Seeking Powder Advice for older Handguns

[Oyeboten]

I need to send off for some Powders, and I have found my head spinning as for what ones to try.


I intend to be re-loading for longer Barreled, older Revolvers -

Model 1902 and early-ish Model 1905 S&W 'M&P' in .38 Special...4 to 6 inch Barrels...158 gr Bullets

Model 1902 Colt .38 Automatic (6 inch Barrel, 'Sporting Model)...148 grn Bullets.


Colt 'New Service' in .45 Long Colt, 6 or 7 inch Barrel (1912 production ) 225-250 grn Bullets

Uberti 'Bisley' 7-1/2 inch Barrel, late 1990s production...ditto...


I intend only Lead or softer alloy Bullets.


So...what are some good Powders for the best FPS with the kindest-lowest pressures in 6 inch Barrels?


I assume the old .38 Autocolt would be fine with erstwhile +P range .38 Special loads...or, would oblige even peppier ones, since the 'SAMMI' for it is around 26,000 psi, verses 17-ish for .38 Special.



Loading Tables I have seen so far do not seem to have any interest in Barrel Lengths.


Any ideas for me?


Phil
Lv

 

[Galil5.56]

I would give Unique a hard look.

Good luck, and have fun.

 

[tom357mag]

I second the Unique. Its a very powder

 

[griz]

For the revolvers, Trail Boss works well for lead bullets at target velocities. Any number of powders work well in 38 Spc and 45 Colt, but Trail Boss removes the chance of double charging. If you are looking for max velocity, and I don't see why you would, Universal, Unique, Power Pistol, and those slightly slower powders would work better.

I don't know enough about the 38 auto to have a useful opinion.

 

[Slamfire]

When your Colt New Service were new, Bullseye was the powder loaded by the Army in its M1909 Service Revolver cartridges. I would also assume that Bullseye was used in the loading of the 38 Specials.

I don't know when Unique came into production, but it is very old.

What I am getting to is that these revolvers were used with the exact same powders you have access to today.

I load my 38 Specials with 158 L 3.5 grains Bullseye, any primer, any case. That duplicates period factory loading and shoots to point of aim in my pre WWII revolvers.

I load my 45 LC Colt New Service revolvers with a 250 L 8.0 to 8.5 grains Unique. That duplicates period velocities. Bullseye will work fine but it is a little fast and pressures climb very fast. Unique is a better choice in 45 LC.

I also load my USFA Rodeo, a Colt SAA copy, with the same Unique load.

 

[GRIZ22]

I like Unique for most handgun loading and see no reason it wouldn't fit your requirement.

 

[Oyeboten]

Okay...


Thanks everyone!


For the Revolvers, I plan on reloading full-power Black Powder Loads, as well as roughly full-power (for them, for their pressure-comforts, in) Smokeless...and, to have these Cartridges boxed up, for a rainy day.


Also, I will reload for plinking and Target...Wadcutters or semi-wads, lighter-loads...and will shoot mostly these.

 

[Jim Watson]

Any pistol cartridge that has ever been loaded with smokeless powder at all, has been loaded with Bullseye. It is a little fast burning for full power, though, and Unique is a good medium range powder. Slamfire is pretty close to what I would do.

Although the 1909 New Service "large rim .45 Colt" started out with Bullseye, they went to a special order powder known as RSQ ("Rescue") which was said not to blow up a gun if double charged.

Don't assume anything about that 1902 .38 Auto. Chamber pressure isn't the problem, it is the strength of the slide key and the nose of the slide. Don't use any heavier load than it takes to cycle the slide.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi Jim,

Any pistol cartridge that has ever been loaded with smokeless powder at all, has been loaded with Bullseye. It is a little fast burning for full power, though, and Unique is a good medium range powder. Slamfire is pretty close to what I would do.

Possibly my initial quesiton was not really clear.


Given the four different Pistols in question all have 6 inch Barrels...I was interested in what Powders would give the most velocity, for the Bullet Weights stated, with the least pressure/spike/strain, for yes, up to "Maximum" safe loads, for these Guns.


Plinking or Target Loads I can use almost anything.



Possibly...the best, safest most powerful Loads for the 'early-ish' S&W .38 Specials, may well be 3 f BP...rated originally, if memory serve, at 950 FPS with 158 grn Bullet...or, maybe,"777"..?


However, if there is a Smokeless Powder which would burn right for them, giving as good or better FPS with no more strain than the BP, then, I'd like to be able to consider it...and research it further.


I do not intend running off doing anything foolish...Lol...

Although the 1909 New Service "large rim .45 Colt" started out with Bullseye, they went to a special order powder known as RSQ ("Rescue") which was said not to blow up a gun if double charged.

Far as I know, mine is a Civilian Model, which, while having a Lanyard Ring, is a long Barrel model, and, is plain old .45 Long Colt.

I have the 'Uberti Bisley' also, which is .45 LC

Don't assume anything about that 1902 .38 Auto. Chamber pressure isn't the problem, it is the strength of the slide key and the nose of the slide. Don't use any heavier load than it takes to cycle the slide.

Understood...


Slide cycles perfectly with light loads.


Was interested in a Powder Candidate for full 'SAMMI' blessed pressure-range Loads, and, slightly heavier Bullets (ie:148grn, in additionto 130 grn...)


I fired many thousands of rounds of regular 148 grn semi-wads otherwise intended for .38 Special, in re-loads I was doing 20 odd years ago in the Model 1902 Autocolt...no hint of any peening of Slide retaining bar area...using 'Unique' I'm pretty sure...though these were mostly reduced Loads for Target/Bullseye Shooting.

I'd like to re-load also for full power, and, given it's generous Barrel Length, was wondering what some good Powder choices might be, since virtually all loading data seem to presume short Barrels, while also omiting any digressions into powder charateristics for Barrel length.


My 'full power' Lead Bullet re-loads years ago, for the '02 Autocolt, always seemed to have less perceived recoil than 1920s-1930s Factory 'Hard Ball' Cartridges did...so, possibly, I was being overly conservative and was still downloading.

It seems to me, the '02 Autocolt shuld be entirely happy firing Cartridges whose loadings would be in the upper +P, 148 grn ballpark of .38 Special, with no strains or harm to the Pistol in any way.


Given it's normal 'SAMMI' downloaded specs are 130 Grain HardBall, 1050 FPS.


Originally, the M 1900 was 130 grn Hardball, and 1250 FPS.


Hardball I believe is a far greater strain than Lead...all other things being equal...yes?



Thanks so much for the conversation..!


I appreciate it...

Phil
Lv