Semi Custom 1911

[mongo4567]

I'm looking for some advice on a very good 1911. I have a couple of Kimbers and some entry level 1911s. I love them all and I would trust my life to any of them, I'm just looking to get a custom or semi custom. Something that I might carry a little more.

I'm looking in the 1000-2000 range. I'm just trying to figure out the true difference and value of the different options. I've toured STI plant and really like their products. Can you help me understand the true difference between Wilson, STI, Kimber, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, and Dan Wesson? I'm looking for true side by side comparison based on quality or maybe out of production products I've missed. There are so many good choices, and yet nothing is exactly what I want.

I want a 4 or 5 inch with fixed sights and no rail. I really like the melt/dehorning like on the Kimber CDP. I like less aggressive checkering, like on the front strap of the STI Ranger or none at all. I run smooth grips on my 1911 carry for example. The Les Baer Thunder Ranch/Custom Carry, Wilson CCO, and Dan Wesson Valor/CCO are some that I like a lot. It would be nice to have a bobbed frame and I think the weight saving of an alloy frame wouldn't be so bad.

I've researched and understand fully about the Kimber MIM parts, but I really love their products. Would it make financial sense to replace key MIM parts in a Kimber CDP?

How does the Dan Wesson compare with the others like Wilson, Brown, and Baer?

Does anyone take a Thunder Ranch and bob it?...would it be heresy?

Is the Wilson worth the extra money?...and why?

Should I just bite the bullet and have Nighthawk make exactly what I want?

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[Hezmana957]

When you start talking about the manufactures you are looking a lot come down to which feels the best in your hand and what features are important to you.

I have a Kimber CDP II Pro, which I like and an Ed Brown Kobra Kary that love. I also have an STI Guardian, but it had to go back shortly after purchase for work on the frame. It was repaired and I must say the STI has the smoothest slide to frame fit followed by the Brown and Kimber.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of then but I vote Ed Brown

 

[NinjaFeint]

I will only talk about what I know about.

I just bought a Dan Wesson Heritage RZ-45 a few weeks ago. It was the tightest and most highly praised gun that I could afford (without using a credit card), I have been nothing but pleased with it. It has digested every round put through it and made me look like a much better shooter than I am. Fit and finish is nice, minimal markings on the slide, and it feels (subjectively) worth the money and maybe worth more. I would recommend it to anyone. In fact, I may start saving for a Valor or V-bob.

My dad has a Kimber Pro CDP II which I have had a lot of experience with. While it is a nice gun, and about the same price, it just doesn't seem to be the same level as the Dan Wesson. He agrees with me too. Now before I get nailed by some Kimber enthusiast, this is just my opinion. I also know that the Pro CDP is more carry oriented and take that into consideration as well. I just think as far as shooting and fit, it's not as good.

I have shot a Wilson CQB and a Nighthawk Talon...they were both awesome. I don't know if for me they were awesome to the level of their price or more importantly if their additional awesomeness (I know) over my Dan Wesson would be a benefit to me (I am not an expert shooter) beyond the sexiness of them. Additionally, I will want to change some things about my gun at some point such as finish to make it mine and I can't see myself messing with a 2800-3200 dollar gun.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This was just on another forum asking about how the DW Valor compared. this was written by a very knowledgeable gunsmith, who is apprenticing under one of the Master's of the 1911.

Be aware that he is correctly comparing the Valor to the base models of the Big Four (Kimber isn't included) and not their $4k+ offerings

as someone who has actually worked on multiple pistols from Dan Wesson and all the other major semi-custom manufacturers I don't see enough of a difference to justify the extra cost either (at least for me). Fans of the major semi-custom guns who may or may not have actually seen a Dan Wesson (but probably in all likelihood haven't taken them apart and actually worked on every component and measured all the critical dimensions) seem to often nearly vehemently insist that there is no way they can be as good as guns from the "big 4" semi-custom manufacturers, but my personal opinion is that view is just wrong.
I feel on a technical level they are every bit the equal of the "stock" or "basic" models from the other referenced producers. The Valor series on a cosmetic execution level seems to me to be basically the equal of the "basic" models from those manufacturers. I'm using the word "stock" or "basic" because it definitely wouldn't be fair to compare a Dan Wesson production gun to something like a $5000 Wilson Supergrade which actually is a completely hand built full custom pistol; thats a whole different animal.
Granted, the Dan Wesson lineup has a very distinct "classic" style that doesn't work for everyone and isn't nearly as flashy as others or doesn't offer the variety of cosmetic options that you can get across the range of the others product lines so that has to be considered.

With all that said, I feel that in the areas of quality of components, fit, finish, and cosmetic execution the Valor series is every bit the equal of the "basic" models from any of the semi-custom manufacturers and objectively better than some. It is true that you get what you pay for; in this case the extra cost seems to me to come from a couple thing: 1) A premium for the name on the product and 2) the wider range of cosmetic options available across the other manufacturers product lines combined with the ability to customize minor features on most of their guns such as adding a magwell or possibly options in sights if you order directly. If neither of those things are something you need or perceive as having intrinsic value then you might not actually receive any perceived benefit from paying more for the other brands guns. I don't necessarily feel the other brands are too overpriced; I just think the Valor series is a really good deal.


I personally find the cosmetic and ergonomic features of the Dan Wesson to be extremely attractive as I am a big fan of classic styling (namely standard checkering, rear only serrations, and no billboard advertisements on my guns).
I realize that some people just have to have a snakeskin or chainlink treatment on their frontstraps or forward cocking serrations and are willing to pay a premium to get something they prefer, thats the beauty of a free marketplace.

If there was a big table in front of me full of semi-custom 1911s and someone told me to grab one and only one without assessing them all for fit or function and that I would have to now carry that gun and stake my life on it right out of the box; I would grab the Valor immediately without a second thought to anything else offered on the marketplace for production or semi-custom 1911s regardless of price or brand. That is just because I have seen or worked on enough Dan Wesson guns that I trust the methods in which they fit and assemble their guns and their "theory" in how they fit the major components and critical areas falls in line with how I have been trained to build them

.

 

[mongo4567]

That is awesome info guys, thank you!

 

[MikeRussell]

As the owner of a DW Pointman 7, I'll say this...
Shy of buying a custom Wilson, Baer, etc...it's one of the nicest 1911s you will get. Accuracy is crazy, mine wasn't even fully broken in & was managing sub 2in groups at 25yrds with factory ammo from the bench (not a rest or vice, just shooting seated at the bench). I see no reason to spend outrageous money on a pistol when I can get everything I want/need in a DW. I've actually been looking for what others deem high quality (such as a Springer TRP or the like) to use as a plinker so I don't run up the round count on my PM7.

 

[ichiban]

I'm not an expert, not even an internet expert, so take this for what it is worth. When I was looking for a SS bobtail commander I was able to compare a EB Kobra Carry and a DW VBOB side by side. I could not see an appreciable difference between the two, and certainly nothing to justify $1000.00 more for the EB other than the name. I ended up with the VBOB and I just love everything about that gun.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

The difference between a Dan Wesson and a Baer, Ed Brown, or Wilson is in the features and the amount of hand fitting. The Dan Wesson models are built one way, to one set of design features. When you order a semi-custom gun you can add or delete things from the gun. If you want a gold bead front sight with an adjustable rear sight - you can have that. Fiber optic front sight, tritium front sight - your choice.

Basically, you add or subtract features from a list of options. Some manufacturers (Wilson) will do things that are not on the list, others (Baer) won't.

Then there are designs that are unique to a manufacturer like Baer's Monolith or Monolith Heavyweight. From experience, I can tell you that the Monolith Heavyweight shoots differently from the standard 1911 design specifically because of the extra weight along the centerline of the slide. Is it worth the cost? That's a value judgement everyone has to make on their own.

 

[918v]

One thing that is missing from this discussion is metallurgy. Google "peening" in relation to these name brands amd make sure you don't end up with something like this:




I have owned three Baers, a Wilson CQB, two Colts, and five Springers- two of which were custom shop guns, and can honestly say that the Wilson, Colts, and Springers don't peen. Oh, people will tell you that peening is normal and self-limiting. Why isn't a lack of peening the norm? Or is it?

 

[IAmNightMan]

One other possibility in your stated price range is Fusion Firearms. It is run by the former owner of Dan Wesson (before they sold to CZ) and is a semi-custom 1911 shop.
You specify what you want and they build it: caliber, finish, sights, safeties, checkering, etc. They carry and use many STI parts, but i believe they will use whatever you request. There is a wait time while the pistol is built however. I have heard of possible QC issues on some pistols, but only in passing on various fora.
I will say my personal Fusion pistol is fit tightly, operates very smooth, and has not had any malfunctions in any of the 600+ rounds i have fired though it.

 

[NinjaFeint]

Fusions are very sexy, I stayed away due to the wait and the amount of QC issues I read in the Fusion subforum of a popular 1911 forum. Since they don't produce a lot of pistols, running into a bunch of stories of people having issues turned me off.

Glad to hear everything went well with your's IAmNightMan.

 

[Quack]

One other possibility in your stated price range is Fusion Firearms. It is run by the former owner of Dan Wesson (before they sold to CZ) and is a semi-custom 1911 shop.

before he sold Dan Wesson it to CZ, the quality was crap. I have a friend that has a Pre-CZ DW that has been back quite a few times to Bob Serva and it still doesn't run 100%.

I've also seen people get things that they didn't specify on a Fusion build, but Bob seemed to add them anyway.

As Forest Gump says "Fusion is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get."