Gatorfan83
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- Jan 24, 2008
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- 4
I use a romanian made ak47 for home defense an i like it better then the ar15, but that is just my preference, you should get what you are comfortable
with.
with.
Semi-automatic assault rifles in self-defense, such as AK-47 and AR-15?
- Thread starter GuyWithQuestions
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Rockerga
Member
Home Defense
Back to the original intent of the topic: The best home defense weapon is a pump shotgun! PERIOD!
I own several weapons; 9mm, .45, and even an AK and I would not even think about letting any of them loose especially the AK against someone in my house due to living in a subdivision! I could easily kill a neighbor as the perp with any other than a shotgun.
Additionally a shotgun "pumping" should send "anyone with even a thread of common sense" running or they deserve to be maggot-food.
My .02
Back to the original intent of the topic: The best home defense weapon is a pump shotgun! PERIOD!
I own several weapons; 9mm, .45, and even an AK and I would not even think about letting any of them loose especially the AK against someone in my house due to living in a subdivision! I could easily kill a neighbor as the perp with any other than a shotgun.
Additionally a shotgun "pumping" should send "anyone with even a thread of common sense" running or they deserve to be maggot-food.
My .02
Give the Guy a break
Dear GuyWithQuestions,
A ways back you asked to compare a full-power rifle cartridge with the intermediate ctgs of the Ak-pattern or AR-pattern rifles. Unless I skipped the answer trying to avoid the 'how exactly should I phrase this' posts; the short answer on that is that the classic 30-06 or 308 or even 8mm Mauser (and many others) would be devastating on humans at self-defense ranges.
They are not typically chosen for several reasons: its overkill for a human (i.e. the intermediate ctgs do just fine), overpenetration of walls/bad guys etc (you would have to custom load frangible bullets in the 30-06 to mitigate this), BLAST is deafening fired indoors, the platform (rifle) is long and cumbersome indoors, etc.
Still, if its what you have it sure will put down a Bad Guy.
But you seem to have settled on the AK- or AR-pattern for your choice of rifle. The Saiga's you mentioned get rave reviews for the most part, see here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=Search&CODE=getnew so they would be a fine choice. But alot of other 'brands' of ak-style rifles get just as many good reviews. Maybe check here: http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/search.php?do=getnew
Also, if you are not yet settled on the 7.62x39mm chambering; an AK-74 pattern rifle in 5.45x39mm are reliable, fun to shoot, and have the advantage right now of the availability of reasonably priced ammo, see: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bulgarian__WASP__5.45x39_FMJ.html among other places. The Aim isn't even the best price! But its convenient to order from them.
On the AR-style platform, one REALLY nice feature is the versatility of the modifications that have been created for it. You can stick that home defense light and laser on it on the barrel, on the front sight, on the handguards, etc etc- many possibilities. The accessory mods for the AK-types are many, but not nearly as much as the AR.
Hope this helps.
C-
Dear GuyWithQuestions,
A ways back you asked to compare a full-power rifle cartridge with the intermediate ctgs of the Ak-pattern or AR-pattern rifles. Unless I skipped the answer trying to avoid the 'how exactly should I phrase this' posts; the short answer on that is that the classic 30-06 or 308 or even 8mm Mauser (and many others) would be devastating on humans at self-defense ranges.
They are not typically chosen for several reasons: its overkill for a human (i.e. the intermediate ctgs do just fine), overpenetration of walls/bad guys etc (you would have to custom load frangible bullets in the 30-06 to mitigate this), BLAST is deafening fired indoors, the platform (rifle) is long and cumbersome indoors, etc.
Still, if its what you have it sure will put down a Bad Guy.
But you seem to have settled on the AK- or AR-pattern for your choice of rifle. The Saiga's you mentioned get rave reviews for the most part, see here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=Search&CODE=getnew so they would be a fine choice. But alot of other 'brands' of ak-style rifles get just as many good reviews. Maybe check here: http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/search.php?do=getnew
Also, if you are not yet settled on the 7.62x39mm chambering; an AK-74 pattern rifle in 5.45x39mm are reliable, fun to shoot, and have the advantage right now of the availability of reasonably priced ammo, see: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bulgarian__WASP__5.45x39_FMJ.html among other places. The Aim isn't even the best price! But its convenient to order from them.
On the AR-style platform, one REALLY nice feature is the versatility of the modifications that have been created for it. You can stick that home defense light and laser on it on the barrel, on the front sight, on the handguards, etc etc- many possibilities. The accessory mods for the AK-types are many, but not nearly as much as the AR.
Hope this helps.
C-
Last edited:
The AR-15 crowd has reviews o these
Maybe you'd be interested in this:
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&&cat=33&
C-
Maybe you'd be interested in this:
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&&cat=33&
C-
briansmithwins
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2005
- Messages
- 4,631
"The best home defense weapon is a pump shotgun! PERIOD!"
No. Not for me. I live next door to an apartment complex in a town house. I don't have a safe direction to fire anything w/o possibly impacting a residence outside my house. That being said, the weapon I grab in the night is my AK loaded with ballistic tipped thin shell JHPs. Those have the least penetration ability of any weapon I own, 9mm, .45, 12 gage (loaded w/#4 buck) or the SKS. Having 30 of them on tap is also nice.
I actually sold my pump shotgun after shooting a 3 gun stage that required engaging targets while prone. The FN SLP that replaced is is faster, smoother, can be shot 1 handed or prone, and isn't subject to being short-stroked.
I've found that people that thing the 12 gage pump is the end all and be all of hand weapons don't get out much. OTOH, I'm also skeptical about th bowel-loosening quality of pump-guns too. BSW
No. Not for me. I live next door to an apartment complex in a town house. I don't have a safe direction to fire anything w/o possibly impacting a residence outside my house. That being said, the weapon I grab in the night is my AK loaded with ballistic tipped thin shell JHPs. Those have the least penetration ability of any weapon I own, 9mm, .45, 12 gage (loaded w/#4 buck) or the SKS. Having 30 of them on tap is also nice.
I actually sold my pump shotgun after shooting a 3 gun stage that required engaging targets while prone. The FN SLP that replaced is is faster, smoother, can be shot 1 handed or prone, and isn't subject to being short-stroked.
I've found that people that thing the 12 gage pump is the end all and be all of hand weapons don't get out much. OTOH, I'm also skeptical about th bowel-loosening quality of pump-guns too. BSW
Rockerga
Member
In Defense of Shotguns and my reasoning
1- Shotguns are more apt to hit a target in the dark at any range (Remember this is home defense we are discussing) than a long rifle or handgun running into walls in the dark trying to site your assailant. This is not perfection at your discretion...this is night-time warfare with sleep still in your eyes. YOU do not have your night vision and the perp does!
2- I have had the luck to be able to shoot in an actual neighborhood that was to be torn-down for commercial building. Not hollywood structures or training structures but real live homes in a real subdivision. I went in with a "friend" after the area was cleared of all humans and fenced. We did some live-fire enactments just to see what "possible" damage different rounds would deliver in this "home defense" environment. I do agree that it is the actual round used and not the caliber that is the decisive culprit however. We did not have every imaginable round at our disposal but only what we carried. What we actually used in the handguns is long gone from my memory, but we did use Wolf 122 gr HP and 122 gr FMJ in the 7.62 X 39 AK variant.
From our position: The 9mm passed through three interior walls, the outer wall of "our" house and penetrated the neighbors outer siding into the wall but not entering the other house. The .45 penetrated the outer wall of the neighbors house after the same trial from the same position but did not go into an interior wall in house #2. Both 7.62 rounds passed through two interior walls of the neighbors house.
The above were indicative of rounds not fired directly into the studs but after all there is more space in a wall that structure so rounds that struck studs only were not prone to as much distance or penetration after an initial strike. So all I am saying is this is a real life high probability with hi-powered rounds fired from a typical home.
That is why I use a shotgun in my home. I can awake to the commotion, point in the general direction, call the police and go back to sleep until they arrive.
The below is courtesy of: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh00-e.htm
General features of shotgun.
Main advantages of shotguns are their versatility and short-range firepower. Shotguns can fire multiple projectiles of various sizes, creating a lethal pattern, which will increase chances of hitting target, or single large projectile, powerful enough to drop down a large brown bear, or incapacitate a human being protected in all but the heaviest body armour. Shotguns also can fire special purpose ammunition, such as door buster slugs, and even a high explosive and incendiary rounds, as well as the less lethal ammunition, useful for riot control and other police operations. Most, if not all modern combat shotguns are magazine fed repeaters, with the underbarrel tubular magazines being the most common type. Those magazines offer a sleek, slim profile of the gun, but are slow to reload. Some recently developed combat shotguns featured a detachable, box-type magazines, which can be replaced very quickly. Few combat shotguns were developed with rotary, revolver-like magazines or drum-type magazines of relatively large capacity (10-12, and up to 28 rounds), but those magazines are extremely bulky, heavy, expensive and sometimes slow to reload.
The disadvantages of the combat shotguns are the limited effective range of fire (about 50-70 meters with standard buckshot, up to 100-150 meters with specially designed subcaliber or fleschette loadings).
My .02
1- Shotguns are more apt to hit a target in the dark at any range (Remember this is home defense we are discussing) than a long rifle or handgun running into walls in the dark trying to site your assailant. This is not perfection at your discretion...this is night-time warfare with sleep still in your eyes. YOU do not have your night vision and the perp does!
2- I have had the luck to be able to shoot in an actual neighborhood that was to be torn-down for commercial building. Not hollywood structures or training structures but real live homes in a real subdivision. I went in with a "friend" after the area was cleared of all humans and fenced. We did some live-fire enactments just to see what "possible" damage different rounds would deliver in this "home defense" environment. I do agree that it is the actual round used and not the caliber that is the decisive culprit however. We did not have every imaginable round at our disposal but only what we carried. What we actually used in the handguns is long gone from my memory, but we did use Wolf 122 gr HP and 122 gr FMJ in the 7.62 X 39 AK variant.
From our position: The 9mm passed through three interior walls, the outer wall of "our" house and penetrated the neighbors outer siding into the wall but not entering the other house. The .45 penetrated the outer wall of the neighbors house after the same trial from the same position but did not go into an interior wall in house #2. Both 7.62 rounds passed through two interior walls of the neighbors house.
The above were indicative of rounds not fired directly into the studs but after all there is more space in a wall that structure so rounds that struck studs only were not prone to as much distance or penetration after an initial strike. So all I am saying is this is a real life high probability with hi-powered rounds fired from a typical home.
That is why I use a shotgun in my home. I can awake to the commotion, point in the general direction, call the police and go back to sleep until they arrive.
The below is courtesy of: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh00-e.htm
General features of shotgun.
Main advantages of shotguns are their versatility and short-range firepower. Shotguns can fire multiple projectiles of various sizes, creating a lethal pattern, which will increase chances of hitting target, or single large projectile, powerful enough to drop down a large brown bear, or incapacitate a human being protected in all but the heaviest body armour. Shotguns also can fire special purpose ammunition, such as door buster slugs, and even a high explosive and incendiary rounds, as well as the less lethal ammunition, useful for riot control and other police operations. Most, if not all modern combat shotguns are magazine fed repeaters, with the underbarrel tubular magazines being the most common type. Those magazines offer a sleek, slim profile of the gun, but are slow to reload. Some recently developed combat shotguns featured a detachable, box-type magazines, which can be replaced very quickly. Few combat shotguns were developed with rotary, revolver-like magazines or drum-type magazines of relatively large capacity (10-12, and up to 28 rounds), but those magazines are extremely bulky, heavy, expensive and sometimes slow to reload.
The disadvantages of the combat shotguns are the limited effective range of fire (about 50-70 meters with standard buckshot, up to 100-150 meters with specially designed subcaliber or fleschette loadings).
My .02
briansmithwins
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2005
- Messages
- 4,631
"1- Shotguns are more apt to hit a target in the dark at any range (Remember this is home defense we are discussing) than a long rifle or handgun running into walls in the dark trying to site your assailant."
You really believe this?!
I shot this target with 4 rounds of Fiocchi 27 pellet #4 buck AT 25 YARDS!
You may observe that most of the pellets hit the man-sized target? This was with a cylinder choke and a 18" barrel.
If you think a shotgun will 'fill a room' with pellets, you have never patterned a shotgun with buckshot.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm also has good information about how shotguns actually work.
BTW, FMJ 7.62x39 does go thru buildings like grass thru a goose: I would not recommend using it in a urban area. BSW
You really believe this?!
I shot this target with 4 rounds of Fiocchi 27 pellet #4 buck AT 25 YARDS!
You may observe that most of the pellets hit the man-sized target? This was with a cylinder choke and a 18" barrel.
If you think a shotgun will 'fill a room' with pellets, you have never patterned a shotgun with buckshot.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm also has good information about how shotguns actually work.
BTW, FMJ 7.62x39 does go thru buildings like grass thru a goose: I would not recommend using it in a urban area. BSW
Rockerga, head over to the shotgun forum and search for some target that guys have used to pattern their shotguns. As briansmithwins mentioned, a shotgun will not fill a room with shot and at most home engagement distances, patterns are often very tight.
You must aim with a shotgun.
Plus, a .223 AR can carry 30 rounds in the mag. I haven't seen any 30-rd shotguns available at my LGS. .223 ammo is also available in a very wide variety of types, some of which are designed to minimize penetration through barriers.
And since the link is so good, I'll repeat it: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
You must aim with a shotgun.
Plus, a .223 AR can carry 30 rounds in the mag. I haven't seen any 30-rd shotguns available at my LGS. .223 ammo is also available in a very wide variety of types, some of which are designed to minimize penetration through barriers.
And since the link is so good, I'll repeat it: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
Rockerga
Member
Shotgun newbie!
I admit I am a newbie to shotguns hands down. I guess I am more terrified by what I have seen .45, 9mm much less .223 or 7.62 do that scares me in a home defense mode. I realize a shotgun still must be aimed but at least a little "off" is more reliable than with a single projectile in that environment.
I love this place and will visit that link. Thanks guys!
I admit I am a newbie to shotguns hands down. I guess I am more terrified by what I have seen .45, 9mm much less .223 or 7.62 do that scares me in a home defense mode. I realize a shotgun still must be aimed but at least a little "off" is more reliable than with a single projectile in that environment.
I love this place and will visit that link. Thanks guys!
Rockerga
Member
Just finished the article (Thanks again) and all I have have to say is that I must be better than I think I am with a shotgun....in the little time spent shooting them. (Always had rifles or handguns)
I really thought the spread would be much wider-spaced at that distance. Excellent education!
I really thought the spread would be much wider-spaced at that distance. Excellent education!
"And knowing is half the battle!"
Glad you're learning, Rockerga. I too used to think that the shotgun was the be-all, end-all of home defense. Of course, the best tool for the job is the one you are most proficient with.
The problem with penetration is that anything that penetrates enough to stop a human being will sail through many layers of sheetrock. This includes buckshot, slugs, 9mm, .45 ACP, and .223. Bullet construction can help mitigate this, but it is a balancing act.
As far as sheer devastation to a target 10 feet away with a perfect shot to COM, I'd bet the award would go to the shotgun. Of course, we don't always make perfect shots. And not everyone can handle a shotgun. And those that can handle a shotgun may not be very quick on follow up shots using full-powered buckshot.
In these instances, an M4-style carbine would probably be better.
But if the homeowner is in someway physically handicapped, a J- or K-frame revolver with .32H&R Mag or .38 Specials may be more appropriate.
Glad you're learning, Rockerga. I too used to think that the shotgun was the be-all, end-all of home defense. Of course, the best tool for the job is the one you are most proficient with.
The problem with penetration is that anything that penetrates enough to stop a human being will sail through many layers of sheetrock. This includes buckshot, slugs, 9mm, .45 ACP, and .223. Bullet construction can help mitigate this, but it is a balancing act.
As far as sheer devastation to a target 10 feet away with a perfect shot to COM, I'd bet the award would go to the shotgun. Of course, we don't always make perfect shots. And not everyone can handle a shotgun. And those that can handle a shotgun may not be very quick on follow up shots using full-powered buckshot.
In these instances, an M4-style carbine would probably be better.
But if the homeowner is in someway physically handicapped, a J- or K-frame revolver with .32H&R Mag or .38 Specials may be more appropriate.
Prince Yamato
Member
FWIW, I use the term "Assault Weapon". I don't really care if it's made up. We all know what it means. I make no bones about the fact that I don't hunt and that if I ever used my guns against something living, it would probably be against a person (in self-defense).
I hate political correctness and I can't stand the, "Well you can hunt with AWs too". Yes, you can, but let's be honest, the AK wasn't originally a hunting rifle. Why should we be ashamed of that. 2A doesn't give you the right to hunt, but it does give you the right to defend yourself against enemies, foreign and domestic.
Go into the shop and point to what you want. If you don't see what you want, ask for an AK or an AR. There is no shame in that.
I hate political correctness and I can't stand the, "Well you can hunt with AWs too". Yes, you can, but let's be honest, the AK wasn't originally a hunting rifle. Why should we be ashamed of that. 2A doesn't give you the right to hunt, but it does give you the right to defend yourself against enemies, foreign and domestic.
Go into the shop and point to what you want. If you don't see what you want, ask for an AK or an AR. There is no shame in that.
FMJMIKE
Member
I prefer a M1 Carbine for home defense. Lower muzzle blast and less muzzle flash than AKs and AR-15s. Just use Remington soft points. I guarantee it will stop any aggressor.
Slugless
Member
"semi-auto", "military-type" or "military-pattern" are what I tend to use. (FWIW "-type" is commonly used in industry for this "type" of thing, e.g. "Kleenex-type facial tissues"). EBR is always fun.
There are folks around here with gobs of experience at setting up and shooting AR-type home defense carbines. taliv, TexasRifleman and Rockymountaintactical are guys whose posts I always pay attention to. You might search under their names & home defense.
W.r.t. make, I discovered to my dismay that my Bushmaster M4gery does not feed hollowpoints reliably. It does not have the M4 feed ramp. For a HD carbine I'd see if there was a way to fix it (polishing?) or consider a better upper. I'd certainly consider LMT.
There's a table floating around about the differences between types of ARs, you can search on that, but the table doesn't explain why MPI a bolt is worth doing, if at all. Here's a link that explains some of the issues, credit to dasanii19 at pafoa.org.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/rifles-42/4029-who-makes-best-ar15-page-5.html#post57671
There are folks around here with gobs of experience at setting up and shooting AR-type home defense carbines. taliv, TexasRifleman and Rockymountaintactical are guys whose posts I always pay attention to. You might search under their names & home defense.
W.r.t. make, I discovered to my dismay that my Bushmaster M4gery does not feed hollowpoints reliably. It does not have the M4 feed ramp. For a HD carbine I'd see if there was a way to fix it (polishing?) or consider a better upper. I'd certainly consider LMT.
There's a table floating around about the differences between types of ARs, you can search on that, but the table doesn't explain why MPI a bolt is worth doing, if at all. Here's a link that explains some of the issues, credit to dasanii19 at pafoa.org.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/rifles-42/4029-who-makes-best-ar15-page-5.html#post57671
GuyWithQuestions
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 451
Went to a firearms shop the other day
I visited a firearms shop to see what they had. I asked if they had any military-style semi-automatic rifles and the worker said, "Yes, here's an AR-15 which is modeled after the M-16. We also have this AK-47 style semi-automatic. It's an off-shoot of an AK-47, because it has to be selective fire by definition to be an AK-47. Other than that it's the same." I liked the feel and operation of the AR-15 a lot more, and the magazine and safety is more user friendly. However, I liked the looks of the AK-47 style semi-automatic more.
The store worker said that more people have died from AK-47s and their variants than any other gun and "When we've been talking there have been many more who just died." I asked him if that was in the military world. He said that that is also in the civilian world and in the U.S. (I actually saw some ATF statistic that military-style semi's are very very low in murders while the handguns are the main culprit, but I refrained from starting an argument). He said that they're useful for self-defense, but that a shotgun would be more useful because it doesn't go through exterior walls as easily as rifles and handguns. He said that when he shoots a large animal with a shotgun, it'll hit multiple places all over the body which means it'll be good for self-defense because it'll be lights out for the person who broke in. I asked him about hunting with an AK-47 style semi rifle. He said you can, but that it won't work very well because their rounds aren't allowed in hollow point. I then asked him about buying a machine gun for home defense. He responded with an evil laughter, "You'll be out of ammunition too quickly. I myself don't have a need to own a machine gun."
I visited a firearms shop to see what they had. I asked if they had any military-style semi-automatic rifles and the worker said, "Yes, here's an AR-15 which is modeled after the M-16. We also have this AK-47 style semi-automatic. It's an off-shoot of an AK-47, because it has to be selective fire by definition to be an AK-47. Other than that it's the same." I liked the feel and operation of the AR-15 a lot more, and the magazine and safety is more user friendly. However, I liked the looks of the AK-47 style semi-automatic more.
The store worker said that more people have died from AK-47s and their variants than any other gun and "When we've been talking there have been many more who just died." I asked him if that was in the military world. He said that that is also in the civilian world and in the U.S. (I actually saw some ATF statistic that military-style semi's are very very low in murders while the handguns are the main culprit, but I refrained from starting an argument). He said that they're useful for self-defense, but that a shotgun would be more useful because it doesn't go through exterior walls as easily as rifles and handguns. He said that when he shoots a large animal with a shotgun, it'll hit multiple places all over the body which means it'll be good for self-defense because it'll be lights out for the person who broke in. I asked him about hunting with an AK-47 style semi rifle. He said you can, but that it won't work very well because their rounds aren't allowed in hollow point. I then asked him about buying a machine gun for home defense. He responded with an evil laughter, "You'll be out of ammunition too quickly. I myself don't have a need to own a machine gun."
Uh oh.
While I doubt this is true, it may have to do with the proliferation of the AK-47 design than the round itself. Kinda like saying "more people get hit with F-150s than any other pickup truck." Yeah, probably because more F-150s have been sold per year for the past 20 years than any other pickup truck.
Yep. I believe it was the FBI uniform crime report that gets published annually that said it. Rifles in general aren't very common in crimes. Don't let your facts get in the way of a gun shop commando's myths. It may get ugly.
False. If this was true, everyone would use birdshot for home defense. Bird shot has been proven to be a lousy SD choice.
Hunters that go for mid- to large-size game often prefer rifles but they realize that shooting the animal in the foot is not a good idea. Shot placement is key, whether it's a deer, a moose, or a bad guy.
Huh? Not allowed? Where is this, Jersey? 7.62x39 ammo, the most common AK round, is available in FMJ, JHP, and JSP from a variety of sources both domestic and imported. Some states don't allow FMJ for hunting. An expanding hollow point can be a fine hunting bullet.
I'll agree with him there.
hamourkiller
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 215
Some times we get fixated on a specific gun or ammo or caliber etc. (What would life be like with out the 9mm vs the 45acp etc!).
I would feel greatly armed with any carbine sized rifle / shotgun I had become proficeint with.
I recomend a self defense battery.
1- CAR-15 loaded with WW 64gr power points.
2- Riot shot gun with rifle sights and extension magazine. Loaded with premium buckshot. Sugs available on side saddle.
3-Powerful bedside revolver, preferably .357 / .41 / 44 mag.
Each gun of the battery is for a specific task.
The CAR-15 is capable of delivering large amounts of firepower from close up till out of sight. Also the most capable of fighting multiple targets. Recoil recovery is nill and any solid hit with the soft points will end the fight. Firing rate is high and unrelenting. This gun stays by the Wifes side of the bed.
The riot gun with buckshot and slugs fills the same niche as the CAR-15 but stays beside me.
The powerful revolver is for up close and personal issues. If the BG is close enough that I have to grab it instead of the long guns, then he is way to close and maximum power per shot is required. When you assume you will be using the handgun at belly rubbing distance the reliabilty of the revolver outweighs the shot capcity advantage of the semi auto pistol. Keep the handgun simple and powerful.
But way more important than the weapon is the person and his attitude going into the fight! With proper mindset most any modern weapon will work for you when the chips are down. Just having a certain type of gun does not make you safe, it does enable you to carry the fight to the enemy!
I would feel greatly armed with any carbine sized rifle / shotgun I had become proficeint with.
I recomend a self defense battery.
1- CAR-15 loaded with WW 64gr power points.
2- Riot shot gun with rifle sights and extension magazine. Loaded with premium buckshot. Sugs available on side saddle.
3-Powerful bedside revolver, preferably .357 / .41 / 44 mag.
Each gun of the battery is for a specific task.
The CAR-15 is capable of delivering large amounts of firepower from close up till out of sight. Also the most capable of fighting multiple targets. Recoil recovery is nill and any solid hit with the soft points will end the fight. Firing rate is high and unrelenting. This gun stays by the Wifes side of the bed.
The riot gun with buckshot and slugs fills the same niche as the CAR-15 but stays beside me.
The powerful revolver is for up close and personal issues. If the BG is close enough that I have to grab it instead of the long guns, then he is way to close and maximum power per shot is required. When you assume you will be using the handgun at belly rubbing distance the reliabilty of the revolver outweighs the shot capcity advantage of the semi auto pistol. Keep the handgun simple and powerful.
But way more important than the weapon is the person and his attitude going into the fight! With proper mindset most any modern weapon will work for you when the chips are down. Just having a certain type of gun does not make you safe, it does enable you to carry the fight to the enemy!
ReadyontheRight
Member
Buy a good AR-15 and start shooting in high power rifle competitions.
High Planes Drifter
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,204
There ya go.
Dont complicate this. You're buying a carbine for home defense; not choosing between the last 2 women in the bar at closing time.
Buy the AR, the ergonomics fit you better, thats a hell of alot more important than appearance. Buy one with a 16" barrel, and a collapsible buttstock on it. The shorter overall length makes for fast handling indoors.
Actually, the sound of the pumping shotgun may be the last thing the shotgun pumper hears because he probably won't hear the blast from the bullet that kills him while he's busy trying to chamber a round.
As for penetration - I don't care what you're shooting, you have to assume there will be unexpected penetration. What if it is your children on the other side of the wall? If there's a chance of anyone on the other side of the wall don't shoot. Ever. Period. Remember the rule, "attack a gun, run from a knife." Use alternative defensive tools if there is any reason at all to consider penetration.
Wow. This is a pretty scary statement. If you don't have your night vision or still have sleep in your eyes, you better not be picking up a gun! What if that noise and shadow you're looking to shoot is your child or your wife?
Not that this makes your statement any less scary, but it is more likely that you have your night vision (as in pupil dialation, not clarity of mind) and the perp does not. Hopefully, by the time you're reaching for your gun, your eyes have been open in the dark but the perp is coming in from what is hopefully a lit up street or yard.
SwampWolf
Member
How many times must we hear the myth about the sound of a round being chambered in a shotgun scaring a bad guy away? If that is true, save on the ammo and just make a recording. That'll send him packing!
sarduy
Member
just get an AK47 with a lot of mags and ammo. load the first round that goes into the chamber with blanks!
if the bad-guy break into your house, just shoot the first rounds BANG ! (Blanks) and scream (FREEZE...!!!) but you'll have a live round ready to go if things go bad!
if the bad-guy break into your house, just shoot the first rounds BANG ! (Blanks) and scream (FREEZE...!!!) but you'll have a live round ready to go if things go bad!
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