0007
Member
Almost forgot, for maximum effect, hang a laser projector on the magazine tube.
Self-defense for female in apartment in urban neighborhood?
- Thread starter leahzero
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I don't agree with this. Shotguns have some major advantages.
1) Stopping power. A shotgun will stop the person while a handgun usually takes several well placed shots to do so.
2) It's a lot easier to hit the target with a shoulder held weapon.
3) It's a lot more intimidating to the intruder/assassilant.
telomerase
Member
long guns for females
Bogie makes a good point about the desirability of putting a good lock on an internal door... although no apartment I've ever lived in had anything but useless hollow-core doors in or outside, so you'd have to buy and hang your own door. Then replace the drywall internal walls... kind of extensive.
>Oh, fachrissake! A homemade flash-bang?
Flashbulbs don't go bang. She said she was a nerd, bogie; nerds have model rocket and electronic stuff around.
>Too damn many wannabe mall ninjas. Simplicity works, especially for folks who don't have the time/inclination to dedicate their lives to paranoia.
True. But then taping steak knives everywhere is hardly non-paranoid, and not likely to be any use to a small untrained female against a large street fighter intruder. Ditto for baseball bats.
RE long guns: most long guns are not sized for females. The length of pull is too long for their narrow shoulders. They are unwieldy inside, and hard to hide in convenient locations for quick access. This is not as true of carbines (Winchester does have a Youth Model 94), and stocks can be cut down... but telling a female non-shooter to buy a standard-size shotgun is not giving them the quickest way to effective self-defense. Would you like to use a 5-foot long 8 gauge with a 24" LOP indoors? OK, yes, you would, but I mean if you weren't one of the nuts on this forum?
Of course, if we shooters had done our jobs, most females would have already taken pistol shooting in high school and be knowledgeable (and OK, probably own shotguns).
Bogie makes a good point about the desirability of putting a good lock on an internal door... although no apartment I've ever lived in had anything but useless hollow-core doors in or outside, so you'd have to buy and hang your own door. Then replace the drywall internal walls... kind of extensive.
>Oh, fachrissake! A homemade flash-bang?
Flashbulbs don't go bang. She said she was a nerd, bogie; nerds have model rocket and electronic stuff around.
>Too damn many wannabe mall ninjas. Simplicity works, especially for folks who don't have the time/inclination to dedicate their lives to paranoia.
True. But then taping steak knives everywhere is hardly non-paranoid, and not likely to be any use to a small untrained female against a large street fighter intruder. Ditto for baseball bats.
RE long guns: most long guns are not sized for females. The length of pull is too long for their narrow shoulders. They are unwieldy inside, and hard to hide in convenient locations for quick access. This is not as true of carbines (Winchester does have a Youth Model 94), and stocks can be cut down... but telling a female non-shooter to buy a standard-size shotgun is not giving them the quickest way to effective self-defense. Would you like to use a 5-foot long 8 gauge with a 24" LOP indoors? OK, yes, you would, but I mean if you weren't one of the nuts on this forum?
Of course, if we shooters had done our jobs, most females would have already taken pistol shooting in high school and be knowledgeable (and OK, probably own shotguns).
H Romberg
Member
In Chicago:
Go to the nearest BOAT US (marine suply) store. They sell emergency signaling flare pistols that shoot .12 guage phosphorous flares. Crispy critters anyone?
They cost about $35.00 and come with 3 flares. Buy two, since they are single shot, and whoever shows up might not be alone. They're slow to load, (like a break open shotgun) but at inside the room range, the sight of two .12 ga bores pointed at them should get any bad guys gone really quick.
DO NOT use shotgun ammo in these pistols. They're plastic, and can't take the pressure.
Go to the nearest BOAT US (marine suply) store. They sell emergency signaling flare pistols that shoot .12 guage phosphorous flares. Crispy critters anyone?
They cost about $35.00 and come with 3 flares. Buy two, since they are single shot, and whoever shows up might not be alone. They're slow to load, (like a break open shotgun) but at inside the room range, the sight of two .12 ga bores pointed at them should get any bad guys gone really quick.
DO NOT use shotgun ammo in these pistols. They're plastic, and can't take the pressure.
As always I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure that in Chicago those are still considered handguns ( they use a chemical propellant right ? ) and as such illeagle. I believe it would still be a felony.:banghead:
One thing I should mention. In Chicago it is illeagle to have handguns BUT if a honest person uses them inside their dwelling to defend themselves the authorities frequently do NOT prosecute, especially if the person using it is a female or senior citizen.
But there are no guarentees and if you get caught with it and you will get charged unless the LEO takes pity on you and does not report it.
Major risks either way.
NukemJim
PS I hate the situation as well. I've already been mugged once and have to go into a hospital in a bad neighborhood at all hours of the night for emergency procedures and would LOVE to be able to CCW.
telomerase
Member
shotguns, 12-gauge flares
>There are shotguns made for youth and bantam sized that fit women nicely.
Yes, there are, and a woman who is "into" guns would already have one. Some of my female friends are avid trap shooters (or skeet, I get those species mixed up). My point is not about female shooters, but about novices.
12-gauge flares: I do not know the Chicago legalities. I do know that I have fired six rounds of 12-gauge flare into a gasoline-soaked cardboard box at ten feet. None of them penetrated the box or ignited it. 25mm flares are presumably a different animal, but 12-gauge flares are surprisingly safe. I could throw a rock more effectively.
>There are shotguns made for youth and bantam sized that fit women nicely.
Yes, there are, and a woman who is "into" guns would already have one. Some of my female friends are avid trap shooters (or skeet, I get those species mixed up). My point is not about female shooters, but about novices.
12-gauge flares: I do not know the Chicago legalities. I do know that I have fired six rounds of 12-gauge flare into a gasoline-soaked cardboard box at ten feet. None of them penetrated the box or ignited it. 25mm flares are presumably a different animal, but 12-gauge flares are surprisingly safe. I could throw a rock more effectively.
Volpe
Member
Hi and welcome aboard. Life unfortunately has some very real aspects. Even though you say you are not ready for a gun the sad reality is (in my opinion) the ONLY answer. Everything else is secondary by far. When it comes down to you and somebody else you have to be prepared. Kinda like having a fire extingusher--you have one sitting there but hope you never have to use it, its just a tool but a very important one that could save you're life.
Now with that said let me offer some ideas for you to follow. First, I would find a school there that you can learn how to handle the firearm with confindence and saftey. Thats a must and it has to come first. Second, where permissable get a handgun. If this cant be done then if I were you I would get a good semi auto .22 rifle. I know I'm gonna catch alot of flack for saying that but believe me a .22 can be deadly--trust it. I dont know you're psyical stature but anybody can handle a .22. With a good semi auto like a ruger 10/22 if the first shot dosnt do the trick you have 9 more instantly ready. Learn to shoot it well, practice is cheap with it, and you will be well armed. Third and finally, remember the responsabilty that goes along with gun ownership. Just because you have a gun dosnt mean you can shoot anybody. It has to be justified and if it isnt the legal consenquences can be staggering. Usually you can figure out if its going to be justified pretty quick. You will know when you feel you're life is in danger. If you think you can handle it a 20 guage shotgun is a better weapon--but I dont know you to make that decision for you.
Personally, if I didnt have a firearm around I would feel like I was totally naked at Sunday mass. For me its alittle easier because I like guns but my wife feels good about the fact that we have one and know how to use it. She feels safer with it around after reading everything thats going on in this world even close to home every day. We dont dwell on it, play with it or for the most part pay any attention to it. Again, its kinda just like the fire extingusher that sits there too.
You're biggest weapon is to be aware--pay attention. Dont lose sleep, just be aware. You know a guy once told me that if I bought a spare tire for my boat trailer that I would probably never get a flat. I've owned guns all my adult life (thats 40+ years) and never once had a flat, but I sure sleep good.....
Now with that said let me offer some ideas for you to follow. First, I would find a school there that you can learn how to handle the firearm with confindence and saftey. Thats a must and it has to come first. Second, where permissable get a handgun. If this cant be done then if I were you I would get a good semi auto .22 rifle. I know I'm gonna catch alot of flack for saying that but believe me a .22 can be deadly--trust it. I dont know you're psyical stature but anybody can handle a .22. With a good semi auto like a ruger 10/22 if the first shot dosnt do the trick you have 9 more instantly ready. Learn to shoot it well, practice is cheap with it, and you will be well armed. Third and finally, remember the responsabilty that goes along with gun ownership. Just because you have a gun dosnt mean you can shoot anybody. It has to be justified and if it isnt the legal consenquences can be staggering. Usually you can figure out if its going to be justified pretty quick. You will know when you feel you're life is in danger. If you think you can handle it a 20 guage shotgun is a better weapon--but I dont know you to make that decision for you.
Personally, if I didnt have a firearm around I would feel like I was totally naked at Sunday mass. For me its alittle easier because I like guns but my wife feels good about the fact that we have one and know how to use it. She feels safer with it around after reading everything thats going on in this world even close to home every day. We dont dwell on it, play with it or for the most part pay any attention to it. Again, its kinda just like the fire extingusher that sits there too.
You're biggest weapon is to be aware--pay attention. Dont lose sleep, just be aware. You know a guy once told me that if I bought a spare tire for my boat trailer that I would probably never get a flat. I've owned guns all my adult life (thats 40+ years) and never once had a flat, but I sure sleep good.....
The Seattle Police Department (SPD), has issued a report on their implementation and first years use of the M26 Taser.
The SPD report of 5/02, shows that the M26 Taser is an effective less than lethal tool for use in temporarily disabling or stopping a suspect/attacker.
Per the literature, a Taser won't kill, so if taken away from you in a struggle, it most likely won't be used to kill you. And if for some reason, it gets into the hands of a child, it probably won't kill another child.
The SPD 18 page report is available on the web as a PDF file:
http://www.cityofseattle.net/police/Publications/Special/M26Taser.PDF
A text version of the report is available on my site at http://www.pointshooting.com/taser1.htm
A shorter digest with pics is available at http://www.pointshooting.com/taserd.htm
Info on the M18 for civilian use (the cartridge darts have a range of 15 feet versus the police version which have a range of 21 feet), is available from Taser International at www.taser.com
The SPD report of 5/02, shows that the M26 Taser is an effective less than lethal tool for use in temporarily disabling or stopping a suspect/attacker.
Per the literature, a Taser won't kill, so if taken away from you in a struggle, it most likely won't be used to kill you. And if for some reason, it gets into the hands of a child, it probably won't kill another child.
The SPD 18 page report is available on the web as a PDF file:
http://www.cityofseattle.net/police/Publications/Special/M26Taser.PDF
A text version of the report is available on my site at http://www.pointshooting.com/taser1.htm
A shorter digest with pics is available at http://www.pointshooting.com/taserd.htm
Info on the M18 for civilian use (the cartridge darts have a range of 15 feet versus the police version which have a range of 21 feet), is available from Taser International at www.taser.com
dance varmint
Member
Jim, are there any penalties in Chicago for using a corked bokken?
So far Taser is in IMHO best legal usable answer I have seen ( Remember she said she is not ready for a gun. ) Unfortunetly the best options, firearms, are not viable
Just remember under Illinois law you can not carry it outside your home. The charge is the same as carrying a firearm. ( Do NOT ask me to explain the insanities of the law in Illinois/Chicago )
Be sure to buy extra practice cartridges.
NukemJim
Just remember under Illinois law you can not carry it outside your home. The charge is the same as carrying a firearm. ( Do NOT ask me to explain the insanities of the law in Illinois/Chicago )
Be sure to buy extra practice cartridges.
NukemJim
No4Mk1*
Member
I second the MP5 since nothing says go away like a submachinegun.
Seriously...
Have you re-keyed your locks since you moved in? How long is the deadbolt? How solid is your door? Does your door have glass to break and unlock the deadbolt? Do you have a peephole? How long are the screws holding the plate that the deadbolt engages? Are those screws going into wood, sheet metal, or thin air?
In general I would say that exterior lights are good. Some interior lighting is good as long as it does not let people see what is going on inside.
Go to GoodWill and buy an old pair of mens shoes and put them on the back porch so they can be seen from the ground below. Maybe outside the front door too if the hallway is messy. My size 14 would work well.
I'd concentrate on getting a security system that would call the police if the front door or back porch (window/door?) is broken into. A motion sensor covering parts of the interior would be nice but that may be complicated with a roommate. I wouldn't put much faith into blunt or edged weapons as they are trumped if the Bad guy smiles and shows you his pistol and asks you to kindly put your knife, bat, or whatever down. I think the burglar alarm going off would be much more likely to convince an ARMED intruder to leave than seeing a pretty girl with a blunt object in her hand. That said, a security system has drawbacks in that:
1. You have to have it on.
2. Your roomate might not turn it on.
3. "Smart" bad guys will cut the phone/power which will disable basic systems without backups.
4. Security systems do not really provide "security" in that the bad guy has plenty of time to do and take whatever he wants before the police arrive.
Unfortunately I cannot think of a way of preventing a few determined attackers from harming you unless you have a way to put several men on the ground in short order. As far as I know, firearms are the only way to do this. Unfortunately all a gun can do for you is make it a fair fight, not ensure success.
Since you seem interested in owning firearms at some point, I suggest you go ahead and get some experience with one. You should be able to find some instruction from a local range. Since you are limited to long arms, I would suggest learning how to shoot with a semiauto .22 rifle. From there you may want to just use a .22 for defense, or you may want a lever action "cowboy" rifle chambered in a more powerful round or of course the shotgun as has been mentioned. A few of these can be broken down small enough to not look like a long gun when carrying from the car to your room.
The roommate and unknown guests may be prevented access to the gun by means of locks which come with most guns now, but then you have to remember to unlock it whenever you are there.
Good luck with the roommate.
Seriously...
Have you re-keyed your locks since you moved in? How long is the deadbolt? How solid is your door? Does your door have glass to break and unlock the deadbolt? Do you have a peephole? How long are the screws holding the plate that the deadbolt engages? Are those screws going into wood, sheet metal, or thin air?
In general I would say that exterior lights are good. Some interior lighting is good as long as it does not let people see what is going on inside.
Go to GoodWill and buy an old pair of mens shoes and put them on the back porch so they can be seen from the ground below. Maybe outside the front door too if the hallway is messy. My size 14 would work well.
I'd concentrate on getting a security system that would call the police if the front door or back porch (window/door?) is broken into. A motion sensor covering parts of the interior would be nice but that may be complicated with a roommate. I wouldn't put much faith into blunt or edged weapons as they are trumped if the Bad guy smiles and shows you his pistol and asks you to kindly put your knife, bat, or whatever down. I think the burglar alarm going off would be much more likely to convince an ARMED intruder to leave than seeing a pretty girl with a blunt object in her hand. That said, a security system has drawbacks in that:
1. You have to have it on.
2. Your roomate might not turn it on.
3. "Smart" bad guys will cut the phone/power which will disable basic systems without backups.
4. Security systems do not really provide "security" in that the bad guy has plenty of time to do and take whatever he wants before the police arrive.
Unfortunately I cannot think of a way of preventing a few determined attackers from harming you unless you have a way to put several men on the ground in short order. As far as I know, firearms are the only way to do this. Unfortunately all a gun can do for you is make it a fair fight, not ensure success.
Since you seem interested in owning firearms at some point, I suggest you go ahead and get some experience with one. You should be able to find some instruction from a local range. Since you are limited to long arms, I would suggest learning how to shoot with a semiauto .22 rifle. From there you may want to just use a .22 for defense, or you may want a lever action "cowboy" rifle chambered in a more powerful round or of course the shotgun as has been mentioned. A few of these can be broken down small enough to not look like a long gun when carrying from the car to your room.
The roommate and unknown guests may be prevented access to the gun by means of locks which come with most guns now, but then you have to remember to unlock it whenever you are there.
Good luck with the roommate.
In regards to the suggestion of a Flare Gun
Found a reference to flare gun shooting
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/13/P...cident_hu.shtml
Basicly a 13year old shot in the head by a friend. Small laceration, possible concussion. Mom stated " it looked worse than it was"
It would appear that a flare gun may not be as effective as suggested at least from this incident.
NukemJim
Found a reference to flare gun shooting
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/13/P...cident_hu.shtml
Basicly a 13year old shot in the head by a friend. Small laceration, possible concussion. Mom stated " it looked worse than it was"
It would appear that a flare gun may not be as effective as suggested at least from this incident.
NukemJim
dav
Member
It's been a month and she hasn't come back. I hope she is ok.
dragonesse91
Member
Hi L: I agree with all the great tips everyone has posted. Just a reminder though, it is the person who lives nearby and observes you, who may end up being the predator. Be aware of this and be very wary of having anyone you are not formally introduced to into your home, even if they beg for a favor! Many women are assaulted through trickery, example: ..."Let me give you a hand with those groceries." I had it happen to me, I was a young woman, first apartment, no car, heavy bag of groceries-he was an Optometry (about 6'5" and very muscle-y)student at the school my sister worked at. After being thrown down and jumped on I bit down hard on his shoulder and held on. He stopped the assault and fled. Through my sister, I was able to get him informally disciplined. I don't knowI was pretty vulnerable and stupid-but it worked out. Have your roommate read this-perhaps she'll get a sense of discernment. I think the dog and alarm and self-defense measures and training are really good-do them. Best wishes and remeber to pray for your safety. God is the best Watchman of All. In later years as I drew closer to Him-He protected me many times, unless I was hard-headed!! D91
NRA Instructor
Member
You have received some excellent suggestions. Here is one more idea for you and something you can do now.
Get a tactical flashlight. The beam is so bright it will blind anyone for a short time, long enough for you to (1) get away (2) get help (3) take control. They are small enough that you can also carry it with you outside.
Surefire is one I know of and it's currently available to NRA members for under $80. See their web site for more informtion - www.surefire.com.
Inexpensive help for someone in your situation and no training needed.
Get a tactical flashlight. The beam is so bright it will blind anyone for a short time, long enough for you to (1) get away (2) get help (3) take control. They are small enough that you can also carry it with you outside.
Surefire is one I know of and it's currently available to NRA members for under $80. See their web site for more informtion - www.surefire.com.
Inexpensive help for someone in your situation and no training needed.
Richardson
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2003
- Messages
- 172
Being an Illinois resident, living near Chicago, I strongly recommend....
(1) Apply for a FOID today! It can take 60 (or was it 90) days for the State Police to process your application. You cannot legally purchase or possess any firearm or any ammunition without this card. IF you find yourself in a situation where you quickly need to get a gun, the FOID process will leave you crippled, or committing a felony, and they will prosecute.
(2) Chicago limits legal knife length to 2 inches of blade (or thereabouts). In your house you can have a sword, but on the streets you're looking at time in the slammer if you have a 2.5 or 3" blade. Stun guns, nunchuckas, & clubs are also illegal to carry. This means that you have to either have something that does not appear to be a weapon, or carry a weapon & risk jail time. Get educated on the law code, and investigate options.
On the street:
(a) learn to use a Kubotan and carry it,
(b) always have a large diameter pen, with a pointy cover, in your pocket (improvised Kubotan).
(c) take up martial arts.
At home: baseball bats, good locks, good lighting (like an M6 Surefire), a large dog, etc.
(3) IF you find that you eventually want a gun, consider whether you're thinking of needing it only at home, or also on the street. If you need it on the street, you'll need a handgun, which is illegal for you while you live in Chicago. If you're going to get a handgun, get educated & get training & learn how you can hide it on your person. Also, if you're thinking of using it indoors, then you want/need electronic hearing protection. This will protect your hearing, while enhancing your ability to hear.
(4) If you're going to get a long arm, you've got to choose either a shotgun or a rifle. For shotguns, I'm going to recommend a Remington 1100 with a 16" barrel and a magazine extender. It is easier to use & has lower recoil than a pump, and is extremely reliable. A 12 gauge is best, but a 20 gauge (smaller than the 12 guage) would be sufficient if recoil is an issue you can't overcome. For rifles you might want to consider a .223 semi-automatic carbine (like a 16" barrelled AR15). It won't penetrate as many walls as a pistol or larger caliber, but is easy to handle, effective, and has light recoil.
Keeping observant and recognizing that bad men exist are your primary defenses.
God Bless,
Richardson
(1) Apply for a FOID today! It can take 60 (or was it 90) days for the State Police to process your application. You cannot legally purchase or possess any firearm or any ammunition without this card. IF you find yourself in a situation where you quickly need to get a gun, the FOID process will leave you crippled, or committing a felony, and they will prosecute.
(2) Chicago limits legal knife length to 2 inches of blade (or thereabouts). In your house you can have a sword, but on the streets you're looking at time in the slammer if you have a 2.5 or 3" blade. Stun guns, nunchuckas, & clubs are also illegal to carry. This means that you have to either have something that does not appear to be a weapon, or carry a weapon & risk jail time. Get educated on the law code, and investigate options.
On the street:
(a) learn to use a Kubotan and carry it,
(b) always have a large diameter pen, with a pointy cover, in your pocket (improvised Kubotan).
(c) take up martial arts.
At home: baseball bats, good locks, good lighting (like an M6 Surefire), a large dog, etc.
(3) IF you find that you eventually want a gun, consider whether you're thinking of needing it only at home, or also on the street. If you need it on the street, you'll need a handgun, which is illegal for you while you live in Chicago. If you're going to get a handgun, get educated & get training & learn how you can hide it on your person. Also, if you're thinking of using it indoors, then you want/need electronic hearing protection. This will protect your hearing, while enhancing your ability to hear.
(4) If you're going to get a long arm, you've got to choose either a shotgun or a rifle. For shotguns, I'm going to recommend a Remington 1100 with a 16" barrel and a magazine extender. It is easier to use & has lower recoil than a pump, and is extremely reliable. A 12 gauge is best, but a 20 gauge (smaller than the 12 guage) would be sufficient if recoil is an issue you can't overcome. For rifles you might want to consider a .223 semi-automatic carbine (like a 16" barrelled AR15). It won't penetrate as many walls as a pistol or larger caliber, but is easy to handle, effective, and has light recoil.
Keeping observant and recognizing that bad men exist are your primary defenses.
God Bless,
Richardson
MrAcheson
Member
Get a shotgun. One that fits and has a level of recoil you can handle. Practice with it to gain proficiency. Practice more. Get better locks on the doors and play "if I was going to break into my apartment" games to see what needs improvement. Take up a combative martial art if you have the time, but guns beat fists or sticks or knives. Keep in mind your attacker will probably be male, larger, and stronger than you so guns make a lot more sense than contact weapons.
As for the bokken suggestion, yeah they're weapons, but I own two of them and if I thought I'd need to use them for something other than forms I would buy a cutting blade. Keep in mind a sword that is a functional weapon will run more than $35. Also keep in mind that swinging a big sword in an apartment doesn't work well because you tend to hit stuff like walls and lamps which robs power from your blows. This is why samurai had two swords, the short sword was for fighting indoors or in confining spaces. If you still want to try swords/bokken then let me also sum up the Book of Five Rings for you. Hit him in the head. If thats not possible use a real or fake blow to his hands so you can hit him in the head.
As for the bokken suggestion, yeah they're weapons, but I own two of them and if I thought I'd need to use them for something other than forms I would buy a cutting blade. Keep in mind a sword that is a functional weapon will run more than $35. Also keep in mind that swinging a big sword in an apartment doesn't work well because you tend to hit stuff like walls and lamps which robs power from your blows. This is why samurai had two swords, the short sword was for fighting indoors or in confining spaces. If you still want to try swords/bokken then let me also sum up the Book of Five Rings for you. Hit him in the head. If thats not possible use a real or fake blow to his hands so you can hit him in the head.
dance varmint
Member
Don't get a shotgun with a 16 inch barrel as erroneously suggested two posts up. The minimum legal shotgun barrel is 18 inches. 16 is fine for rifle.
Richardson
Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2003
- Messages
- 172
My sincerest apologies.... I was confused. I had forgotten that there is a difference in the laws regarding barrel lengths of shotguns & rifles. Dance Varmint is (obviously) correct.
Richardson
Richardson
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