64 featherweight was not that accurate, and it kicked.

so I had a gunsmith rebarrel it in 270 Win using a SAKO Finnbear barrel contour

measurements taken from existing barrels

The heavy rifle shot great, but, it is heavier.

the older trigger was the better hunting trigger.

but as it came from the factory, it would over ride if the trigger pull was adjusted below 2.5 lbs. Some factory triggers would hold 2 lbs, but it was luck of the draw. The primary advantage to this trigger was that it did not trap frozen water or mud inside of a housing, which is intrinsic to the target oriented trigger mechanisms.

I really like the M70 action for its firing pin blocking safety.

I do not like, nor do I trust sear blocking safeties. The M70 safety positively pulls the firing back and holds it. Nothing short of the firing pin breaking, or the wing safety breaking will cause the rifle to discharge. Sear blocking safeties on over ride triggers are not as safe, in my opinion.

These over ride triggers are similar to trap door mechanisms. Kick out the block and the trap door falls. The amount of metal holding the sear in place has to be in the thousandths, to have a crisp trigger pull. And when owners monkey with the things to reduce creep and lighten the pull, it just takes less of a jar to over ride the mechanism.

I am 100% certain that is why Ruger went away from the tang safety, which only blocked the sear, to a wing safety that also locks into a recess on the cocking piece. If the sear fails, the wing safety will hold the firing pin back.

Something else I like about the M70 is that it is easy to take the firing pin mechanism out, to clean the inside of the bolt, and the firing pin. It is apparent on later designs, that the owner is never expected to be able to replace mainsprings, or clean the interior of the bolt.

Thank you for the very detailed information here.

 

[whatnickname]

100% accurate by 1950's standards. But a 7 lb Winchester FWT in 2023 is heavier than the vast majority of new production bolt action rifles.

But of the choices above I still like the Winchester the best. It isn't a match rifle, but every one I've shot was a 1 MOA or better rifle. The aesthetics don't hurt either.

I'm 1 for 3 on Bergara's. I really want to like them, but accuracy on 2 of the 3 I've owned was unacceptable with any load I tried. I liked one enough to send it back to Bergara. They tweaked a few things and returned it with a target with 3 holes in .4" With Federal Gold Match ammo costing $60/box. None of my handloads would do better than 1.5". The same loads that would shoot .5" 3 shot groups in my other rifles. I didn't like it enough to pay $60 for every box of ammo so I let it go.

Good to know. Sometimes the hype and guarantee don’t quite match up with actual performance. I’m taking Bergara off my list.

 

[mshootnit]

I like the model 70's, but being made overseas now is kind of a turnoff for me.
Part of the reason I gravitate toward used Rugers and Rem 700s is due to the American made nostalgia. American walnut. I am thinking about trying a Weatherby Mark V Hunter because I like the fact they told CA goodbye and went to Wyoming. I think the Hunter 6 lug 270 etc comes with a Trigger Tech trigger and is partially glass bed, from what I read. Not sure about that. Fluted bolt, cerakote action, Seems like a lot of gun for the money. I am just down to my Ruger Hawkeye Stainless for 270 now. I like it so much I just got tired choosing between 270's and leaving it home.

 

[md7]

OP, if you’re open to other rifles I’d mention Tikka T3X and Savage 110.

Traditionally accurate rifles.

 

[Gun-Reck]

Good choices all.

Ed Shilen taught Bergara how to make barrels.

As the .270 Winchester is a hunting cartridge, and you didn't specify, will assume this is a field rifle.

When faced with the same decision, ended up with the soul-less Winchester/BACO M70 Extreme Weather/Stainless Steel.

FN/USA made, assembled by Browning in Portugal, mounted in a Bell & Carlson stock, and topped with a Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8x36mm in Talley LW mounts.

The fluted barrel gives it FW weight and balance with the stiffness of a sporter contour.

Fit and finish is outstanding, action smooth as glass, and the trigger breaks like a 3.5 lb. icicle.

Shoots bug-holes.

Couldn't be happier.

 

[BreechFace]

Out of those it would be a Winchester M70 Extreme Weather; but I'm a 3-position safety, CRF, coned breech guy. And with a rifle that will serve you for your whole life, I would spend the time/effort/cost to bed the action and get the trigger tuned up if need be. All of that in doesn't cost much and is great to have established at the start.

Top the Winchester off with a nice lightweight piece of Leupold glass and one has a nice rifle in a suitable weight.

Another to consider in my opinion is a Ruger Hawkeye; but again this is more my bias towards the same features I like on the Winchesters. (EDIT: Nevermind, it looks like Ruger has completely moved away from chambering 270WIN; which is what you wanted. But I think you don't know what you really want and it really is a 280AI and Ruger does offer that in their Ruger Hawkeye African line as a Lipseys exclusive.)

Tikka's would be another great suggestion from my second hand experiences; their actions are very smooth.

I've heard some good experiences with Bergara and a few not-so-good; but more good than bad. I do know they are portly. I've handled enough of them to realize they need to make some changes on the weight of their rifles.

The Weatherby Vanguard line I've been around a couple of people that have them and they seemed great for a no drama rifles.

 

[LoonWulf]

Ive had a few of the howa/wbys, one B-14 and my dad has a Premier.
Personally i think your getting about the same quality with any of them.

The Howa tend to be a little less well finished than the Vanguards, but otherwise the same guns. Accuracy from mine have run 1-1.5moa with most of the loads I've tried (vanguard .270 shot eld-xs into about .75-1).

I had Timber and liked it. The stock is a little thick thru the wrist, which i found quite comfortable and Its a modified 700 copy so gets extra points from me (i just really like 700s). Its was little smoother than the Wby, but no more accurate (30-06, never had a horrible 06, but also never had a stupendous one).
One thing to note on the B14s is the bottom metal is very heavy, you can cut 1/4lb just by swapping for aluminum bdl bottom metal.

Ive shot more than a few m70s, pre-64s, pushfeeds, and currently produced rifles.
I found them also better finished than the Howas, and the glossy ones nicer than the Bergara, but functionally little difference. Honestly i prefer the pushfeeds to the crfs, but thats a feel thing. i don't really like any of the guns with big claws.....which is 100 percent a personal thing.

 

[TonyAngel]

Most of my experience with Bergaras has been with rimfires, but I have spent a bit if time with centerfire models, mostly in 6.5CM. Personally, I think the Bergaras are over rated. I'm not saying they aren't good, but I don't think they would be my first choice.

Of the other two options, I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Which do you like best?

Not to muddy the waters, but have you considered a Tikka? I've had an increasing amount of exposure to the brand and what I've seen has been impressive. Actions are as slick as snot and they shoot VERY well.

 

[mshootnit]

Good choices all.

Ed Shilen taught Bergara how to make barrels.

As the .270 Winchester is a hunting cartridge, and you didn't specify, will assume this is a field rifle.

When faced with the same decision, ended up with the soul-less Winchester/BACO M70 Extreme Weather/Stainless Steel.

FN/USA made, assembled by Browning in Portugal, mounted in a Bell & Carlson stock, and topped with a Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8x36mm in Talley LW mounts.

The fluted barrel gives it FW weight and balance with the stiffness of a sporter contour.

Fit and finish is outstanding, action smooth as glass, and the trigger breaks like a 3.5 lb. icicle.

Shoots bug-holes.

Couldn't be happier.

Dang, you are going to make me go buy one of those now arent ya? Nice rifle.

 

[d2wing]

I’ve been a fan of the 270 Winchester for years. I’ve been considering the purchase of one of these three rifles and would like to hear the pros and cons of each.

The Bergara has an excellent reputation and comes with a sub MOA guarantee. The only down side I’ve seen is that some people want a lighter trigger than the Bergara can achieve (2.8 pounds). Jard seems to make a good aftermarket trigger.

The Weatherby Vanguard II comes with a MOA guarantee and a very good adjustable trigger.

The Winchester M70 Featherweight has a so-so trigger, some of mine shot sub-MOA out of the box and others had to be pillar bedded. This is one of the all time classics and may not be in production indefinitely.

Which one would you get and why?

Actually none of the above. Just get a Tikka. I would also think about getting it in 7-08 but if you have an itch you have to scratch it I guess.

 

[mshootnit]

Actually none of the above. Just get a Tikka. I would also think about getting it in 7-08 but if you have an itch you have to scratch it I guess.

One thing to consider there, a Tikka 7mm-08 and a Tikka 270 are the same length action.

 

[Dr T]

For the OP: How are you going to use the rifle? Get the one that best fits the use.

Some guns are great to look at. Some are great on the bench but not in the field and vice versa. If you are fortunate, you can find one that does all three.

For me, this is a matter of how well the rifle fits. For example, I find the Vanguard is a perfectly nice, well behaved rifle on the bench and looks fine. However, it is a real clunker (for me) in the field (too bulky). Other rifles that handle well in the field for me (e.g. my Ruger #1 RSI 30-06) are not so great on the bench. The RSI is very pretty.

If you want the classic 270 Rifle, get the Winchester. (This was my excuse for my M70 375 H&H.)

What I do: I would pick up and handle all three. If one of them whispers in your ear "Take me home" the decision is made. If you have several examples of the same gun to choose from, take the one with the best trigger. While this technique is effective, it can also be expensive.