Self defence and health issues

[borrowedtime69]

So, I have a question about self defense and health issues, especially if they aren't obvious. I have chronic back pain, breathing issues, bad knees (can't really run), fairly bad fibromyalgia, neuropathy in feet, legs and hands. Those are the main issues that limit me physically, though i have several more health issues.

What would be the outcome if I was forced into a self defense situation, (which I would try very hard to de-escelate or try to walk away as quickly as I could if escape was an option), since I am limited by medical issues that are not plain to see?

How would this senerio play out if worst came worst usually? If I submit my health record would authorities be more understanding? Thank you!

 

[AlexanderA]

In other words, you are asking if the threshold for using deadly force would be lower if you were physically unable to run away.

This might become a factor if it ever came to a trial. In the meantime, you don't get a "get out of jail free" card.

 

[Old Dog]

What would be the outcome if I was forced into a self defense situation, (which I would try very hard to de-escelate or try to walk away as quickly as I could if escape was an option), since I am limited by medical issues that are not plain to see?

Mas Ayoob wrote a great column in a recent issue of American Handgunner that covered this exact scenario -- a man with a serious medical condition, not visible to others, who was forced to employ lethal force to defend himself.

What you are describing is something referred to as a "disparity of force" situation: one who could easily suffer serious bodily injury or death, due to age, injury, disability or infirmity, when confronted by another capable of superior physical force by virtue of age, size or training.

Absolutely, if your physical/medical conditions are well-documented, should you reasonably believe that you are in grave danger of serious bodily injury or death, being forced to use deadly force can be shown to be justified.

You will, however, require a sharp attorney skilled in use of force defense cases, thorough (and well-credentialed) medical doctor testimony, though likely will have to pray for a good judge and jury, and hope you live in a jurisdiction in which criminal assailants who end up deceased or gravely injured, are not likely to be painted as the victims by the media and your community (if you can read between the lines).

 

[borrowedtime69]

Thank you! I live in conservative SD, and it's still a solid red state. I also have a city park near me where I walk the dog. There have been an increase in homeless (probably headed south for the winter), drug users and pushers, and guys getting "escorts" from nearby hotels and such. I do legally carry concealed but haven't had any real issues, but the possibility is there.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I asked a cop. If someone was tazing me can i shoot them. He said no. Then i told him i have heart issues. Then he said yes. I should email us lawshield about it.

 

[The Night Rider]

I also have a city park near me where I walk the dog. There have been an increase in homeless (probably headed south for the winter), drug users and pushers, and guys getting "escorts" from nearby hotels and such. I do legally carry concealed but haven't had any real issues, but the possibility is there.

It seems to me that the easiest way to solve this problem is not to walk your dog in that Park anymore.

 

[Old Dog]

It seems to me that the easiest way to solve this problem is not to walk your dog in that Park anymore.

Dude, that's akin to those who always say, "Move to a new area/city/state." Pretty sure in most cities, even the smaller ones (i.e., mine with only 16,000 population, but a burgeoning homeless problem) have their share of homeless camps in every area.

Letting fear of the homeless dictate our daily routines is just ignoring the problems. Myself, I like to walk my dogs from my house, and not have to drive to another area simply to walk 'em.

 

[borrowedtime69]

Dude, that's akin to those who always say, "Move to a new area/city/state." Pretty sure in most cities, even the smaller ones (i.e., mine with only 16,000 population, but a burgeoning homeless problem) have their share of homeless camps in every area.

Letting fear of the homeless dictate our daily routines is just ignoring the problems. Myself, I like to walk my dogs from my house, and not have to drive to another area simply to walk 'em.

Ditto, I don't have a choice to move and I haven't had threats or close calls yet that i know of, probably could have issues at some future time.

 

[gwpercle]

A lot depends on ... what city you live in , where the "assault" occurs , what party the Mayor , Police Chief and DA belong to and how badly do you "injure" the assailant . In a very liberal city if you injure the criminal ...you could be doing some jail time or held responsible for injuries from excessive force if used on the bad guy , with or without your health issues . They take protection and the rights of the criminals over and above the well being of the Honest Tax Paying American Citizen ... Your health issues will be of no concern .

I can assure you if I'm on the jury ... the good guy gets to use all the force he wants to ...
the bad guy gets whatever he gets ... If you man enough to do the crime , you gotta be man enough to do the time ...
Gary

 

[The Night Rider]

Dude, that's akin to those who always say, "Move to a new area/city/state."

No, it absolutely isn't. I assume you're familiar with the Rule of Stupids? In Colorado Springs Memorial Park right in the middle of town has become one vast homeless camp.

It's known for homeless activity. It's known for drug sales. There have been three or four shootings there in the last 6 months.

I don't go there. I generally avoid known trouble spots. I don't go to convenience stores. I don't go to ATMs ever. How is this any different?

Letting fear of the homeless dictate our daily routines is just ignoring the problems.

I really hate this line. How is what you said any different than the people that tell me that I carry a gun because I live in fear?

The Homeless Problem isn't my problem to solve. The last I heard it was the police's problem to deal with. What should I do? Go down to the park and walk my cat and wait for one to trifle with me and then beat the hell out of them?

 

[HKGuns]

Cops aren't attorney's. Ask the DA of whatever town you live in.......Nobody here knows what your DA would do.

 

[Kleanbore]

I asked a cop.

Not the best idea.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Not the best idea.

I agree. That is why i want to ask my carry insurance. They haven't had any seminar's near me lately.

 

[shafter]

One would still need the belief that they were in imminent risk of great bodily harm or death. If you were in a wheelchair getting slapped in the face, the fact that you can't defend yourself very well wouldn't give you the justification to use deadly force to defend against non deadly aggression.

 

[Old Dog]

One would still need the belief that they were in imminent risk of great bodily harm or death. If you were in a wheelchair getting slapped in the face, the fact that you can't defend yourself very well wouldn't give you the justification to use deadly force to defend against non deadly aggression.

I covered that in post #3.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Mas Ayoob wrote a great column in a recent issue of American Handgunner that covered this exact scenario -- a man with a serious medical condition, not visible to others, who was forced to employ lethal force to defend himself.

What you are describing is something referred to as a "disparity of force" situation: one who could easily suffer serious bodily injury or death, due to age, injury, disability or infirmity, when confronted by another capable of superior physical force by virtue of age, size or training.

Absolutely, if your physical/medical conditions are well-documented, should you reasonably believe that you are in grave danger of serious bodily injury or death, being forced to use deadly force can be shown to be justified.

You will, however, require a sharp attorney skilled in use of force defense cases, thorough (and well-credentialed) medical doctor testimony, though likely will have to pray for a good judge and jury, and hope you live in a jurisdiction in which criminal assailants who end up deceased or gravely injured, are not likely to be painted as the victims by the media and your community (if you can read between the lines).

Found the article, really excellent, highly recommend.

Eggshell Skull: the Case of the Vulnerable Victim - American Handgunner

Situation: A 250-pound bouncer smashes the head of a brain surgery patient into a floor … and it’s deadly force Read the full article...

americanhandgunner.com

 

[old lady new shooter]

A personal note, one time I posted here that I have osteoporosis, getting knocked to the ground would sadly likely break some bones, people here (one person in particular) said that would be irrelevant. I was glad to see Mas' article addressing the issue of disabling health conditions.

 

[Rexster]

Just a thought: For those of us with health conditions that make one eligible for a handicapped/disabled parking placard/tag/plate, well, this could be a portable, visible form of evidence of disability, that is connected to a public record of its existence.

 

[GEM]

Get a lawyer in your area, who is knowledgeable about firearms, SD and maybe health issues. Have the lawyer on retainer (perhaps through one of the insurance programs). Have documentation prepared with docs evaluations of your health. Might not mention SD as that might indicate a predisposition to shoot but just your limitations. Calling the DA - they are the folks who prosecute. Cops - they are not a source of expertise on such.

Read up, study, from the respected sources of SD advice - Ayoob, ACLDN, etc. Don't assume it's a out of jail card to blaze away, obviously.

 

[borrowedtime69]

Thanks everyone, and for the article. I would do whatever i could to avoid any confrontation, I hope to never have to defend myself or my family but I will if it comes to that.

 

[Rexster]

Thanks everyone, and for the article. I would do whatever i could to avoid any confrontation, I hope to never have to defend myself or my family but I will if it comes to that.

Good thinking, for anyone, regardless of physical ability.

 

[Rexster]

Just a thought: For those of us with health conditions that make one eligible for a handicapped/disabled parking placard/tag/plate, well, this could be a portable, visible form of evidence of disability, that is connected to a public record of its existence.

For those who have a choice, a placard that can be hung on the rear-view mirror, or placed on a dashboard, can be displayed only when applicable, whereas a special handicapped license place is on permanent display. All of us should always be careful to notice if we are being followed, but a permanently-displayed license plate could become a painted-on target, for a predator looking for easier prey.

 

[JTHunter]

For those who have a choice, a placard that can be hung on the rear-view mirror, or placed on a dashboard, can be displayed only when applicable, whereas a special handicapped license place is on permanent display. All of us should always be careful to notice if we are being followed, but a permanently-displayed license plate could become a painted-on target, for a predator looking for easier prey.

As I have both a car and a p/u, I use the placard. I just got it this year because, like the OP, I'm a "senior citizen", I have peripheral neuropathy (mostly in my right hand), had low back surgery as a teen, and extremely near-sighted. While I don't have a CCP (after all, this IS IL-ANNOY !), I'm not "unarmed". It may not be a true "shillelagh", it can have the same effect.

 

[borrowedtime69]

/ like the OP, I'm a "senior citizen",

LOL! I'm sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone, not a senior citizen yet, I'm only 54! As of the end of this month (Oct 2023) I will have had 5 surgeries in the last 7 months, and a lifetime total of 19 surgeries, including 3 for an aneurysm and also had a minor heart attack. My nickname should be "Lucky."

 

[jmorris]

What would be the outcome if I was forced into a self defense situation, (which I would try very hard to de-escelate or try to walk away as quickly as I could if escape was an option), since I am limited by medical issues that are not plain to see?

Almost infinite possible outcomes, way too many variables to be defined.

A lot of States follow along the lines of;

1. you reasonably believe it to be necessary to protect against imminent harm, and
2. you use only the degree of force appropriate for the situation.